[internetguru]

Doing a real survey that is actually relevant to stimulate debate. If you are pro EU why are you pro EU? If you are anti EU why are you anti EU?

Keep in mind we have world free trade and the ability to over ride EU laws unlike in real life.

[Morgsie]

I am the EU Rep in the MUN and Leader of the Pro Europe Society. PRO EU

Why? Because it brings the Continent together after the many conflicts,

[internetguru]

(Original post by Morgsie)
I am the EU Rep in the MUN and Leader of the Pro Europe Society. PRO EU

Why? Because it brings the Continent together after the many conflicts,

Isn't that what the Eurovision song contest is for and that doesn't cost £9billion+ per year.

[Morgsie]

(Original post by internetguru)
Isn't that what the Eurovision song contest is for and that doesn't cost £9billion+ per year.

I have studied the EU, I have a few textbooks.

It started through the pooling of the War Industries (Coal and Steel) which was extended with the Treaty of Rome. Since the 1950s the EU had developed economically and politically. It was Maggie who kicked up a fuss about the UK's contributions and the result was the rebate

The Eurovision Song Contest is completely separate from the EU.

[tomcol23]

As Jamie Oliver once said "I have nothing nice to say about the EU"

[internetguru]

(Original post by Morgsie)
I have studied the EU, I have a few textbooks.

It started through the pooling of the War Industries (Coal and Steel) which was extended with the Treaty of Rome. Since the 1950s the EU had developed economically and politically. It was Maggie who kicked up a fuss about the UK's contributions and the result was the rebate

The Eurovision Song Contest is completely separate from the EU.

For the money we contribute to the EU what do we actually get out of it?

[Morgsie]

(Original post by internetguru)
For the money we contribute to the EU what do we actually get out of it?

Wales gets funds because it is economically less than England and the UK gets other funds for example construction, the EU flag is displayed when it has contributed funds to the project. Transport is another area.

[internetguru]

(Original post by Morgsie)
Wales gets funds because it is economically less than England and the UK gets other funds for example construction, the EU flag is displayed when it has contributed funds to the project. Transport is another area.

So say we left the EU and instead used our own money to contribute to our own projects and transport etc. How much better or worst off economically would we be?

[Morgsie]

(Original post by internetguru)
So say we left the EU and instead used our own money to contribute to our own projects and transport etc. How much better or worst off economically would we be?

We would be worse of all round.

Politically we will be isolated, having no seat at the top table to influence policies.

[internetguru]

(Original post by Morgsie)
We would be worse of all round.

Politically we will be isolated, having no seat at the top table to influence policies.

So we get given more money than we take in? Then which countries are being short changed?

I don't see how we would be politically isolated when we have allies across the planet such as the US, Canada, Australia, all of NATO etc. Also why don't we just use lobbyists to influence foreign politics like other countries do? For example Israel has a massive US lobby which does an amazing job at influencing the US we should follow their model.

[Birchington]

I'm pro-Europe, but I do want to see massive reforms made to eliminate the so-called democratic deficit that currently plagues the EU.

[Morgsie]

(Original post by Birchington)
I'm pro-Europe, but I do want to see massive reforms made to eliminate the so-called democratic deficit that currently plagues the EU.

This aswell

[internetguru]

(Original post by Birchington)
I'm pro-Europe, but I do want to see massive reforms made to eliminate the so-called democratic deficit that currently plagues the EU.

If the EU was democratic everyone would vote to stop giving it money and it would cease to be the EU you know any more.

[chrisawhitmore]

(Original post by Birchington)
I'm pro-Europe, but I do want to see massive reforms made to eliminate the so-called democratic deficit that currently plagues the EU.

Yes, but eventually, you must accept that it is impossible to fix things in the EU. We've been trying for CAP reform since the 70s with no progress, so I think saying the EU would be good with fundamental reform is rather like saying that Zimbabwe would be good without all the hyperinflation, poverty and racism.

[LETSJaM]

EU is a complete car crash.


<3 x

[ukip72]

The EU would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.

GSTQ

[Rakas21]

I love the wording of this question as anybody wanting greater integration would also have to vote No technically.

Presuming you did not purposely try and rig the poll via this technicality i voted on the basis of a simple 'do you want to remain in the EU', an Aye from me..

Mainly joining the EFTA would still mean we implemented 70% of legislation without any say.

I actually support free movement of labour within the EU, a rise in the labour force increases economic output and a surplus of labour keeps wage inflation down, additionally having access to a larger talent pool leads to increased productivity as you can pick the best, of the best, of the best. For this reason whilst i oppose immigration and asylum from the generally uneducated third world i have no qualms about the relatively educated EU countries. Additionally i find economic protectionism to be quite sickening.

Political power - As a globalist i want the UK to have the greatest power projection possible and instead of being the lone nation between 2 great powers (EU and US) i would rather be the country with the largest representation in one of those (The UK population is predicted to overhaul France and Germany).

The cost to business - As much as tabloids want to feign the £500bn cost of regulation, leaving aside the fact that we may well have implemented a lot of regulation ourselves anyway i have yet to read a peer reviewed paper, considering these papers often print the headline 'coldest winter on record forecast' each year, i suspect such figures are largely drafted out of thin air and even so could be overhauled in the EU parliament anyway.

