[Turnover]

Hello, everyone! First, let me say that this is an amazing community. I've only spent about thirty minutes perusing the forum but I've already learned a huge amount about the UK university system. Wonderful website!

I was referred to this forum by a poster on the College Confidential forum. I recently joined that forum and wrote a post describing my situation. I'm going to copy and paste the body of my post here:

I graduated in May with a Bachelor of Arts degree from a public university here in the United States (I imagine it goes without saying, but I am an American citizen). I couldn't decide what I wanted to do with my life during college and tried a number of different majors. I eventually ended up graduating after five years with a somewhat silly humanities degree. To quote Malcolm Gladwell, my undergraduate studies were not "intellectually fruitful" and I left with just over a 3.1 GPA. Because of this, I suspect my options for any sort of degree program are quite slim but I still have hope of being admitted somewhere. Anyway, after actively searching since January, I've been unable to secure employment with my (admittedly pretty useless) low GPA degree. At this point, I think my only option is to go back to school and complete a serious/real degree.

Now to the point of this post!

I'm interested in perhaps doing my next degree abroad. Why, you ask? Well, honestly, I'd just like a change. I'd also like to live in a different culture for a while. I've traveled enough to realize that there is more to the world than just the United States and I'd like to experience it for a bit, while also helping my professional future.

So far, I've only looked at studying in the United Kingdom. I've discovered that the British higher education system is quite different than the American system. Degree programs appear to be much more specialized and I still can't wrap my head around the UK degree classification scheme (first class, second class, etc. - Is there a standardized conversion to an American GPA?). How much would one expect to spend for total expenses (tuition, cost of living, everything) per year of study? If I applied for an undergraduate program, would I have to take some sort of test (like the US SAT) or would having a previous bachelor degree suffice?

As I said before, I have a pretty scary college transcript. There are an unfortunate number of Fs and Ds and there is obviously nothing I can do about that now. So the probability of even being admitted to another program is slim. That won't stop me from applying, though. Always stay positive!

Any information you can provide me would be super helpful. Thanks!

I'm interested in pursuing a degree in mathematics, statistics, civil engineering, or industrial engineering. I'm just at the beginning of my college search so I haven't identified any specific universities yet. Do any of you have recommendations on which programs to look at?

I was told by a posted on College Confidential that the UCAS system only allows an applicant to apply to five programs in total. Realizing that I will almost certainly face an uphill battle with the admissions game, it will be incredibly important to choose three or four programs that I stand a very good chance of being admitted to and one or two "reach" schools. Any advice you have on that would be very much appreciated.

Anyway, thank you for reading and I look forward to reading your responses!

[Azland]

(Original post by Turnover)
Hello, everyone! First, let me say that this is an amazing community. I've only spent about thirty minutes perusing the forum but I've already learned a huge amount about the UK university system. Wonderful website!

I was referred to this forum by a poster on the College Confidential forum. I recently joined that forum and wrote a post describing my situation. I'm going to copy and paste the body of my post here:



I'm interested in pursuing a degree in mathematics, statistics, civil engineering, or industrial engineering. I'm just at the beginning of my college search so I haven't identified any specific universities yet. Do any of you have recommendations on which programs to look at?

I was told by a posted on College Confidential that the UCAS system only allows an applicant to apply to five programs in total. Realizing that I will almost certainly face an uphill battle with the admissions game, it will be incredibly important to choose three or four programs that I stand a very good chance of being admitted to and one or two "reach" schools. Any advice you have on that would be very much appreciated.

Anyway, thank you for reading and I look forward to reading your responses!

There's no exact conversion and it generally depends from university to university to consider what a GPA from xxx means to them.

Warwick for example has this :

A CGPA of 3.3 - 3.5 in an honors programme, with a minimum of 3.5 in degree relevant subjects, is considered comparable to a 2:1 (Upper Second Class Honours), while a score of 50% or C or 3.0 is considered comparable to a UK 2.2 for entry onto Masters programmes. Evidence of research papers completed will also be welcome. Typically students from a US degree programme will normally not be eligible for direct entry to our PhD programmes without a Masters qualification.


You would not need to take any test if your trying for undergraduate. A previous bachelor will be fine but if your applying to top ones you'll really have to win them over in your personal statement and explain why you didnt do well before and why you think you will now etc.

