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Do men have it easy?

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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    Reproductive rights:
    Do men have to worry about access to birth control? No.
    Do they have to worry about pregnancy? No.
    Do they have to worry about access to abortions? No.
    Lol you can make stupid lists like that to support either point of view:

    Eg:

    Do men have any say in the fate of an unborn child which he is the "father" of? No.

    Do women have to worry about access to their child after a divorce? No.

    Do men get equal access to their child in the case of a divorce? No.

    Do women get arrested as much as men do? No.

    Do men live as long as women do? No.


    Economics/employment:
    Do women make as much money as men? No.
    Do women hold as high positions as men, on average? No.
    Do men have to worry about employment rights/employment termination during pregnancy? No.
    Are single fathers coerced into prostitution are often as are single mothers? No.
    Actually, young women make more money than young men (ie, before lots of them have children). Whenever women are taking time out to have children, it's obvious that's going to have an impact on career progression.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    Women aren't interested in anything that cuts their maximum down to 6 months so men can have 6 months guaranteed, "It's not long enough!" is the main reason. The new plans would allow leave to be taken at different times, which is why there's some opposition from business leaders - it's easier to pick employees for projects etc if you know who's taking what leave and when.
    I'm assuming they claim it's not long enough due to financial reasons, which would affect the father and the child too, and not purely for their own personal gain.
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    (Original post by Aisha~~)
    This isn't a fresh concept to me. I'm ridiculously perceptive of social dynamics, I realistically can't write down every consideration here. I assume people are capable of doing the same, so there's no need to spell such issues out.

    You say it "isn't significantly harder". So you at least acknowledge that it IS a worse deal. That's even prior to considering the downsides of being a man throughout a life.

    I give very little ****s in reality, as to which is worse off.
    Of course you can't. But I can't read minds, so since you didn't state that you had, I didn't know whether you had considered them or not.

    I'm not saying dying earlier is preferable, but it seems to me like you underestimate the magnitude of emotional upheaval and sense of loss death can cause. When you lose someone you love, you feel like a part of you had dies with them, and not a moment passes by when you don't wish they were still there with you. This is why I wouldn't consider living without your partner "having it easier".
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Wrong. You don't have to. No one forces you. If you do is because you want to. Ever heard of adoptions? There are millions of children with no homes. Think of them.
    Think about it this way: If a woman wants to have her own children, she has to go through pregnancy and childbirth. If a man wants to have children, he doesn't have to go through any of it. Of course it's a matter of choice, but you can't deny that it's more difficult for women.
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    I'm assuming they claim it's not long enough due to financial reasons, which would affect the father and the child too, and not purely for their own personal gain.
    Its length doesn't affect its financial viability unless they are dipping into their savings (In which case you could ask why have they chosen to have children?). They want to spend as long as possible with their child (fair enough) whilst still having a job to go back to later (fair enough, but very awkward for employers the longer it is for).
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    Think about it this way: If a woman wants to have her own children, she has to go through pregnancy and childbirth. If a man wants to have children, he doesn't have to go through any of it. Of course it's a matter of choice, but you can't deny that it's more difficult for women.
    If a man wants to have children, he has to find a long term female partner who also wishes to have children I think a woman's ability to be independent makes pregnancy and childbirth worthwhile, hence why so many women do so.
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    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    It's pretty sad but I've always noticed that because society places much more importance on women's appearance than on men's, good-looking girls tend to have it way easier than less good-looking girls. Basically, as far as I'm aware, if you're a good-looking girl you can get by fairly easily on your looks and possibly have it easier than men, but if you're not so good-looking you'll struggle. Men have the luxury of being able to 'succeed' (in all aspects of life) based on merit, skill and perseverance whereas that's much harder for women.
    This. A thousand times this.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    If a man wants to have children, he has to find a long term female partner who also wishes to have children I think a woman's ability to be independent makes pregnancy and childbirth worthwhile, hence why so many women do so.
    Women have to find a partner to, what's your point? :confused:
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    Of course you can't. But I can't read minds, so since you didn't state that you had, I didn't know whether you had considered them or not.

