[Podcaster]

(Original post by B2345)
@SillyEddy - 'Well just be sensible and things like the aforementioned won't occur. The guy tried to undertake the bus and lost. He ran the lights and it cost him.' I knew Dan Harris and reading posts like yours make me sick, you clearly don't know much abut this accident and yet you decide to post a ridiculous uninformed opinion.

Dan was an experienced cyclist who followed the rules of the road strictly, he did not run red lights, yes he may have made a mistake going inside of the bus but I don't think the cost of that should be a death sentence but clearly you do. Cold and callous comments like yours and Harry Puta's make me very sad, this is a man's life you are talking about a wonderful man at that. Read some of the news articles and you can see for yourself the things I have said he even tweeted last week about booing cyclists who ran red lights!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...d-8000839.html
http://www.standard.co.uk/olympics/o...s-7999398.html
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/36...bus-social.htm

Ironically if he had run the light he would have lived. But that would have been unnecessary had he not foolishly waited in the blind spot of a bus. As I said before why cant cyclists ever just wait behind in lane? Don't pull the insensitivity card. If it was the cyclists fault we are going to say it's the cyclists fault. it's not as if I'm an obnoxious cyclist hating motorist either. I cycle a lot but i see people undertaking cars at junctions so many times I feel sorry for the poor motorists. I feel sorry because as I always get in lane and stop behind a vehicle at lights, other cyclists tend to go past me on my left. Even I not inside a metal box with full freedom of view don't see, notice or hear the cyclist passing me until the they have finished passing me. I can only imagine how much more of a shock it is to be in a bus about to turn left when a silent little cyclist appears out of nowhere. I am not an arrogant cyclist thinking I'm the world's safest cyclist. Of course everyone makes mistakes and you can be as safe as possible and still get run over by a bad driver. However i do have some evidence that motorists tend to prefer my method of "riding like a car" 1) I haven't been beeped by a car for over 2 years 2) I was riding in lane with the cars down Seven Sisters Road once when I heard beeping behind me. At the lights I went up to the offending car and entered into a tirade that I was doing the speed limit in lane not holding up traffic so whats the problem. He then meekly said he wasn't beeping me but some other cyclists weaving around him. He said that I was infact "fast, faster than all the other idiots" I apologised for getting angry and went on my way. This was a white van man. How often do you get a white van man to praise someones driving let alone cycling?

[Kibalchich]

(Original post by snowyowl)
Using an online converter, I'm told 25kmph = 15mph.

Can you explain to me how going at 15mph on the pavement, where all other 'traffic' will either be pedestrians (going much slower) or other cyclists, is "**** scary" and therefore shouldn't be done... yet cycling on the main roads, where the traffic will be going at 60/70mph on most roads, is absolutely fine?

Cyclists don't tend to cycle on motorways or fast A roads.

[snowyowl]

(Original post by Kibalchich)
Cyclists don't tend to cycle on motorways or fast A roads.

Perhaps it's just because I live in MK then. Almost every road to get around MK here is a 60/70mph speed limit. You may know of our grid roads and roundabout system - most roads between roundabouts have a limit of 60, and those that don't are 70.


I saw 2 other people quoted me - I will reply when I get back to a computer, my phone hates TSR for some reason!

[B2345]

(Original post by Podcaster)
Ironically if he had run the light he would have lived. But that would have been unnecessary had he not foolishly waited in the blind spot of a bus. As I said before why cant cyclists ever just wait behind in lane? Don't pull the insensitivity card. If it was the cyclists fault we are going to say it's the cyclists fault. it's not as if I'm an obnoxious cyclist hating motorist either. I cycle a lot but i see people undertaking cars at junctions so many times I feel sorry for the poor motorists. I feel sorry because as I always get in lane and stop behind a vehicle at lights, other cyclists tend to go past me on my left. Even I not inside a metal box with full freedom of view don't see, notice or hear the cyclist passing me until the they have finished passing me. I can only imagine how much more of a shock it is to be in a bus about to turn left when a silent little cyclist appears out of nowhere. I am not an arrogant cyclist thinking I'm the world's safest cyclist. Of course everyone makes mistakes and you can be as safe as possible and still get run over by a bad driver. However i do have some evidence that motorists tend to prefer my method of "riding like a car" 1) I haven't been beeped by a car for over 2 years 2) I was riding in lane with the cars down Seven Sisters Road once when I heard beeping behind me. At the lights I went up to the offending car and entered into a tirade that I was doing the speed limit in lane not holding up traffic so whats the problem. He then meekly said he wasn't beeping me but some other cyclists weaving around him. He said that I was infact "fast, faster than all the other idiots" I apologised for getting angry and went on my way. This was a white van man. How often do you get a white van man to praise someones driving let alone cycling?