In all honesty try for which course your comfortable with. You'll be competing for places against high school students who are very passionate about their course for the last 3-4 years in some cases.


Also, you cant apply for different programs. Well you can but your personal statement will be the same for everyone so there's no point writing one about math and stats and applying to engineering.

Sorry, cant help you much with tuition and reach schools but I do know that its way cheaper then in the U.S, even for Internationals.

[PQ]

Because our degrees are more specialised university admissions are more interested in your grades in subjects relevent to your proposed degree rather than overall achievement. For Maths/Engineering you'd have to demonstrate mathematical ability/knowledge at the same level as our Mathematics A level (the revision guides might help in figuring out if you can show this). If you didn't already have an undergrad degree then most UK universities would ask for APs in relevent subjects for entry (the SAT is considered not suitable).

If demonstrating this from your current academic record isn't possible then depending on your budget then some universities offer foundation years to cover the mathematical/scientific basics needed for engineering degrees.

In terms of costs http://international.studentcalculator.org.uk/ is worth a look.

UK international fees don't vary much - so for the best UK universities it's much cheaper than the best USA universities - but in comparison to studying at a state college it will be much more expensive.

Also http://www.educationuk.org/ is a site maintained by the British Council to help international students find their way into and around the UK HE system and so has all sorts of info that might be useful.

It might also be worth having a look into Masters courses or "accelerated" undergraduate degrees (for people with a degree already in another subject) - that could save you a year or two in costs with the same result at the end

[DCDude]

Fwiw, it doesn't sound as if you are ready to do a masters yet, and 2 undergraduate degrees is not going to be much better in your job hunt than 1. Consider looking at the descriptions of the courses that you mentioned in your 1st post, at unis such as st. Andrews and Manchester (as mid-level, relatively known examples). Pick out one or two specific courses that sound really interesting to you, that have a 1 year masters (taught or research). Then, circle back and look for * any * kind of work opportunity in a big-name firm that is in that area or field and take it. Work for 2-3 years (ideally getting promoted along the way!), then apply for the masters. Your experience will trump your undergrad marks and you will be able to write a compelling essay about why you are suited for that field. I know, you are thinking that the whole point is that you were having trouble finding a job! But if you narrow your search to companies in the field that you would do the masters in, you will look deeper and harder and with more conviction and are thus more likely to find something. And if you can't narrow it that much, you really aren't ready to do graduate work yet....

[Turnover]

Thank you all for responding to my post. I really appreciate your helpful advice.

Because of the unique process of applying to college through UCAS, I've (nearly) decided to pursue civil engineering. While I have a strong interest in studying mathematics, it seems to make more financial sense to get a degree(s) in civil engineering. I haven't made my final choice yet, though. I hope to get my applications sent in by the end of the month.

One aspect of this that is making my search difficult is the lack of admissions data at some universities. As an American, my knowledge of the British higher education system is quite limited. Because I'm an outsider it's difficult for me to gauge which schools I have a legitimate shot at being admitted to. I've tried to rectify this by reviewing admissions statistics from the schools I'm interested in. I've had a difficult time finding important numbers at some schools (some schools seem to release much more information than others).

For example, I've been unable to find admissions numbers for the University of Aberdeen. They have a program that looks interested and I might like to apply. However, I've no idea what their standards are. They could be the MIT of the United Kingdom for all I know (and, as such, a waste of my time to apply - I know I'd never be admitted).

I've also reviewing several university ranking tables but I've been told by other people that in the UK, these are fairly meaningless rankings. I'm a bit confused at how I should proceed.

Anyway, I'll post more about my search later. Thanks again!

[jeh_jeh]

(Original post by Turnover)
Thank you all for responding to my post. I really appreciate your helpful advice.

Because of the unique process of applying to college through UCAS, I've (nearly) decided to pursue civil engineering. While I have a strong interest in studying mathematics, it seems to make more financial sense to get a degree(s) in civil engineering. I haven't made my final choice yet, though. I hope to get my applications sent in by the end of the month.

One aspect of this that is making my search difficult is the lack of admissions data at some universities. As an American, my knowledge of the British higher education system is quite limited. Because I'm an outsider it's difficult for me to gauge which schools I have a legitimate shot at being admitted to. I've tried to rectify this by reviewing admissions statistics from the schools I'm interested in. I've had a difficult time finding important numbers at some schools (some schools seem to release much more information than others).

