[petzneo]

(Original post by Astronomical)
The referee made a mistake in the womens fencing semi-final too, but I don't you advertising petitions to have that overturned, either... In any case, there is no appealing process in the Olympics.

You'd be staggered how common that view is in the North east. Living here feels like living on another planet, and not in a good way.


Where is your petition to overturn the women's fencing semi-final decision? In any case there isn't any appeals process so say the BBC commentators, so good luck having that decision overturned via an appeal.

Even if the decision isn't overturned, someone needs to know that this is wrong. We have to show our support regardless.

[Hopple]

(Original post by Astronomical)
The referee made a mistake in the womens fencing semi-final too, but I don't you advertising petitions to have that overturned, either... In any case, there is no appealing process in the Olympics.

Is that the one where the South Korean lady sat on the platform for ages afterwards? Could you explain it to me? They were level on points but the Korean had a yellow card (I think) so would have lost anyway even if it had ended before the hits?

[Multitalented me]

(Original post by siani-chan)
Oh gosh. I really don't understand how some people can be so intolerant - I especially don't understand why some people are so against Germans in particular. I admit that I find many other cultures and languages fascinating so obviously I am very tolerant, but I really can't get my head around why some people aren't.

Probably still whole a grudge about the war. Don't know why though, that was a long time ago & it wasn't exactly their fault for the actions of the Nazi's I've got nothing against them personally & even have a German friend at Uni who's a complete gentleman

[nightmare91]

(Original post by Hopple)
Is that the one where the South Korean lady sat on the platform for ages afterwards? Could you explain it to me? They were level on points but the Korean had a yellow card (I think) so would have lost anyway even if it had ended before the hits?

This is what happened: The Korean and the German both had 5 hits after 9 minutes. In fencing that means there will be another minute of fencing where the one who scores first, wins it. Similar to the golden goal rule in football. In Epee (there are three styles of fencing, Epee is one of them) simultaneous hits are allowed. They kept scoring simultaneously until the clock showed that one second was left. If nobody would have scored in the end, the Korean would have won because the rules state that just before extra time, the jury selects a fencer at random. This fencer will be declared as the winner if the there is still a tie at the end of extra time.

When the clock showed the one second (it doesn't show decimal places...), the German and Korean simultanously scored 2 times in a row. The clock still showed that one second was left. Fencing is a very quick sport though. So when the German attacked for the third time, she scored and won. The Korean claims that 3 attacks just couldn't have happened within 1 second; that she must have won and not the German. Therefore the jury had to decide whether that claim was justified. They decided after 30 (!!!) minutes that the German won. The Korean still claims that she must have moved on to the final. It's a very difficult situation and it's a shame that the clock doesn't show decimal places. If it did, it would make things so much easier. Experts say that the clock was probably at 1.9 seconds but showed '1 seconds'. That's why the German was able to attack three times in a row and win.

I personally can't understand the hate towards us Germans. I know very few British are like that, but how can someone be so upset just because the Germans won the cycling due to disqualification of both the British and the Chinese. Rules are rules. It's a shame that the Chinese didn't get the gold medal (they had broken 2 World records or something like that before the final?) but they broke the rules. The Germans didn't. Hence they are the winners.

[Astronomical]

(Original post by Hopple)
Is that the one where the South Korean lady sat on the platform for ages afterwards? Could you explain it to me? They were level on points but the Korean had a yellow card (I think) so would have lost anyway even if it had ended before the hits?

The score was level at 5-5 when the clock went to 0, and she would have gone through due to a "priority ruling" which she was awarded by random at the start of the additional time, meaning if no further hits elapsed, she'd have won. The ref added another full second to the game after the clock hit zero due to a time-keeping error. In the extra second, the German got a hit, winning the game.

The South Korean got a yellow card afterwards for refusing to leave the stage after an hour, so that wouldn't have affected the game result.

Read more about it here.

[Astronomical]

(Original post by nightmare91)
This is what happened: The Korean and the German both had 5 hits after 9 minutes. In fencing that means there will be another minute of fencing where the one who scores first, wins it. Similar to the golden goal rule in football. In Epee (there are three styles of fencing, Epee is one of them) simultaneous hits are allowed. They kept scoring simultaneously until the clock showed that one second was left. If nobody would have scored in the end, the Korean would have won because the rules state that just before extra time, the jury selects a fencer at random. This fencer will be declared as the winner if the there is still a tie at the end of extra time.

When the clock showed the one second (it doesn't show decimal places...), the German and Korean simultanously scored 2 times in a row. The clock still showed that one second was left. Fencing is a very quick sport though. So when the German attacked for the third time, she scored and won. The Korean claims that 3 attacks just couldn't have happened within 1 second; that she must have won and not the German. Therefore the jury had to decide whether that claim was justified. They decided after 30 (!!!) minutes that the German won. The Korean still claims that she must have moved on to the final. It's a very difficult situation and it's a shame that the clock doesn't show decimal places. If it did, it would make things so much easier. Experts say that the clock was probably at 1.9 seconds but showed '1 seconds'. That's why the German was able to attack three times in a row and win.

