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Do men have it easy?

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    (Original post by Hopple)
    It doesn't make it any more difficult, and there will be some people who find the extra option to be the best option, hence more options makes it easier.
    Not necessarily.

    For example, you said woman can have surrogates too. As well as facing the same issues as a man would have in this process, a woman would also have to go undergo a procedure for retrieval of her eggs. Now I'm not sue of the exact details, but I'm pretty sure it's an invasive procedure which must be much more difficult than sperm donation for a man.

    Having more options doesn't always mean things are easier for you.
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    Not necessarily.

    For example, you said woman can have surrogates too. As well as facing the same issues as a man would have in this process, a woman would also have to go undergo a procedure for retrieval of her eggs. Now I'm not sue of the exact details, but I'm pretty sure it's an invasive procedure which must be much more difficult than sperm donation for a man.

    Having more options doesn't always mean things are easier for you.
    Fair enough. However, the fact that a woman can completely control what happens from conception onwards (and even control when she conceives) makes it far easier to be a woman in regards to having children.
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    I think there are good and bad aspects for both genders. The menstrual cycle is hideous, childbirth looks even worse and I think as a female you have to be careful walking home at night because there are some depraved individuals who seem to mainly pick on women. However you are more likely to get beaten up if you are male. There is also a lot of sexism in the world. In the western world both men and women are on the receiving end although women still get paid less on average. However I have obviously only ever been a female so I don't know what it's like for males, I'm just glad I live in England because in some places in the world being a female is a massive disadvantage.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    Fair enough. However, the fact that a woman can completely control what happens from conception onwards (and even control when she conceives) makes it far easier to be a woman in regards to having children.
    A pregnant woman is given full control because it is ultimately her body. It would be immoral for anybody else to dictate what she can or can't do with her body. However, these rights do come with a huge price, which I have already stated several times. And once the child is born, correct me if I'm wrong, but both parents get equal rights, at least I hope so anyway.

    Men may have one fewer options of having children, but they are all pretty pain free.
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    A pregnant woman is given full control because it is ultimately her body. It would be immoral for anybody else to dictate what she can or can't do with her body. However, these rights do come with a huge price, which I have already stated several times. And once the child is born, correct me if I'm wrong, but both parents get equal rights, at least I hope so anyway.

    Men may have one fewer options of having children, but they are all pretty pain free.
    In the US there are a number of ways women's bodies are regulated by the State -- when you can get an abortion; how many times you have to visit a doctor before you can get an abortion; where you can get an abortion, etc.
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    Easy my buttocks, i'd like to see a girl try pissing with a hard on... it isnt easy!
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    A pregnant woman is given full control because it is ultimately her body. It would be immoral for anybody else to dictate what she can or can't do with her body. However, these rights do come with a huge price, which I have already stated several times. And once the child is born, correct me if I'm wrong, but both parents get equal rights, at least I hope so anyway.

    Men may have one fewer options of having children, but they are all pretty pain free.
    The mother is the primary parent, the father doesn't even have a right to be named on the birth certificate (that might change this Parliament). And then we can move onto how much leave each parent gets because of the baby's birth (women get far more, even considering the few weeks it may take to physically recover), and also custody if things go bad between the parents.

    Ask mothers if giving birth was worth it to themselves. People may say it's for the good of society, but really, any woman will have children for herself, albeit with maybe some consideration for her partner.
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    (Original post by cl_steele)
    Easy my buttocks, i'd like to see a girl try pissing with a hard on... it isnt easy!
    At least guys can direct the flow
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    (Original post by iheartplums)
    If men get kicked in the balls it is likely they did something to deserve it :P Whereas women need to suffer pain for the sake of the human race.
    Fair point, although you are speaking to someone who's suffered the former without deserving it at all, so ssh :P
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    (Original post by Herbadacious)
    At least guys can direct the flow
    Touche
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    (Original post by 0000fw)
    I think there are good and bad aspects for both genders. The menstrual cycle is hideous, childbirth looks even worse and I think as a female you have to be careful walking home at night because there are some depraved individuals who seem to mainly pick on women. However you are more likely to get beaten up if you are male. There is also a lot of sexism in the world. In the western world both men and women are on the receiving end although women still get paid less on average. However I have obviously only ever been a female so I don't know what it's like for males, I'm just glad I live in England because in some places in the world being a female is a massive disadvantage.
    +1, Good comments, balanced too

    Dan
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    The mother is the primary parent, the father doesn't even have a right to be named on the birth certificate (that might change this Parliament). And then we can move onto how much leave each parent gets because of the baby's birth (women get far more, even considering the few weeks it may take to physically recover), and also custody if things go bad between the parents.

