[Vanadesse]

I've got a Ford KA and at the moment it's proving to be a bit of a bastard! Trying to work out what's wrong with it but struggling.

So, here's the problem...

When I go to start the car for the first time that day it starts fine but will misfire (or at least I think this is classed as misfire?) in that for the first few minutes the revs will dip, go back to normal, dip, back to normal etc but that'll stop after a few minutes if I'm moving but if stopped at lights the car will cut out unless I put my foot on the accelerator a bit. The misfiring has happened a fair few times but it's only actually cut out once as all the other times I've been driving and not had to stop at lights to start with.

The other part of the problem... if I drive and then park up for an hour or two, when I get back in the car it struggles to start, seriously struggles. To the point where I have to keep pumping the accelerator to the floor quickly whilst trying to start it. It can take 4 or 5 goes to get it going, by which point it's flooded with petrol and stinks. This only happens after I've been parked an hour or two though, never on first drive or later on.

Thought it could be the spark plugs but I've just taken them all out to check and they're absolutely fine, not worn or showing signs of any fault at all. Any other thoughts about what it might be? The mechanics at the garage seemed a bit confused about what it could be but I'm taking it in on Friday morning for them to try and diagnosis the problem but would be good if anyone might be able to suggest anything else it could be.

[cid]

Sounds like a nightmare job

Erm, obviously over the internet diagnosis would be hard, it was never my strong point anyway and i always tend to imagine the worst fault possible when its usually something simple.

Do you have black smoke coming from your exhaust? It would indicate fuel not being burnt in the engines cylinders which would back up suspicions of cylinders not firing. If it is the case it could be a number of things, from a simple valve mistiming to a problem with your distributor.

What you describe about your revs ... sounds a bit like engine hunting, i don't know how common it is in large vehicle engines, but I've seen it a few times in small 2 stroke engines, it usually requires a little carburetor adjustment.

But even if you knew yourself what the fault was and told the garage, they would still run their own diagnosis, not to screw you out of money ... well not purely to screw you out of money But also so they are sure of the problem before they start trying to fix a fault that isn't actually there.


I had a similar problem with a JCB regarding the starting problem, the fault was simply fuel flow being blocked by debris in the fuel lines, it meant i had to manual prime the fuel system ( don't thin that's an option on commercial car lol) every time i needed to start it, until i had the time to drain the fuel and clear the fuel lines.

I would suspect the fuel system to be the culprit here... maybe I er ...didn't actually finish my apprenticeship *cough* ehm

[Vanadesse]

Nope, no black exhaust.

Yeah it is engine hunting, couldn't remember that phrase though lol

I thought about a fuel related problem too but obviously can't really check that myself. Depending on what the fault is, I may be able to get it fixed without going to the garage. They've said they won't charge me to diagnose the fault (said that depending on cost, getting it fixed might have to wait until after pay day) but I don't want to get them to diagnose it and then go fix it myself, seems cheeky!

[cid]

Okay, if you have engine hunting and no black fuel, trouble starting, it could, could be a low fuel mix in the cylinders, which would be a carburetor adjustment.


Apparently a common fault with KA's is the Idler control valve, some of the symptoms sound similar to yours.


http://www.kaklub.co.uk/pwpcontrol.php?pwpID=1898

[Vanadesse]

That's one of the few ideas that the mechanics came up with as a possible reason actually, the idle control. Looks like it's going to be a leave it to the mechanics job then. Shame as I do try to avoid them as much as possible!

[CurlyBen]

When I first read your post the first thing that came to mind was the idle air control valve (IACV), probably sticking rather than complete failure. I doubt it will be related to your starting issues, but an easy way to check if it's an IACV issue is to see if it stops with a tiny bit of throttle. The throttle butterfly can completely shut on a modern car, which means no air to the engine. To allow the engine to keep running the IACV bypasses the throttle butterfly to allow some air through. If you put your foot on the throttle to open the butterfly just a little bit it should settle down. If that does solve the problem, the IACV is normally only needs two bolts removing and a plug disconnecting, then you can take it off and clean it with a bit of WD40 or carb cleaner. Also worth checking for any sensors unplugged or loose hoses, which can cause the same problems as the ECU doesn't know what's going on and where the IACV needs to be. My old 306 had just this problem when the MAP sensor hose came loose.

