[Dinnes]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Where's your evidence that the courts are sexist towards men? Little anecdotal examples show nothing. I agree with you on the rape thing though.

^ Also agree what he said about rape. We had a sex councillor in a few months ago who told us about someone she knew (17 I think) who had sex with a 15 year old in a relationship completely un-abusively, the relationship breaks down, the guy gets accused and subsequently convicted of rape.

[cpfc12]

(Original post by Dinnes)
Was just thinking about the difficulties that men and women face in society today, and came to the conclusion that there are a huge amount of things women have to deal with which men don't. For one you have the whole background sexism issue which, if it still exists, is generally still prejudiced against women rather than men: then you have the whole labour/menstrual cycle issue, both of which I am reliably told are a major pain (not to forget PMS if you get that). And then there's (as an extension of the sexism topic), the fact that women are unfairly sexualised in society.

Some of that may be a little inaccurate so correct me if I'm wrong, but us guys seem to have it comparatively easy. We don't seem to get any of those issues (no menopause either), and I'm really struggling to think of where we have it difficult. Perhaps that there's a bit of a pressure for guys to ask girls out and not the other way round, but that isn't a major problem.

What do you people think? I do really sympathise with the whole concept of being a woman because I'd say it's harder, even in today's society. Partially societal issues, partly biological I think.

If you all have any ideas then please post them If I've made any mistakes I'll correct them, just quote me

Dan

The concept of male privilege is absurd
Men had to be conscripted and sent to wars to die in their millions, work in coal mines, factories for 18 hour days, to this day men get the bitter end of divorce settlements regardless of the circumstances, and are more likely to suffer mental illness, ill health, homelessness, and look at all the boy child soldiers dying around the world. I am not going to start a battle of the sexes, as i like to call myself a humanist, and not pledge my allegiance to only one gender.

Yes women had strict rules placed on them, and they still do in many parts of the world, which is why i advocate feminism in places like Africa, the middle east, south america, but so did men. Marriage was a contract, the woman sold her reproductive facilities and men sold their labour. If the woman was to abandon or neglect the child or burden her children on to somewhere else, society would look down on her, the same way in which if a man didn't work or failed to provide for his family, society would view him as a freak. It worked both ways.

Wage discrimination you see in today's society more comes down to the choices made not discrimination as such, and other practical factors, such as men working more overtime, not taking leave to have children.

I think the problem with men today is that there is no process of manhood for them to go through, it has been belittled and looked down onto such an extent, that it is viewed as being archaic which is ridiculous when thinking masculine qualities helped us through many tough times in the history of man and woman. Now i am not putting down womanhood, but i am focusing my attention on manhood, to demonstrate that many men you see in society today are males but not real men, they are confused and are disposable, hence why growing numbers are turning to manipulative techniques such as the "mystery methods" or becoming completely effeminates, or just eating themselves away with self esteem issues. I am talking about masculine qualities in character personality, not looks. (although that plays a part).

It seems to me that feminists are really horney, and instead of tempering themselves they prefer to temper aggressive men into assertive men, and temper assertive men into passive men, western feminism has become a joke now, with feminist authors on best selling news outlets writing articles on how there should be more female named street signs and how guys shouldn't open doors for them. its become more about entitlement than equality. However feminists in the parts of the world were there is actual gender inequality gain my full support.

[Sternumator]

Women have it easy but men cope better. If men were the ones giving birth there wouldn't be half as much fuss made about it.

[NYU2012]

(Original post by Jono404)
Tell me you're taking the ****ing piss, please. If anything it's become acceptable for women to fawn over topless pics of men and unacceptable for men to do the same, just look at the whole 50 shades of grey thing and all the girls getting wet over that new Channing Tatum film. As for your economic reasons, women don't earn as much as men because despite what feminazis have tried a fair amount of women are still quite happy to attach themselves to a man, have children and leave the workplace.

Really? It's unacceptable for men to do the same? Tell that to the multibillion dollar porn industry.

As for your refutation of the given socioeconomic reasons, you've clearly never spent any time in sociology or feminist literature.

(1) There are plenty of women who do not want to have children -- Why don't they receive equal pay?

(2) How do you know that women do not have children and leave the work place because that is the social gender stereotype?

(3) In many cases women leave the workplace to raise children because it's not profitable for them to remain in the workplace -- it costs more money to hire a babysitter than they make; or the extra they are earning is not a significant amount to make a difference.