I personally can't understand the hate towards us Germans. I know very few British are like that, but how can someone be so upset just because the Germans won the cycling due to disqualification of both the British and the Chinese. Rules are rules. It's a shame that the Chinese didn't get the gold medal (they had broken 2 World records or something like that before the final?) but they broke the rules. The Germans didn't. Hence they are the winners.

The bold is utter rubbish. It's a priority ruling, not a "random selection" by a jury.

[nightmare91]

(Original post by Astronomical)
The bold is utter rubbish. It's a priority ruling, not a "random selection" by a jury.

No it's not. I might have chosen the wrong words but it's not a 'priority ruling'. It's like a lottery: No priority needed, world rankings don't matter either. It's like the lottery, the winner gets drawn. Of course there is the possibility that the German media and pundits on TV told a lie. Then I'd be happy to see an official source that states 'priority ruling'.

EDIT: 'Each match is called a bout. Bouts last three minutes or until one competitor has scored 15 points, whichever comes first. If the time limit runs out before either fencer has scored 15 points, the fencer with the most points wins. If at nine minutes the score is tied, a minute of sudden-death is added. Before the minute of sudden-death begins, lots are drawn to decide who will be the winner if nobody scores.'

source: http://www.life123.com/sports/martia...-fencing.shtml

[Astronomical]

(Original post by nightmare91)
No it's not. I might have chosen the wrong words but it's not a 'priority ruling'. It's like a lottery: No priority needed, world rankings don't matter either. It's like the lottery, the winner gets drawn. Of course there is the possibility that the German media and pundits on TV told a lie. Then I'd be happy to see an official source that states 'priority ruling'.

EDIT: 'Each match is called a bout. Bouts last three minutes or until one competitor has scored 15 points, whichever comes first. If the time limit runs out before either fencer has scored 15 points, the fencer with the most points wins. If at nine minutes the score is tied, a minute of sudden-death is added. Before the minute of sudden-death begins, lots are drawn to decide who will be the winner if nobody scores.'

source: http://www.life123.com/sports/martia...-fencing.shtml

The Korean was given priority at random. She wasn't "chosen" as you initially suggested she was.

[nightmare91]

(Original post by Astronomical)
The Korean was given priority at random. She wasn't "chosen" as you initially suggested she was.

Then I am sorry for my bad English but 'random' was the key word. You just said 'priority ruling' which sounded like (at least to me) that there wasn't any randomness involved; that the jury gave the Korean priority based on anything else but randomness. I guess we were both right then. And it doesn't really matter anyway. The post was about what happened and not about the rules

[siani-chan]

(Original post by Multitalented me)
Probably still whole a grudge about the war. Don't know why though, that was a long time ago & it wasn't exactly their fault for the actions of the Nazi's I've got nothing against them personally & even have a German friend at Uni who's a complete gentleman

Probably, it's so pathetic.

I have a lot of friends through youth exchanges who are German and they are all lovely, lovely people. I wish people wouldn't be so judgemental.

[Astronomical]

(Original post by siani-chan)
Probably, it's so pathetic.

I have a lot of friends through youth exchanges who are German and they are all lovely, lovely people. I wish people wouldn't be so judgemental.

The Germany is the UK's best friend... everyone else is going bankrupt on us!

Apparently, Germans can't say squirrel? Anyone Germans here feeling up to the challenge?

[Astronomical]

(Original post by nightmare91)
Then I am sorry for my bad English but 'random' was the key word. You just said 'priority ruling' which sounded like (at least to me) that there wasn't any randomness involved; that the jury gave the Korean priority based on anything else but randomness. I guess we were both right then. And it doesn't really matter anyway. The post was about what happened and not about the rules

Indeed, no matter.

[Hopple]

(Original post by nightmare91)
This is what happened: The Korean and the German both had 5 hits after 9 minutes. In fencing that means there will be another minute of fencing where the one who scores first, wins it. Similar to the golden goal rule in football. In Epee (there are three styles of fencing, Epee is one of them) simultaneous hits are allowed. They kept scoring simultaneously until the clock showed that one second was left. If nobody would have scored in the end, the Korean would have won because the rules state that just before extra time, the jury selects a fencer at random. This fencer will be declared as the winner if the there is still a tie at the end of extra time.

Do they tell the fencers in advance who will win if nobody scores? That seems a bit odd, surely they should be left to fence and only once they have finished and can't be separated should the randomness be brought in?

When the clock showed the one second (it doesn't show decimal places...), the German and Korean simultanously scored 2 times in a row. The clock still showed that one second was left. Fencing is a very quick sport though. So when the German attacked for the third time, she scored and won. The Korean claims that 3 attacks just couldn't have happened within 1 second; that she must have won and not the German. Therefore the jury had to decide whether that claim was justified. They decided after 30 (!!!) minutes that the German won. The Korean still claims that she must have moved on to the final. It's a very difficult situation and it's a shame that the clock doesn't show decimal places. If it did, it would make things so much easier. Experts say that the clock was probably at 1.9 seconds but showed '1 seconds'. That's why the German was able to attack three times in a row and win.