    I'm not saying dying earlier is preferable, but it seems to me like you underestimate the magnitude of emotional upheaval and sense of loss death can cause. When you lose someone you love, you feel like a part of you had dies with them, and not a moment passes by when you don't wish they were still there with you. This is why I wouldn't consider living without your partner "having it easier".
    I'm more than aware of the magnitude. And I can safely say that me dealing with that emotional upheaval is not even CLOSE to the loss of 4 more years of life. I would gladly take that grief a thousand times over for 4 extra years. The mind is extremely powerful in healing wounds, but it can't make up for lost time.
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    (Original post by Aisha~~)
    I'm more than aware of the magnitude. And I can safely say that me dealing with that emotional upheaval is not even CLOSE to the loss of 4 more years of life. I would gladly take that grief a thousand times over for 4 extra years. The mind is extremely powerful in healing wounds, but it can't make up for lost time.
    Having dealt with grief, I have to say I disagree. It's just my opinion though.
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    Women have to find a partner to, what's your point? :confused:
    Men have to find a long term partner. Women just need a man for however long it takes for him to ejaculate.
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    (Original post by cpfc12)
    Thank you
    But yes biologically i would say women were put out.
    The main reason why there is chivalry, and the whole contract of marriage, was based on the man working and the woman looking after the home and kids. Human babies are dependent on their mothers longer than any other species, hence why there needs to be more protecting and care.
    They're not necessarily dependent on the mother they're just dependent on care which can be provided by a father, aunt, uncle, grandparents etc. This is linked to the theory that infants need a strong attachment figure during their early years in order to develop healthy attachments later in life.

    ------

    I'd agree that in a way (biologically) it is tough being a woman, I absolutely dread my periods because of the pain :/ (but some lucky girls don't experience any pain at all!)

    I don't understand why the birth argument gets pulled out. No one is forcing you to have children and if you chose to have children then why complain about the pain?

    Socially, women make lives difficult for themselves most of the time. And it absolutely frustrates me when some girls marry so that they don't have to work, it's ridiculous how women (and men :P) have been fighting for equality for years and years and yet these girls decide to put their feet up and make men do their work for them. That's incredibly unfair on the guy.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    Men have to find a long term partner. Women just need a man for however long it takes for him to ejaculate.
    I'm not very good at picking up sarcasm over the internet You are joking, right?
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    Men generally have it easier. Although gay men have a comparatively tough time of it. They are constantly antagonized by demeaning debates over whether or not their sexuality is a choice; whether it is moral; what legal protections they should have. In addition, they have the crudest stereotypes precede them (in the minds of some), which poisonously misrepresents reality.

    Other members of the LGBT group face similar difficulties. But gay men, and transgendered men and women are singled out more than bisexuals or lesbians.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    Men have to find a long term partner. Women just need a man for however long it takes for him to ejaculate.
    It seems like you're suggesting that women aren't interested in finding a long term partner?

    As a woman I don't go out with someone just for sex and I don't use and dispose of men for sex either, I like being in a relationship with someone I love and that requires finding the right person. Which isn't as easy as just walking out of the house and selecting the first person you see.
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    Think about it this way: If a woman wants to have her own children, she has to go through pregnancy and childbirth. If a man wants to have children, he doesn't have to go through any of it. Of course it's a matter of choice, but you can't deny that it's more difficult for women.


    She wants to have her own biological children, then do so. But this should not be used to complain that women have it harder, because childbirth is a matter of choice.

    Also: she has her children and has more power over them than the father. This compensates for any hardness in bringing the children to the world. Why? Because they remain her OWN which is the whole purpose of being a biological mother.
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    But it is harder for a man to pull.
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    I'm not very good at picking up sarcasm over the internet You are joking, right?

    (Original post by Strawberrycayk)
    It seems like you're suggesting that women aren't interested in finding a long term partner?

    As a woman I don't go out with someone just for sex and I don't use and dispose of men for sex either, I like being in a relationship with someone I love and that requires finding the right person. Which isn't as easy as just walking out of the house and selecting the first person you see.
    I'm saying that should a woman want to have children by herself, she can. A man doesn't have that option. It's furthered by the courts almost always giving custody to the mother. I'm not saying all women or even most want to raise a child by themselves, but if they can't find the right person then it's an option available to them that isn't to men.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Asking a girl out who you've fancied for ages, in front of her/your mates IS ballsy.
    Ballsy?