Having a pan-EU education policy could do wonders given that the EU nations are generally highly ranked, take the best of each policy and institute a language policy so that everybody speaks English and Spanish.

...

Now don't get me wrong i do believe that there are several things wrong with the EU which is why i would not support political union right now however there are things that could change that...

1) Abolish the veto system, have a super-majority instead

2) Abolish parts of the common commercial policy - Protectionist rubbish

3) Abolish CAP

4) Reform CFP (this apparently is being implemented, i am sure Morgsie can provide a relevant link)

5) Have a transparent EU budget, audited

6) Open party list electoral system

7) Have one EU parliament

There is more but that is enough for now.
....

As for the Eurozone..

Kick out Greece, Cyprus, Portugal and implement Eurobonds for the rest.

[internetguru]

(Original post by Rakas21)
I love the wording of this question as anybody wanting greater integration would also have to vote No technically.

Presuming you did not purposely try and rig the poll via this technicality i voted on the basis of a simple 'do you want to remain in the EU', an Aye from me..

Mainly joining the EFTA would still mean we implemented 70% of legislation without any say.

I actually support free movement of labour within the EU, a rise in the labour force increases economic output and a surplus of labour keeps wage inflation down, additionally having access to a larger talent pool leads to increased productivity as you can pick the best, of the best, of the best. For this reason whilst i oppose immigration and asylum from the generally uneducated third world i have no qualms about the relatively educated EU countries. Additionally i find economic protectionism to be quite sickening.

Political power - As a globalist i want the UK to have the greatest power projection possible and instead of being the lone nation between 2 great powers (EU and US) i would rather be the country with the largest representation in one of those (The UK population is predicted to overhaul France and Germany).

The cost to business - As much as tabloids want to feign the £500bn cost of regulation, leaving aside the fact that we may well have implemented a lot of regulation ourselves anyway i have yet to read a peer reviewed paper, considering these papers often print the headline 'coldest winter on record forecast' each year, i suspect such figures are largely drafted out of thin air and even so could be overhauled in the EU parliament anyway.

Having a pan-EU education policy could do wonders given that the EU nations are generally highly ranked, take the best of each policy and institute a language policy so that everybody speaks English and Spanish.

...

Now don't get me wrong i do believe that there are several things wrong with the EU which is why i would not support political union right now however there are things that could change that...

1) Abolish the veto system, have a super-majority instead

2) Abolish parts of the common commercial policy - Protectionist rubbish

3) Abolish CAP

4) Reform CFP (this apparently is being implemented, i am sure Morgsie can provide a relevant link)

5) Have a transparent EU budget, audited

6) Open party list electoral system

7) Have one EU parliament

There is more but that is enough for now.
....

As for the Eurozone..

Kick out Greece, Cyprus, Portugal and implement Eurobonds for the rest.

Why would we want to join EFTA?

Wage inflation is a good thing it means people can get more for their services, increases the middle class and increases consumption of goods. People first businesses second.

Having a larger population does not mean more power for our country. Our MEPs are not a big power block in the EU they all support various factions. Just because they are British does not mean they are out there doing all they can for the benefit of Britain.

[Rakas21]

(Original post by internetguru)
Why would we want to join EFTA?

Wage inflation is a good thing it means people can get more for their services, increases the middle class and increases consumption of goods. People first businesses second.

Having a larger population does not mean more power for our country. Our MEPs are not a big power block in the EU they all support various factions. Just because they are British does not mean they are out there doing all they can for the benefit of Britain.

On TSR there is no need however in RL it is entirely logical that you want a free trade agreement with the largest market in the world, especially if you argue to leave on the basis of free trade with other nations (the EU actually has a lot more free trade agreements than people think).

Wage inflation itself is a good thing until it feeds through into cost-push inflation. Ultimately a degree of wage inflation is a good thing however to have the highest degree of disposable income you want prices to rise slowly, a greater surplus of labour will still allow for rising wages, just at a slower rate.

True, but the potential is there.

Ultimately i don't think that not getting our own way is reason to run away and as i am neither nationalist or isolationist i wish to remain in the EU and attempt to improve it.

[internetguru]

(Original post by Rakas21)
On TSR there is no need however in RL it is entirely logical that you want a free trade agreement with the largest market in the world, especially if you argue to leave on the basis of free trade with other nations (the EU actually has a lot more free trade agreements than people think).

Wage inflation itself is a good thing until it feeds through into cost-push inflation. Ultimately a degree of wage inflation is a good thing however to have the highest degree of disposable income you want prices to rise slowly, a greater surplus of labour will still allow for rising wages, just at a slower rate.

True, but the potential is there.

Ultimately i don't think that not getting our own way is reason to run away and as i am neither nationalist or isolationist i wish to remain in the EU and attempt to improve it.

We measure the success of countries based on GDP per capita. Wage inflation raises that therefore it is far more beneficial than disadvantageous.

We wouldn't be running away we would be going in a different direction which is more beneficial for the British people. We can't keep saying "oh but if we made it a little better it will be great" there have been no attempts to reduce its budget and none of our EU partners have any interest in making any changes. Just recently they increased their budget, the people of Britain's problem with the EU is the cost and the cost alone.