Why did you feel the need to post this to me when it doesn't really have anything to do with my post?! To tell me how 'foolish' my friend is? My problem was with the horrible way he decided to go about making his point and now you have done the same thing in a less obvious way, I was not trying to get in to a debate about the way people should cycle on the roads, I DID NOT say that it was not his mistake even though the bus driver was arrested for dangerous driving which makes your whole sentence of 'Don't pull the insensitivity card. If it was the cyclists fault we are going to say it's the cyclists fault.' completely irrelevant. Neither of us know exactly what happened in this instance all I know is that this topic was opened with people saying how sad this story was which I thought was really nice and it turned in to certain people making horrible comments about him being an idiot and he deserved it etc.

[moonkatt]

(Original post by snowyowl)
Perhaps it's just because I live in MK then. Almost every road to get around MK here is a 60/70mph speed limit. You may know of our grid roads and roundabout system - most roads between roundabouts have a limit of 60, and those that don't are 70.


I saw 2 other people quoted me - I will reply when I get back to a computer, my phone hates TSR for some reason!

Milton Keynes is different compared to most other places. Built up areas usually have a speed limit of 30 to 40 mph.

[Podcaster]

(Original post by B2345)
Why did you feel the need to post this to me when it doesn't really have anything to do with my post?! To tell me how 'foolish' my friend is? My problem was with the horrible way he decided to go about making his point and now you have done the same thing in a less obvious way, I was not trying to get in to a debate about the way people should cycle on the roads, I DID NOT say that it was not his mistake even though the bus driver was arrested for dangerous driving which makes your whole sentence of 'Don't pull the insensitivity card. If it was the cyclists fault we are going to say it's the cyclists fault.' completely irrelevant. Neither of us know exactly what happened in this instance all I know is that this topic was opened with people saying how sad this story was which I thought was really nice and it turned in to certain people making horrible comments about him being an idiot and he deserved it etc.

See here you go playing the insensitivity card.

1) I never said he deserved it
2) whether it was the drivers fault or not someone died so he would get arrested and taken for questioning. Arrested =/= guilty.
3)Don't pull the 'nobody knows exactly what happened card' either. only one way he could have ended up under the bus as it turned left - if he was in the buses blindspot at the junction.

I know you are sad about the loss of your friend but you must not try and silence others who are pointing out his mistakes for this will only lead to many more cyclists making the same mistakes and falling to the same fate.

[RibenaRockstar]

(Original post by AlexInWonderland)
I read that on roads, drivers are more inclined to give room when overtaking to those not wearing a helmet; aparantly they subconsciously expect people wearing a helmet to ride in a less erratic manner.
The funniest part of the article was when the guy doing the experiment wore a wig to look like a woman, drivers also gave him more room. Let's not read too much into that, eh?

On a light hearted note, the solution to this dilemma may have been solved on Only Fools and Horses. Del once tried to make a helmet with a turban on it so Sikhs could use the road safely. If we all did this, drivers would think we were just wearing a turban and give us room!

The article again raises the danger of ill-maintained gutters on roads, where there are usually pot holes. A few weeks ago, my dad was cycling on an empty road and hit a pothole he didn't notice. Even at low speeds, this crash cause road rash down his arm and leg. The arm ended up with a small stone embedded in which required a trip to A&E. The infection of this meant taking very strong drugs and a week off work.
Imagine if this happened while a car is in the middle of an overtaking maneuvere!
This is why I think maintaining the edge of roads is an important step. It would allow cars more room to overtake and would make cycling safer and more comfortable (especially for those of us on road bikes!).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm

On the turban helmet topic, there is a company who make bike helmets that look like fashion hats. Can't remember who they are though.

I agree WRT maintenance of the road edge - the main road through my town used to have an awful surface on its hill, so much so that you expended more energy and concentration on negotiating the surface than the hill - now there's a lovely smooth Tarmac right to the pavement so I can concentrate on zooming up the shallow hill.

Today a ****er car (Audi/ Beamer) decided that as we were both turning left on the same junction he'd overtake me while making the turn. Prick.

[Studentus-anonymous]

(Original post by HeatherHatter)
Cyclists shouldn't be on the pavements, for the simple reason of it being illegal- check the highway code.