[Lee_831]

Hi,
Sorry to hear about your problems, the old Ka engine is usually quite a solid and reliable unit.
I'm assuming that yours is the 1.3i, which is the 'old shape' car upto about 2004 I think.

These sorts of problem can be a pain to find. Especially if no engine warning light is triggered.

The simple things which this could be are most likely the ignition coil unit (There is no distributor on the Ka), which can cause misfiring, rough running and can also be temperature dependant.
Possibly the idle speed regulator valve, as mentioned above. It is worth getting this checked and cleaned regardless as they have a tendency to stick, especially if the car has not been serviced for a while.
Possibly the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve, which can cause big problems on all cars they are fitted to.
More serious concerns could be a blown head gasket causing low compression, although you would notice oil in coolant etc if this was the case.

When this problem is sorted, if you intend to keep the car for any length of time then it is important that the service schedule is kept up. These old engines sludge up very easily which cause all sorts of running and engine management problems.
Hope this helps.

[oasis12]

firstly if you havnt already changed your airfilter or check ur intakes for blockages it could also be a seal away that is causing lack of pressure in the engine could also be the exhaust or electrics dont jump to conclusions though always do the cheapest things first it could be something simple and just go from there

[Vanadesse]

Thanks for the replies. Going to go and buy new spark plugs and an air filter and change those this afternoon. The plugs look fine but they're old, I haven't changed them since buying the car and I've done about 18k in it, who knows how long they were in there before that so although there's no fault, they could just be old and needing replacing. If that doesn't sort the problem then I'll be taking the car to the garage tomorrow. Don't think that it's the idle control but could be, hopefully they'll manage to work it out if I don't sort it with the new plugs and filter. Whatever happens I'll post the solution (once it's found!) so that if others have the same problem and find this thread, they'll have what the solution was.

[Vanadesse]

Quick update.

Changed the spark plugs. When I checked them last week there were two that I couldn't get out, too tight, taken them out and they were actually really worn. Air filter, well, dirty doesn't even begin to cover it. So new air filter and new spark plugs, cost £1.46 for each spark plug and about £3 for the air filter, plus VAT, so hopefully that'll be it fixed as it's not cost much and took about 40 minutes max. As it's only happened every so often I'm going to have to wait and see what happens now.

[lbsf1]

If those don't fix it then it will be a fuel problem (or more complex, however on a small engine that is unlikely.)

A tip for everyone who ever works on simple engines. If you have a spark, air and fuel then it will run in some way, maybe not smooth but it will run. I have used this principle in karting and have never missed a heat or final due to engine starting problems.

[Vanadesse]

(Original post by cid)
Sounds like a nightmare job

(Original post by CurlyBen)
When I first read your post the first thing that came to mind was the idle air control valve (IACV)

(Original post by Lee_831)
Hi,
Sorry to hear about your problems, the old Ka engine is usually quite a solid and reliable unit.

(Original post by oasis12)
firstly if you havnt already changed your airfilter or check ur intakes for blockages

(Original post by lbsf1)
If those don't fix it then it will be a fuel problem (or more complex, however on a small engine that is unlikely.)

Final update as the car is FINALLY fixed! *insert happy face here* I changed the spark plugs and air filter, which looking at them obviously needed changing but it didn't fix the misfiring or the refusing to start so it went to the garage. The mechanic had a look at it and there was a split pipe that needed replacing, think it was the vacuum hose for the air filter. That fixed the misfiring but it still had issues starting - go figure, two separate problems! Computer said that there was an issue with the coolant sensor, obviously if a car is too hot or too cold it won't start and as my car thought that it was -40 degrees, it was refusing to play ball. Both parts and labour cost me £37, which is pretty cheap according to my mechanic brother so it's worked out pretty well.

Interestingly, on a different note, the guy said that my engine isn't the engine that should be in my car as all the wiring is different to what it should be for my year and model so at some point it's been replaced with a slightly newer or older engine. Not related but I thought it was interesting.

Thanks for all the help and advice, hopefully if anyone else is having the same problems they'll know what things to check.