For example, I've been unable to find admissions numbers for the University of Aberdeen. They have a program that looks interested and I might like to apply. However, I've no idea what their standards are. They could be the MIT of the United Kingdom for all I know (and, as such, a waste of my time to apply - I know I'd never be admitted).

I've also reviewing several university ranking tables but I've been told by other people that in the UK, these are fairly meaningless rankings. I'm a bit confused at how I should proceed.

Anyway, I'll post more about my search later. Thanks again!

I really, really, really wouldn't bother doing a second undergraduate degree. Like DCDude points out, your profile will look so much better if you can just find some relevant work experience (even if it's unpaid) for a couple of years and then come back and do a postgraduate course in the UK.

[DCDude]

(Original post by Turnover)
Thank you all for responding to my post. I really appreciate your helpful advice.

Because of the unique process of applying to college through UCAS, I've (nearly) decided to pursue civil engineering. While I have a strong interest in studying mathematics, it seems to make more financial sense to get a degree(s) in civil engineering. I haven't made my final choice yet, though. I hope to get my applications sent in by the end of the month.

One aspect of this that is making my search difficult is the lack of admissions data at some universities. As an American, my knowledge of the British higher education system is quite limited. Because I'm an outsider it's difficult for me to gauge which schools I have a legitimate shot at being admitted to. I've tried to rectify this by reviewing admissions statistics from the schools I'm interested in. I've had a difficult time finding important numbers at some schools (some schools seem to release much more information than others).

For example, I've been unable to find admissions numbers for the University of Aberdeen. They have a program that looks interested and I might like to apply. However, I've no idea what their standards are. They could be the MIT of the United Kingdom for all I know (and, as such, a waste of my time to apply - I know I'd never be admitted).

I've also reviewing several university ranking tables but I've been told by other people that in the UK, these are fairly meaningless rankings. I'm a bit confused at how I should proceed.

Anyway, I'll post more about my search later. Thanks again!

If the uni doesn't post admissions requirements for international students you can get a rough approximation by look at the A-level requirements. For example, using Aberdeen as an example:

http://www.abdn.ac.uk/prospectus/ugr...ineering_rates

General certificate of Education

Degree of MEng
3 A Levels at BBB, B in Mathematics and in Physics or a B in Design and Technology or a B in Engineering.
GCSE English at C.
Degree of BEng
3 A Levels at BBB, B in Mathematics and in Physics or a B in Design and Technology or a B in Engineering.
GCSE English at C.


Suggests that APs in Math, Physics and Perhaps English, with scores of 4 would put you in a good way. As a rule of thumb, an A level of B more or less equates to a 4 on an AP; an A to a 5. Because there are no design or engineering tests, doing the SAT subject test in physics as well would probably help.

I assume that you have already gleaned this from reading around TSR, but in case you haven't you should be aware that the majority of UK unis won't even want to see your transcript unless you are applying to a graduate course. For undergrads what matters are national tests (APs, SATs, ACTs, Subject tests), plus your personal statement and recommendations.

Also, if you are over 21 when you apply, you may be considered a "mature" student- at Aberdeen 20% are considered "mature".

Finally, as an international student you will pay higher fees, and if you meet the stated requirements, have a good rec, and have a good PS, you have a very good chance of getting in.

Hope that helps!

[brendayissel]

(Original post by Turnover)
Thank you all for responding to my post. I really appreciate your helpful advice.

Because of the unique process of applying to college through UCAS, I've (nearly) decided to pursue civil engineering. While I have a strong interest in studying mathematics, it seems to make more financial sense to get a degree(s) in civil engineering. I haven't made my final choice yet, though. I hope to get my applications sent in by the end of the month.

One aspect of this that is making my search difficult is the lack of admissions data at some universities. As an American, my knowledge of the British higher education system is quite limited. Because I'm an outsider it's difficult for me to gauge which schools I have a legitimate shot at being admitted to. I've tried to rectify this by reviewing admissions statistics from the schools I'm interested in. I've had a difficult time finding important numbers at some schools (some schools seem to release much more information than others).

For example, I've been unable to find admissions numbers for the University of Aberdeen. They have a program that looks interested and I might like to apply. However, I've no idea what their standards are. They could be the MIT of the United Kingdom for all I know (and, as such, a waste of my time to apply - I know I'd never be admitted).