Clocks wouldn't work like that Surely 1 second left means either 0.5 to 1.49 (mathematically correct, but unlikely), 0 to 0.99 or 1 to 1.99 seconds are left, so only a whole second in that range rather than the 2 if it could mean 1.9? I read about the clock being reset to 1 when it went to zero too, what was that about?

I personally can't understand the hate towards us Germans. I know very few British are like that, but how can someone be so upset just because the Germans won the cycling due to disqualification of both the British and the Chinese. Rules are rules. It's a shame that the Chinese didn't get the gold medal (they had broken 2 World records or something like that before the final?) but they broke the rules. The Germans didn't. Hence they are the winners.

I don't hate the Germans for it, but people want to watch events to find out who is best at the events. If the best are knocked out for some reason other than being beaten for speed/height/strength, it sort of sours the whole thing because everyone knows the winners (in this case Germany) didn't win by being the best, rather they won because the best screwed up.

(Original post by Astronomical)
The score was level at 5-5 when the clock went to 0, and she would have gone through due to a "priority ruling" which she was awarded by random at the start of the additional time, meaning if no further hits elapsed, she'd have won. The ref added another full second to the game after the clock hit zero due to a time-keeping error. In the extra second, the German got a hit, winning the game.

Wasn't it during the added on second that it took too long?

The South Korean got a yellow card afterwards for refusing to leave the stage after an hour, so that wouldn't have affected the game result.

The video here shows she has a yellow during the fight, or does the yellow indicate priority?

Read more about it here.

Thanks, it helped. A bit

[nightmare91]

(Original post by Astronomical)
The Germany is the UK's best friend... everyone else is going bankrupt on us!

Apparently, Germans can't say squirrel? Anyone Germans here feeling up to the challenge?

Indeed, Germany is actually Britain's best friend. And we are so similar as well (although no German or British would ever admit it )

I can say squirrel! But it's true. Many of my former classmates had problems saying 'squirrel' or 'unfortunately'. Any word with a 'th' in it is also quite difficult to pronounce for the Germans.

(Original post by Hopple)

Clocks wouldn't work like that Surely 1 second left means either 0.5 to 1.49 (mathematically correct, but unlikely), 0 to 0.99 or 1 to 1.99 seconds are left, so only a whole second in that range rather than the 2 if it could mean 1.9? I read about the clock being reset to 1 when it went to zero too, what was that about?

That's what I thought. I didn't understand how that could have worked. A friend of mine (who is a fencer) told me that whenever the clock is 'inbetween' a second, that is 0.5 seconds or 1.8 seconds, and the fencer scores, the clock is reset to the full second (1 second or 2 seconds in this example). So when the German scored, the clock was probably at 0.3 or something and they kept resetting it to 1 full second. I don't know whether this is true though, this is my friend talking In regards to the clock being reset to 1 after it had gone to zero: The clock was set to zero while they weren't fencing. It was like 2 seconds after one of those several simultaneous attacks as far as I can remember. That's why they reset it to 1 seconds. I guess we'll never know the truth

(Original post by Hopple)
I don't hate the Germans for it, but people want to watch events to find out who is best at the events. If the best are knocked out for some reason other than being beaten for speed/height/strength, it sort of sours the whole thing because everyone knows the winners (in this case Germany) didn't win by being the best, rather they won because the best screwed up.

I agree with you. Of course I was rather happy about a gold medal since Germany is doing so badly this year, but the Chinese definitely deserved to win the gold medal. But these kind of things happen in so many sports. I suppose it is part of sports and we have to accept that. I don't really understand the rule anyway

[Hopple]

(Original post by nightmare91)
That's what I thought. I didn't understand how that could have worked. A friend of mine (who is a fencer) told me that whenever the clock is 'inbetween' a second, that is 0.5 seconds or 1.8 seconds, and the fencer scores, the clock is reset to the full second (1 second or 2 seconds in this example). So when the German scored, the clock was probably at 0.3 or something and they kept resetting it to 1 full second. I don't know whether this is true though, this is my friend talking In regards to the clock being reset to 1 after it had gone to zero: The clock was set to zero while they weren't fencing. It was like 2 seconds after one of those several simultaneous attacks as far as I can remember. That's why they reset it to 1 seconds. I guess we'll never know the truth

I think the truth is that the officials screwed up and the German benefitted. Nothing dodgy in terms of favouritism, just a crap clock/timekeeper that didn't stop and/or start when it/they were supposed to

I agree with you. Of course I was rather happy about a gold medal since Germany is doing so badly this year, but the Chinese definitely deserved to win the gold medal. But these kind of things happen in so many sports. I suppose it is part of sports and we have to accept that. I don't really understand the rule anyway

I think the rule is comparable to having a running relay race where one runner does a bit more than they're supposed to before changing over, so you could just give your better runner (or cyclist) a longer stint. It makes sense to have it, but it's arguable that a relegation is harsh for what in this case benefitted the team (or teams, including GB's relegation) less than they won by anyway.