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Do men have it easy?

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    Pretty sure the equal pay stats relate to similar work, not identical work, that would be pretty impossible!

    I do get discouraged when it is assumed that one day I will have children. I really do not want children (and keep getting told oh you'll change your mind, an extreme pet hate :/), and I worry that because I have the capability of having children one of my male collegues would have an advantage over a promotion. But it isn't proven nor has it yet happened, but we'll see.

    Physically, women have to deal with periods. I'm sorry but the absolute agony of it is unbearable! I'm an extreme case because I have a diagnosed illness so I have to take daily medication to keep it at bay, I kept fainting and randomers kept trying to send me to hospital just because of a damn period! Caused me so many life problems, if I was a guy I'd consider myself extremely lucky that I didn't have to deal with such a regularly painful experience. But that's all I gotta say about that one, hah.
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    (Original post by Plushie)
    Pretty sure the equal pay stats relate to similar work, not identical work, that would be pretty impossible!

    I do get discouraged when it is assumed that one day I will have children. I really do not want children (and keep getting told oh you'll change your mind, an extreme pet hate :/), and I worry that because I have the capability of having children one of my male collegues would have an advantage over a promotion. But it isn't proven nor has it yet happened, but we'll see.

    Physically, women have to deal with periods. I'm sorry but the absolute agony of it is unbearable! I'm an extreme case because I have a diagnosed illness so I have to take daily medication to keep it at bay, I kept fainting and randomers kept trying to send me to hospital just because of a damn period! Caused me so many life problems, if I was a guy I'd consider myself extremely lucky that I didn't have to deal with such a regularly painful experience. But that's all I gotta say about that one, hah.
    ^ This is the kind of thing I was talking about. It must be so horrible! I saw a documentary a while back, and one woman spent half her life in PMT induced rage and stress and could barely do anything during that time.
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    (Original post by RedDevilThing)
    For the middle east and third world countries I'd probably agree with you, but in the western world I think the opposite is true. There is a large amount of discrimination against men that goes largely unnoticed.

    Say a man hits a woman, in broad daylight. Several people will come to her rescue and proclaim the man to be a disgusting human being. If the roles are reversed it would attention but no-one would step in (except maybe to prevent the man from retaliating) and most people would say things like "You go girl!" under the assumption that the man must have done something to 'deserve' it.

    Oh wow someone called a man a disgusting person. Get over it - i got told to 'get back in the kitchen' the other day.
    And anyway this is bs, most civilized people are disgusted with either gender hitting each other in public.


    Women are not required to serve on the front line, they're not even allowed to serve on the front line. Men don't get the option to opt-out.
    Not out of choice, and if they arent maybe it is to make it easier for their fellow males having to protect them as well as themselves, because some of the countries we are currently fighting in arent the most respectful to women and view western women as almost nothing

    Women laughing at male mutilation + reaction. Excuse the language.
    There are thousands of girls in african countries having their vaginas sewn up, whilst awake,without anaesthetic for the men they will be marrying so that they can prove they are virgins.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical...tilation.shtml

    At least men get to have it done in hospitals with clean tools and anaesthetic. Its also normally done for a medical reason and doesnt stop them enjoying sex or being able to orgasm.


    These things you've mentioned are bad, especially the paedophile one (which women dont get and is appalling) but other than that women have all these things across the world in equal or worse measure.
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    (Original post by Kaytti)
    I have to agree with you on most of it. Then again, I'm just being biased as I am a woman . It does seem that men can live life practically painfree in terms of unavoidable pain (sex, no menstrual cycle etc), and getting kicked in the balls, I'm really sorry to say is definitely less painful than childbirth.

    You're gonna get a lot of love from women for that post!
    I'm not going to dispute that, because I'm sure it's true, but without having a frame of reference, you can't really say it is "definitely". It's definitely a different kind of pain.

    I once spoke to a friend of a friend who had given birth 3 times. She'd also had kidney stones. She told me that having a kidney stone was "much" more painful than giving birth. I've had both kidney stones and gall stones - both excruciating beyond measure, but if they're "much" more painful than both, then I would certainly go through child-birth to bring a life into the world.