Please, go actually study sociology.

[lukas1051]

(Original post by NYU2012)
That's called an argument from the negative and is fallacious.

You cannot argue from the negative and have a valid argument.

I'm not making an argument. I'm simply saying that in terms of cases I've heard about, I hold the view that courts are biased to women when it comes to divorce - with no evidence from either side of the argument, I only have those anecdotes to go on.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by NYU2012)
Reproductive rights:
Do men have to worry about access to birth control? No.
Do they have to worry about pregnancy? No.
Do they have to worry about access to abortions? No.

Economics/employment:
Do women make as much money as men? No.
Do women hold as high positions as men, on average? No.
Do men have to worry about employment rights/employment termination during pregnancy? No.
Are single fathers coerced into prostitution are often as are single mothers? No.

Why do women have to worry about access to birth control in the U.K? Same with abortions.

You can not use the fact that women don't make as much money on men on an average as evidence of the fact that men have it easier than women. For you to do this, you would have to show that the reason for women not having as much money as men is because of the fact that there's sexism. Same with high-positions, you can not use the fact that men are over-represented as evidence. Just like you can not use the fact that women are overepresented in nursing as a fact that men have it harder to get into nursing.

Where's your evidence and statistics on single mothers being coerced? Coerced being the operative word considering there's nothing wrong with going into a profession for money voluntarily.

[Dinnes]

(Original post by cpfc12)
The concept of male privilege is absurd
Men had to be conscripted and sent to wars to die in their millions, work in coal mines, factories for 18 hour days, to this day men get the bitter end of divorce settlements regardless of the circumstances, and are more likely to suffer mental illness, ill health, homelessness, and look at all the boy child soldiers dying around the world. I am not going to start a battle of the sexes, as i like to call myself a humanist, and not pledge my allegiance to only one gender.

Yes women had strict rules placed on them, and they still do in many parts of the world, which is why i advocate feminism in places like Africa, the middle east, south america, but so did men. Marriage was a contract, the woman sold her reproductive facilities and men sold their labour. If the woman was to abandon or neglect the child or burden her children on to somewhere else, society would look down on her, the same way in which if a man didn't work or failed to provide for his family, society would view him as a freak. It worked both ways.

Wage discrimination you see in today's society more comes down to the choices made not discrimination as such, and other practical factors, such as men working more overtime, not taking leave to have children.

I think the problem with men today is that there is no process of manhood for them to go through, it has been belittled and looked down onto such an extent, that it is viewed as being archaic which is ridiculous when thinking masculine qualities helped us through many tough times in the history of man and woman. Now i am not putting down womanhood, but i am focusing my attention on manhood, to demonstrate that many men you see in society today are males but not real men, they are confused and are disposable, hence why growing numbers are turning to manipulative techniques such as the "mystery methods" or becoming completely effeminates, or just eating themselves away with self esteem issues. I am talking about masculine qualities in character personality, not looks. (although that plays a part).

It seems to me that feminists are really horney, and instead of tempering themselves they prefer to temper aggressive men into assertive men, and temper assertive men into passive men, western feminism has become a joke now, with feminist authors on best selling news outlets writing articles on how there should be more female named street signs and how guys shouldn't open doors for them. its become more about entitlement than equality. However feminists in the parts of the world were there is actual gender inequality gain my full support.

I'm neither a woman nor a feminist :P but I can understand your point of view

[NYU2012]

(Original post by lukas1051)
I'm not making an argument. I'm simply saying that in terms of cases I've heard about, I hold the view that courts are biased to women when it comes to divorce - with no evidence from either side of the argument, I only have those anecdotes to go on.

Your statements and providing of anecdotal evidence is making an argument.

[gagaslilmonsteruk]

(Original post by kunoichi)
i think its absolute bs when men complain about the sexism towards them.

Yes there may be an increase but it is almost nothing compared to what women all over the world have been dealing with for centuries.

And i cant believe they complain about sexism to men when you think of the way women in some asian and african countries still have to live.

Sexism is wrong no matter what gender the culprit is.

[lukas1051]

(Original post by NYU2012)
Your statements and providing of anecdotal evidence is making an argument.

Well as I said, that's still my view. I don't want to argue about semantics.