    Ask mothers if giving birth was worth it to themselves. People may say it's for the good of society, but really, any woman will have children for herself, albeit with maybe some consideration for her partner.
    That is unfair, and I hope it changes.

    Rights don't come without responsibilities. I don't want to get into this discussion again, as I've already pointed out in this thread that longer maternity leave for women doesn't always work in their favour.
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    First time with new communication method: memes!
    To the American man: Click image for larger version. 

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    What do you mean, discrimination against USA men? - Sources (alas can't find the more up-to-date one).
    Brain Banks - after 5 years in prison, FRA: let bygones be bygones.

    Results - Rape: with only women raping boys, ignoring women raping boys esp wrt drunk = official Govt. statistics will show: All men are rapists (& that’s all they are. They rape us with their eyes, their laws, & their codes - feminist literature); or close enough. Is the United States the only country where more men are raped every year than women? And what does the Govt do?
    Obamacare- debt ceiling raised so oppressed women class who live longer than the opressors & better cared for, can live on avg. 6 years rather than 5. Ask the one(?) Health Officer for men or the 11 for women.
    Homeless - unlike UK, there r NO men's DV shelter, there is a pet shelter when DV occurs (gynocentric USA!); but the % of men:women is almost as close as the work-related & suicide death ratio.

    UK: Are the 90% of homeless men part of the wage gap myth? Ans: NO, as they'd not have a tax code- so removes the £500/year earning men. :mad:

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	167094 I'd like to write more, but... after coming back from the hospital & night in jail as wife/gf had beaten me (raw testicles) & her unharmed, I have been served notice for a non-molestation charge ex-parte so have to leave the child(ren) look for new accommodation whilst fighting a court case in 10 days - maybe she won't take our child(ren) >200 miles away & I will see them; been let go at work due to affirmitive action, the 3 recent (now p/t, back from 2nd/3rd children) mothers will now be taking over my f/t job - if the laws & charity didn't deem me over-privileged I'd curse this phallocentric society.
    You never know which man this could happen to...Anyman!!
    Somebody debunk me...

    Edit
    Norwegian government stopped funding gender research (last year) after this hilarious series “Hjernevask” (Brainwash) that was aired on Norwegian tv. 7 episodes, english subtitles http://vimeo.com/19707588 Password: hjernevask
    Anyone care?
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    A pregnant woman is given full control because it is ultimately her body. It would be immoral for anybody else to dictate what she can or can't do with her body. However, these rights do come with a huge price, which I have already stated several times. And once the child is born, correct me if I'm wrong, but both parents get equal rights, at least I hope so anyway.

    Men may have one fewer options of having children, but they are all pretty pain free.
    Yes. A pregnant woman should have the most control, but with that amount of control should come more responsibility for pregnancy etc. It is unfair to declare a man as being equally responsible for a pregnancy when he had such a small amount of control.

    Or to put it another way. It's their body so it's their responsibility to mitigate their risk of getting pregnant, whether that's by using birth control themselves or ensuring that their partner is. The buck stops with them. It has to stop with someone, and the person with the most control whose body this is going to affect is the most logical choice.
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    Yes to a certain extent, but that doesn't mean we havent got our fair share of sexism in today's society.
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    (Original post by limetang)
    Yes. A pregnant woman should have the most control, but with that amount of control should come more responsibility for pregnancy etc. It is unfair to declare a man as being equally responsible for a pregnancy when he had such a small amount of control.
    .... How does the man have 'less' control than the woman?

    (Original post by limetang)
    Or to put it another way. It's their body so it's their responsibility to mitigate their risk of getting pregnant, whether that's by using birth control themselves or ensuring that their partner is.
    ... No.