    And yeah, I would agree that biologically women have it 'worse' in terms of pain etc, but it's the old 'evolutionary fit-for-purpose'. In the case of hominids, evolution didn't really picture women working 9-5's as well as raising young. Who knows, over millions of years, that could change!
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    (Original post by TwilightKnight)
    I'm not going to dispute that, because I'm sure it's true, but without having a frame of reference, you can't really say it is "definitely". It's definitely a different kind of pain.

    I once spoke to a friend of a friend who had given birth 3 times. She'd also had kidney stones. She told me that having a kidney stone was "much" more painful than giving birth. I've had both kidney stones and gall stones - both excruciating beyond measure, but if they're "much" more painful than both, then I would certainly go through child-birth to bring a life into the world.

    And yeah, I would agree that biologically women have it 'worse' in terms of pain etc, but it's the old 'evolutionary fit-for-purpose'. In the case of hominids, evolution didn't really picture women working 9-5's as well as raising young. Who knows, over millions of years, that could change!
    Who knows indeed eh? Although I think evolution has slowed down now, now that the only changing is down to attractive traits encouraging reproductive selection rather than negative traits resulting in people dying (the slower zebra being eaten etc. etc.) :P
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    If you looked at say, salaries of 25 year old graduates who hadn't taken any time out of work, and had started work at a similar time, you wouldn't see the pay gap that you get when women start leaving the workplace.
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    (Original post by Jono404)
    If you can find me an article about this happening, in this country or the US, within the last say, 20 years, you win a shiny penny. I'm talking same job title, same company, not just "a female lawyer earns X a male lawyer earns Y" because there are too many variables to take into consideration.


    Wow, that was hard. I put "Pay inequaliy" into google and got tons of hits both from google and scholar.google.com

    Here we go::
    http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=10273271

    http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/th...uality-persist


    There are literally hundreds of hits. Its not my job to act as your professor and educate you: If you want this information, google it.

    Secondly, if you're going to come into a debate, next time why don't you enter into a debate you're actually educated on rather than stating uniformed and clearly unresearched opinion?

    If you're not happy witht these two sources, there are literally hundreds more you can obtain via a google search.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    Yes, such evidence does exist.

    It's available in the literature.
    I have never seen it. Do you know how vast the literature is? How about linking the relevant ones considering you seem have read them all? And remember, all factors I mentioned have to be controlled for.

    In the case of women in business, they are trying to enter a male-dominated, gendered environment; where stereotypically womanly gender traits are 'undesirable'.

    In the case of men trying to be nurses, the same isn't true.
    Why not? In business, ruthlessness and competitiveness is encouraged. These traits are more masculine. However, in nursing, traits like being caring and empathetic and kindness are encouraged. These traits are more feminine. A women who possess feminine traits can not enter the professions that value more masculine traits. But, at the same time, a man who possess masculine traits can not enter professions that value feminine traits.

    I'm sure there are; but due to a number of gender factors, stereotypes, etc. women, often single parents, are economically coerced into prostitution.

    I'll note I'm all for the legalization of prostitution; but I'll also recognize that women are, in some cases, coerced into the profession due to a need support themselves and their child, when there are no other alternatives.
    But, does it really matter, whether you're economically coerced into prostitution or economically coerced into being a road cleaner? It's both economic coercion. You're doing it because there's no alternatives and you need to support your child.
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    (Original post by Dinnes)
    Was just thinking about the difficulties that men and women face in society today, and came to the conclusion that there are a huge amount of things women have to deal with which men don't. For one, if there *is* sexism in society today then it is generally going to be against women rather than men: then you have the whole labour/menstrual cycle issue, both of which I am reliably told are a major pain (not to forget PMS if you get that). And then there's (as an extension of the sexism topic), the fact that women are unfairly sexualised in society.

    Some of that may be a little inaccurate so correct me if I'm wrong, but us guys seem to have it comparatively easy. We don't seem to get any of those issues (no menopause either), and I'm really struggling to think of where we have it difficult. Perhaps that there's a bit of a pressure for guys to ask girls out and not the other way round, but that isn't a major problem.