    I've been talking to woman and getting numbers since I was 13, granted 99% of the time I approach a woman it's a rejection, but that's life. The guy who gets rejected the most gets the most girls. Same with sales, gotta get rejected loads before you get a yes!
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    ...
    Sorry, this is very rushed but in response I'd say what you are describing fits for Non-Western societies/the UK twenty years ago. But for the UK today:

    Do men have to worry about access to birth control? Do women anymore? Not in Western society where access to condoms and the morning after pill is so widely spread. I'd understand about women worried about men not using condoms, but the access to them is fine. (Most sexual health clinics even give them away for free).
    Do they have to worry about pregnancy? Yes, for the very least because of the financial implications (maintenance).
    Do they have to worry about access to abortions? Kind of, in the sense that they currently have no legal say with abortions. It's a difficult one sure (as you can never expect the mother to carry a child against her will), but its still very unfair on fathers who might want children.

    Economics/employment:
    Do women make as much money as men? This depends on the job, the level etc. Women often earn less but often have less to spend (cheaper insurance, changing in December though). The idea of men as the provider (a straining position on men as well as damaging for women's rights) is still very very prevalent in society. How many women would be happy for a man to ask her to pay on a date? Quite frankly, many women can "profit" from a male-centric society (as demonstrated in the link another user provided). You also can't ignore maternity leave (men are statistically unlikely to become pregnant and require leave) and so perhaps this "influences" (rightly or wrongly) the wage patterns.
    Do women hold as high positions as men, on average? Yes and no. There exists what can be described as a glass ceiling for women and a dirt floor for men. Yes women struggle to reach the highest positions, but likewise men struggle to leave the lowest paid positions. Reverse discrimination? If you are concerned about statistics look at unemployment figures and minimum wage statistics, men are not doing great (men certainly aren't all fat cats which seems to be what you are arguing). I'd argue that in 10-20 years time this will be irrelevant, judging by the mass shift from many "professional" university course (law, business etc) being male-dominated to female-dominated courses. Look at female/male school-results as well, I don't think we should be solely worried about women anymore.
    Do men have to worry about employment rights/employment termination during pregnancy? Yes, men have shorter paternity leave then women. Women are largely protected by the law on termination, I think most employers would be too scared to risk an unfair dismissal lawsuit in our modern rights-aware society.
    Are single fathers coerced into prostitution are often as are single mothers? What single fathers? Its a fact that single fathers are a rare breed (often due to them losing custody cases), so obviously we will have clearer statistics on women on this matter. I'd hardly say that is a common problem in the UK, and besides, men earn less (see that: MEN EARNING LESS) in porn so it probably would not be a financially sensible option for them if they were struggling (instead they would probably look for other possibly risky work/hard labor).

    Social factors:
    Are men as sexualized as women? As sexualised? Perhaps not yet, but it's certainly getting there. The liberation of women's sexuality has made it more acceptable for women to "objectify" men (if you don't believe this, come into my workplace and listen to women crudely describing what "they would do to" an presumably unwilling Channing Tatum/Jason Statham/Any other attractive male etc). If anything it is more acceptable for women to sexualise men: compare men going to a strip club v women. The men's behaviour would more than likely be seen in a negative light (seedy, exploitative, "dirty old men" etc) whereas the women's as positive (liberating, empowering, freeing).
    Are men blamed for rape (victim blaming)? Of course they are, because they are legally the only perpetrators! If men weren't blamed for rape, surely it wouldn't be a crime? Of course there are instances where women are "partly blamed" for rape; i.e. the slut-walk-debate) which is of course wrong, but likewise you have false-rape accusations. Also there is a cultural shift now portraying all men as "predatory" (probably due to the paranoia over pedophiles driven by the Sun/NOTW in the 90s/00s).

    In my opinion in the West neither sex has it easier, as it all balances out. Of course in Third World and Middle Eastern countries then yes, women face greater hardships.

    Men might earn more but have shorter life spans/poorer health-care. Women might suffer greater biological hardship (childbirth/periods) but have greater custody rights (as a result of said hardship/the prenatal-bonding argument).

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