    You're stating that the woman (female) has to ensure everything; but the man (male) has that same responsibility, since any occurrence of pregnancy would be equally caused by either party.

    (Original post by limetang)
    The buck stops with them. It has to stop with someone, and the person with the most control whose body this is going to affect is the most logical choice.
    No, that is an arbitrary choice and is not logically supported.

    The woman doesn't have the most control, that is the primary false assumption you've made.

    Just because it's her body does not mean that she has the most control over whether or not she gets pregnant. The relevant contextual factors matter as well.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    .... How does the man have 'less' control than the woman?


    ... No.

    You're stating that the woman (female) has to ensure everything; but the man (male) has that same responsibility, since any occurrence of pregnancy would be equally caused by either party.


    No, that is an arbitrary choice and is not logically supported.

    The woman doesn't have the most control, that is the primary false assumption you've made.

    Just because it's her body does not mean that she has the most control over whether or not she gets pregnant. The relevant contextual factors matter as well.
    Easy. He has far fewer options of contraception. He has no choice when it comes to abortion (although rightly so), He doesn't have the choice to adopt out the child or leave it at a hospital etc.

    Men have no control over pregnancy, minimal control over conception (comparatively), and no control when it comes to who is responsible for this child

    No woman has to give birth to a child if she doesn't want to, and no woman has to be responsible for a child she gives birth to.

    Motherhood is entirely a choice for women, fatherhood, and parental responsibility is not a choice for men.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    .... How does the man have 'less' control than the woman?


    ... No.

    You're stating that the woman (female) has to ensure everything; but the man (male) has that same responsibility, since any occurrence of pregnancy would be equally caused by either party.


    No, that is an arbitrary choice and is not logically supported.

    The woman doesn't have the most control, that is the primary false assumption you've made.

    Just because it's her body does not mean that she has the most control over whether or not she gets pregnant. The relevant contextual factors matter as well.
    It's going to affect her body. It's her prerogative to ensure she protects herself. Let's say I have a nut allergy. It's my responsibility to ensure I don't eat nuts or food containing them. When I go to a restaurant it's my responsibility to enquire about the nut content of the food. The buck does and should stop with me to protect myself against something that affects me. I don't see why this is a difficult concept to grasp.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    .... How does the man have 'less' control than the woman?


    ... No.

    You're stating that the woman (female) has to ensure everything; but the man (male) has that same responsibility, since any occurrence of pregnancy would be equally caused by either party.


    No, that is an arbitrary choice and is not logically supported.

    The woman doesn't have the most control, that is the primary false assumption you've made.

    Just because it's her body does not mean that she has the most control over whether or not she gets pregnant. The relevant contextual factors matter as well.
    And the woman does have the most control. I'm sorry but to say she doesn't is a symptom of you either being ignorant or dishonest. She has more choice of contraception, she has more choice when it comes to post-conception, and has choice when it comes to responsibility after birth.

    No woman has to give birth or be responsible for a child if she doesn't want to. Fact.
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    (Original post by limetang)
    Easy. He has far fewer options of contraception.
    And? That merely means he has fewer choices; nothing more, nothing less.

    You're attempting to draw invalid conclusions from this.

    (Original post by limetang)
    He has no choice when it comes to abortion (although rightly so), He doesn't have the choice to adopt out the child or leave it at a hospital etc.
    So? That doesn't mean that it's not equally his responsibility.

    If anything that would mean he should assume even more responsibility to prevent pregnancy!

    (Original post by limetang)
    Men have no control over pregnancy
    And? Again, if anything, this means that have more responsibility in pregnancy prevention if they do not want the woman to get pregnant.

    And, yet again, this does not support your conclusion in the slightest.

    (Original post by limetang)
    minimal control over conception (comparatively), and no control when it comes to who is responsible for this child
    Again, this does not support your conclusion.

    (Original post by limetang)
    No woman has to give birth to a child if she doesn't want to, and no woman has to be responsible for a child she gives birth to.
    See above

    (Original post by limetang)
    Motherhood is entirely a choice for women, fatherhood, and parental responsibility is not a choice for men.
    Sure it is. I can choose to not be responsible for the child -- i.e. give it up for adoption if the mother doesn't want it either.

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