    What do you people think? I do really sympathise with the whole concept of being a woman because I'd say it's harder, even in today's society. Partially societal issues, mostly biological I think.

    If you all have any ideas then please post them If I've made any mistakes I'll correct them, just quote me

    Dan


    Edit: Conclusions we seemed to have reached so far is that socially neither have it easier or harder, but biologically women do have it harder
    Edit 2: Having been accused several times of it, I am *not* a raging hormonal feminist :P Just a guy with an opinion

    Also I should point out something people seem to be highlighting - In the past of course there's the 'Coal Mine and War' argument; Men had a much greater burden of responsibility then because women were more oppressed and had much less independence, but to clarify this thread is about the here and now
    Women have it far easier than men. Work is an option for the majority of women as they can be kept by their husbands. This may sound sexist but it is true. Many women who are mature students do not face the financial difficulties that men face thanks to the financial support they receive from their partners.
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    [QUOTE=NYU2012;38803355]
    There are literally hundreds of hits. Its not my job to act as your professor and educate you: If you want this information, google it.
    /QUOTE]

    Actually if it's you who's making the claim, the burden of proof lies on you. One of those articles even says the pay gap for non mothers and mothers is far greater than the gap between men and women.
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    I'm not normally one to complain about sexism...

    But why is there ni make sync. Swimming event at the olympics, when there is a female one. I'm sure there is another like this (male beach volleyball?)
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    (Original post by Quentin2a)
    Women have it far easier than men. Work is an option for the majority of women as they can be kept by their husbands. This may sound sexist but it is true. Many women who are mature students do not face the financial difficulties than men face thanks to the financial support they receive from their partners.
    Lol this maybe have been true in the 1950s but women worldwide do the majority of the worlds work. Most families in the UK require both parents/adults to work; work is only an option for any gender for the minority who are very rich. I face the same amount of financial difficulties as my boyfriend does; in fact, I'm paying for him at the moment because he's unemployed and I'm not.

    The actual majority of people don't earn enough to allow one person to sit at home and do nothing.
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    (Original post by Movember)
    i agree with the points you made but i think women have it very easy! if they dont want periods, they can take the pill and they dont need to have kids! even when they decide to have kids, there are drugs which stop the pain!
    Please tell me you're joking?

    have you absolutely any idea about the side effects the various contraceptive pills can cause? Besides, not having regular periods can increase your chances of getting uterine cancer.

    http://www.macmillan.org.uk/Cancerin...er/Causes.aspx

    Do you really think if a woman has enough painkillers she won't feel any pain while giving birth? There is a range of different painkillers available, but nothing can be given in excess as it can slow down the breathing of the baby, leading to its death.

    Women don't need to have kids, but they may want to have them. Men who want children, on the other hand, do not have to go through any of this.

    As for the original topic, I don't think that socially either gender has it harder than the other. There are a lot of social pressures and expectations on both the genders.

    On thing that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned already is safety, especially at night. A lot of girls I know, including me, don't like walking around on our own in the dark due to safety concerns. But a lot of guys don't seem to mind. I'm not sure if women are actually more likely to be attacked than men, but its something a lot of people believe.
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    (Original post by kunoichi)
    Oh wow someone called a man a disgusting person. Get over it - i got told to 'get back in the kitchen' the other day.
    And anyway this is bs, most civilized people are disgusted with either gender hitting each other in public.
    Dismissing the significance of physical violence is in no way comparable to being told to 'get back in the kitchen', a phrase that is largely considered to be a harmless joke, you chose to get on with your day and it doesn't affect you further. But the view that a woman hitting a man is okay and 'deserved' does certainly exist (see the video in my post) and it is dangerous. A violent woman could get away with several cases of assault if this view were to make its way into a jury.

    Not out of choice, and if they arent maybe it is to make it easier for their fellow males having to protect them as well as themselves, because some of the countries we are currently fighting in arent the most respectful to women and view western women as almost nothing
    Of course women don't want to serve on the front line, do you really think men do? Modern women expect to be treated as independent and equal to men, so they shouldn't expect men to take bullets for them if they were required to serve on the front line.