[Jono404]

(Original post by NYU2012)
(1) There are plenty of women who do not want to have children -- Why don't they receive equal pay?

Point to an example of a job offering pay that differers depending on gender in the west please? Didn't think so.

OP you should probably note the millions of men throughout history who have been given a gun and sent to their deaths in warfare.

[NYU2012]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Why do women have to worry about access to birth control in the U.K? Same with abortions.

Is this a question?

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
You can not use the fact that women don't make as much money on men on an average as evidence of the fact that men have it easier than women.

Men and women with the same position, often make discrepant amounts.

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
For you to do this, you would have to show that the reason for women not having as much money as men is because of the fact that there's sexism.

Go read all of the data available in all of the sociological literature.

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Same with high-positions, you can not use the fact that men are over-represented as evidence.

If 50% of the population is female, and 50% is male; why is there a gender divide?

And yes, it is evidence.

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Just like you can not use the fact that women are overepresented in nursing as a fact that men have it harder to get into nursing.

Men have always had access to these jobs; women have not.

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Where's your evidence and statistics on single mothers being coerced? Coerced being the operative word considering there's nothing wrong with going into a profession for money voluntarily.

Economic coercion?

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong it going into a profession for money; I'm merely calling attention to the fact that a number of women revert to prostitution because they pay is more significant than other jobs available to them.

Again, go read all of the sociological literature.

[Dinnes]

(Original post by Jono404)
Point to an example of a job offering pay that differers depending on gender in the west please? Didn't think so.

OP you should probably note the millions of men throughout history who have been given a gun and sent to their deaths in warfare.

Hmm good point. Historically there was definitely more responsibility for men, even though women had even less independence.

[Jono404]

(Original post by NYU2012)
Please, go actually study sociology.

I'd rather study a subject that's not a ****ing joke, thanks.

[NYU2012]

(Original post by Jono404)
Point to an example of a job offering pay that differers depending on gender in the west please? Didn't think so.

OP you should probably note the millions of men throughout history who have been given a gun and sent to their deaths in warfare.

Are you actually this completely ignorant?

Gender pay inequalities are a known fact in western countries. Have you been living under a rock?

Have you ever actually picked up a sociology book?

[NYU2012]

(Original post by Jono404)
I'd rather study a subject that's not a ****ing joke, thanks.

Great, so you've just proven you know nothing about sociology and none of your statements are actually informed -- aka we can all disregard everything you say because it's all mere speculation, with no education, etc. to support it

[Marco1]

I would have to say sexism is still very alive. Men are so appallingly stereotyped these days. Women can be so cruel.

[RedDevilThing]

For the middle east and third world countries I'd probably agree with you, but in the western world I think the opposite is true. There is a large amount of discrimination against men that goes largely unnoticed.

Say a man hits a woman, in broad daylight. Several people will come to her rescue and proclaim the man to be a disgusting human being. If the roles are reversed it would attention but no-one would step in (except maybe to prevent the man from retaliating) and most people would say things like "You go girl!" under the assumption that the man must have done something to 'deserve' it.

Men are not allowed to sit next to children they don't know on some planes because men are often assumed to be paedophiles.

Women are not required to serve on the front line, they're not even allowed to serve on the front line. Men don't get the option to opt-out.

There are plenty, plenty more examples of this, here's some good videos about the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y9_oklmHvU

Anti-male sexism in educational institutions + plenty of examples of sexism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8tT...eature=related

Yet more examples, I'd recommend watching several of her videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd...eature=related

Proof of my first point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JA4EPRbWhQ

Women laughing at male mutilation + reaction. Excuse the language.

[cpfc12]

(Original post by Dinnes)
I'm neither a woman nor a feminist :P but I can understand your point of view

Thank you
But yes biologically i would say women were put out.
The main reason why there is chivalry, and the whole contract of marriage, was based on the man working and the woman looking after the home and kids. Human babies are dependent on their mothers longer than any other species, hence why there needs to be more protecting and care.

[James A]

(Original post by NYU2012)
Your statements and providing of anecdotal evidence is making an argument.

(Original post by NYU2012)
Are you actually this completely ignorant?

Gender pay inequalities are a known fact in western countries. Have you been living under a rock?

Have you ever actually picked up a sociology book?

Is it me or do you just love picking fights with people for foolish reasons?????????

Calm down man, take a breather.