1. A widely ignored and unenforced law.

2. A law in and of itself does not make itself right. I see cyclists as wheeled pedestrians, and in any given situation accidents between cyclists and pedestrians are much more survivable and less traumatic than a cyclist trying to fight over a piece of road with a multi-ton vehicle.

Whether careless drivers are in the wrong is pointless, pedestrians are still taught to be vigilant as hell when on any given road space because end of the day soft squishy humans can't trump hard crushy vehicles.

You might think you're superhuman for being fit, saving the environment, whatever, but a cyclist is still at the end of the day fragile and vulnerable.

[Kibalchich]

Which is why car drivers need to be educated to let cyclists take the lane and to not cut us up.

[HeatherHatter]

(Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
1. A widely ignored and unenforced law.

2. A law in and of itself does not make itself right. I see cyclists as wheeled pedestrians, and in any given situation accidents between cyclists and pedestrians are much more survivable and less traumatic than a cyclist trying to fight over a piece of road with a multi-ton vehicle.

Whether careless drivers are in the wrong is pointless, pedestrians are still taught to be vigilant as hell when on any given road space because end of the day soft squishy humans can't trump hard crushy vehicles.

You might think you're superhuman for being fit, saving the environment, whatever, but a cyclist is still at the end of the day fragile and vulnerable.

I don't know about where you live, but where I am the pavement is in no fit state to cycle along. After all the snow a couple of years ago, it is still in a pretty bad state and there are bits sticking up all over the place. When you're cycling at 25km/h down the pavement and hit a bit of tree root or something, you're likely to fall off- I've seen it happen. Plus, I live in a town that has a lot of tourists visiting and a lot of OAPs and children who walk painfully slowly and take up a lot of the pavement. In some places, the pavement is only wide enough for one person to pass at a time, and cars park with a wheel on it, which makes it even trickier to pass. Cycling on it is not an option at all. The speed limit in the middle of town is only 20mph so cyclists overtake the cars all the time. It's a bit scary since there are car doors opening, people pulling out from parking spaces without looking properly and pedestrians crossing the road without checking for traffic, but it's safer than cycling on the pavement and mowing everyone that you pass down on the way!

Plus, most roads that the people I know cycle on outside the main town here don't have pavements. The gutter is all potholes and tree roots though.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[B2345]

(Original post by Podcaster)
See here you go playing the insensitivity card.

1) I never said he deserved it
2) whether it was the drivers fault or not someone died so he would get arrested and taken for questioning. Arrested =/= guilty.
3)Don't pull the 'nobody knows exactly what happened card' either. only one way he could have ended up under the bus as it turned left - if he was in the buses blindspot at the junction.

I know you are sad about the loss of your friend but you must not try and silence others who are pointing out his mistakes for this will only lead to many more cyclists making the same mistakes and falling to the same fate.

Just because I am calling you insensitive doesn't mean I am 'the insensitivity card.' It means that you ARE being insensitive!

1) I did not say you did?! I believe I said '...people....' the 'idiot' part of the sentence was more aimed at you with your 'foolish' comments.
2) I did not call him guilty, I was showing that I was not bias even though I could easily go off and just blame the driver, I said it may have been his mistake.
3) My point is that no matter how very unlikely it is, the bus driver could have muscled past him and forced him in to the gutter on his way to the lights and then done a left turn not thinking he would hit him, it has been mentioned on these very posts by other that similar things have happened to them by angry drivers.

And to your final paragraph, yes I am sad about the loss of my friend but I am not trying to silence anybody plenty of others on this topic have talked about not driving in the gutter and it sounds as if this is an important lesson but they are not saying things such as 'had he not foolishly waited in the blind spot of a bus', perhaps this sentence could have said something like; had he been more educated.

You also did not answer my question, why did you feel the need to post this to me? The second half of your comment about how you ride would have been perfect in educating people if this is what you were here to do. Why were you defending someone who said 'The guy tried to undertake the bus and lost. He ran the lights and it cost him.'? Do you really think what he said added anything to this topic?

[RibenaRockstar]

Talking about taking the lane, not just at junctions:

On a road where I cycle there are some particularly dangerous blind bends, which have the dual white lines (ie no overtaking) in the middle and aren't hugely wide. If a car overtook me and something appeared. Oping the other way, the car would instinctively swerve to the left, thus mashing ,e into the hedge. I now take the middle of the lane around that bend for my own safety. The other day a car behind ,e got a bit irritated and mashed his horn, so I very obviously pointed at the dual white line - he seemed to get the idea.