    So what? There are thousands of girls in african countries having their vaginas sewn up, whilst awake,without anaesthetic for the men they will be marrying so that they can prove they are virgins.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical...tilation.shtml

    At least men get to have it done in hospitals with clean tools and anaesthetic. Its also normally done for a medical reason and doesnt stop them enjoying sex or being able to orgasm.
    Yes, it is sickening. But I was trying to avoid responses like this by saying that I was talking about the western world. In third world countries and the middle east women definitely have it worse. And whilst the conditions for the typical male circumcision may be better, it doesn't justify it. It's still performed on many infants unable to consent to it.

    I fully agree that more needs to be done to help women in third world and middle eastern countries. But it doesn't mean we should forget about sexism that occurs closer to home.
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    (Original post by Plushie)
    Most families in the UK require both parents/adults to work; work is only an option for any gender for the minority who are very rich.
    You can thank feminism for that. Corporations claimed to be empowering women, when actually they were just happy that all the new labour entering the workforce drove down wages.
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    (Original post by Jono404)
    You can thank feminism for that. Corporations claimed to be empowering women, when actually they were just happy that all the new labour entering the workforce drove down wages.
    To be perfectly honest I'd rather work for a ****ty wage than not work at all. I would be bored off my ass. I don't want kids and I'm a career focused person, what else would I do? My job doesn't pay very much but it's an awesome job, to me money isn't everything. I think there are a billion and one reasons why wages are low; you can't pinpoint this on feminism when there are a thousand other economic variables.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    Really? It's unacceptable for men to do the same? Tell that to the multibillion dollar porn industry.

    As for your refutation of the given socioeconomic reasons, you've clearly never spent any time in sociology or feminist literature.

    (1) There are plenty of women who do not want to have children -- Why don't they receive equal pay?

    (2) How do you know that women do not have children and leave the work place because that is the social gender stereotype?

    (3) In many cases women leave the workplace to raise children because it's not profitable for them to remain in the workplace -- it costs more money to hire a babysitter than they make; or the extra they are earning is not a significant amount to make a difference.

    Please, go actually study sociology.
    Does sociology teach about the difficulties that men face in society as well in an equal way to how it does about women? If not then what's the point? Gender bias at its finest.
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    yes, yes we do, and rightly so. here here
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    Absolutely not. If anything the opposite is true.
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    (Original post by RedDevilThing)
    Dismissing the significance of physical violence is in no way comparable to being told to 'get back in the kitchen', a phrase that is largely considered to be a harmless joke, you chose to get on with your day and it doesn't affect you further. But the view that a woman hitting a man is okay and 'deserved' does certainly exist (see the video in my post) and it is dangerous. A violent woman could get away with several cases of assault if this view were to make its way into a jury.

    No she couldnt, she would get charged with assault as well she should. And that 'harmless joke' actually belittles and patronizes women as well as enforces the view that we shouldnt be working and it enforces the view to others that it is ok to make these jokes which it isnt as its offensive. But tbh there are worse things happening out there to women and better things worth moaning about.

    Of course women don't want to serve on the front line, do you really think men do? Modern women expect to be treated as independent and equal to men, so they shouldn't expect men to take bullets for them if they were required to serve on the front line.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/dailymus...front-lines/2/

    Actually if i was interested in a military career, i would want to fight on the front line. Why shouldnt I want to? Its the defence of my country, it would be my job. In fact until you just pointed it out now and it led to my google searching, i was actually shocked to learn that women could not fight on the front line. Also by protect them i meant stop them being kidnapped and sexually assaulted which could potentially happen (in fact women being raped is an issue in the military - addressed in my link above), those kind of things, not actually take a bullet for them.

    Yes, it is sickening. But I was trying to avoid responses like this by saying that I was talking about the western world. In third world countries and the middle east women definitely have it worse. And whilst the conditions for the typical male circumcision may be better, it doesn't justify it. It's still performed on many infants unable to consent to it.

    I fully agree that more needs to be done to help women in third world and middle eastern countries. But it doesn't mean we should forget about sexism that occurs closer to home.
    If you were only talking about western countries, then yes the circumcision of infants for no good reason is a disgrace. I would be interested to know how much it happens in the UK, I know, unfortunately, it is regular practice in America.

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