I've also reviewing several university ranking tables but I've been told by other people that in the UK, these are fairly meaningless rankings. I'm a bit confused at how I should proceed.

Anyway, I'll post more about my search later. Thanks again!

if anything you could try contacting the universities for more information(: im really in the same boat as you though. i feel extremely overwhelmed but i've found several universities worth looking at. btw, were you in any IB or Ap classes? (that could help you meet entry requirements for some unis)

[Turnover]

I attended a hybrid private school which did not offer AP/IB courses. So no, I didn't take any of those courses in high school. However, I took ~145 credits in college the first go around. Would that be sufficient?

If not, I've no problem retaking the SAT or any other such tests I'd need to take. I'm not sure how AP or IB exams work. Can one register to take the exams at any time?

[Turnover]

(Original post by brendayissel)
if anything you could try contacting the universities for more information(: im really in the same boat as you though. i feel extremely overwhelmed but i've found several universities worth looking at. btw, were you in any IB or Ap classes? (that could help you meet entry requirements for some unis)

Overwhelmed - that's the perfect word for how I'm feeling as well. They're really quite different; the US and UK higher education systems.

I'm probably going to compose some e-mails this weekend to a couple of institutions. If/when they write back to me, I'll be sure to let you know what they say.

[brendayissel]

(Original post by Turnover)
I attended a hybrid private school which did not offer AP/IB courses. So no, I didn't take any of those courses in high school. However, I took ~145 credits in college the first go around. Would that be sufficient?

If not, I've no problem retaking the SAT or any other such tests I'd need to take. I'm not sure how AP or IB exams work. Can one register to take the exams at any time?

i dont think so, in order to take any of the IB exams, you should have gone to a school that offered them. but i have heard of students self-teaching themselves for ap exams, however im not really all that informed on the details of it.

[Turnover]

I'll have to look into it. I doubt an AP exam would be that difficult for me considering I completed ~145 credits. That's through the College Board, I think...I'll look into it.

[brendayissel]

(Original post by Turnover)
I'll have to look into it. I doubt an AP exam would be that difficult for me considering I completed ~145 credits. That's through the College Board, I think...I'll look into it.

lol it just depends on what subject your doing. btw, i see your from america, what state? (:

[Turnover]

Yep, I'm American. I'm from Virginia.

[gm15]

(Original post by Turnover)
For example, I've been unable to find admissions numbers for the University of Aberdeen. They have a program that looks interested and I might like to apply. However, I've no idea what their standards are. They could be the MIT of the United Kingdom

I very much doubt aberdeen is at MIT level!
Also what were your high school grades/end results like?


This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my U20i

[Turnover]

I just noticed I made a typo there. Obviously, I meant 'interesting' and not 'interested.' I was rushed when I wrote that. Please forgive me!

Ah, high school...I don't actually know. I know I did well; I don't remember my GPA though. I could call my parents and see if they have a copy of my high school transcript in their files (those people keep everything, I tell you - everything!).

[Podcaster]

(Original post by Turnover)
I'm just at the beginning of my college university search so I haven't identified any specific universities yet. Do any of you have recommendations on which programs courses to look at?

I was told by a posted on College Confidential that the UCAS system only allows an applicant to apply to five programs courses in total. Realizing that I will almost certainly face an uphill battle with the admissions game, it will be incredibly important to choose three or four programs courses that I stand a very good chance of being admitted to

haha welcome to the UK! (when you move here)

(Original post by Turnover)
and one or two "reach" schools.

This is an interesting phrase. I cannot easily translate it to British English. Closest I could get was "If I get lucky university"

[Warrior Queen]

I wouldn't waste time on another undergraduate degree. I'm sure you have a lot of transferable skills which is what it's mostly about. If I were you, I would come to the UK to do a one year Master's degree in your chosen subject. You almost certainly will get in to a university with your grades and there is no limit to the amount of universities you can apply to, as they all have their own system for masters courses. So why not apply to 20 for masters degrees in engineering? Just make sure your reasons for applying are solid (why engineering, what will you do in the future, why that uni, etc....) and that you are committed to developing academically

[brendayissel]

(Original post by Turnover)
Yep, I'm American. I'm from Virginia.

lol oh how cool. im from california

[Turnover]

(Original post by brendayissel)
lol oh how cool. im from california

Right on! Are you looking at applying for 2013 admission? I assume you're also looking to do a second degree, yes?