[kka25]

I will read this.

[special1ne]

(Original post by badcheesecrispy)
i think part of it is people are often lead by emotion, a baby is seen as a beautiful thing, innocent, cute, a blank canvas, as are kids

people always presume that cute baby will grow up to be an upstanding member of society and achieve in their life, but does that honestly happen all the time?

people like ian huntley, ian brady and other sickos were once cute infants

the fact is many peoples kids grow up to be not only a drain on society as children but a drain when they grow up, kids turn to crime, drugs, murder

every sick bastard on the planet was once a baby, and I think some people need to get their head out of the clouds when they presume their numerous children are all going to bring something positive to society, more often than not they dont

it might be not very nice to hear and most parents would not be happy if asked what theyd think if their ray of sunshine grew up into the next levi bellfield, but its called reality

do you think there is more criminals and nastys in the world than nice, decent, kind, hardworking folk? I do.

I agree, parents don't like to hear that their child won't always be a morally upstanding, taxpaying citizen. I believe most parents choose to ignore the harsh realities of life and raise their children in the delusion that they are:

1) amazing parents, until it starts to become difficult (like at puberty), in which case they address the symptoms of the problem (e.g. answering back, rebellion, etc) and not the cause (e.g. not listening to their children, putting their marriage or careers first); and

2) the mother and father of a genius, who is "special" and is more important than any other child in the world.

Having a child is hard enough, but in today's world, a million things make child's life difficult, most of which parents can't do anything about. So parents 'believe' something which isn't true. It allows them to set a (usually impossible) standard for that child to reach in life. It's almost impossible to break this cognitive bias (attentional), but it comforts many parents and makes parenting a little bit easier.

I say parents could do with a reality check once in a while. If you can't settle for raising an average-IQ child who will at some point lie, cheat, experiment with drugs, get into debt and lose their virginity too early for your liking - or at least one of those instances - then you shouldn't try having kids in the first place. Society have enough on its plate.

[Jackso]

(Original post by No Man)
That would make sense if the world had 3+ billion less people, so that the human race could continue developing and utilizing resources at a sustainable rate.

Uhhmmm... Basic instincts don't just suddenly disappear. They develop over time. The world's population hasn't been this large for long, dude.

[special1ne]

(Original post by Jackso)
Uhhmmm... Basic instincts don't just suddenly disappear. They develop over time. The world's population hasn't been this large for long, dude.

They do change over time. But in the last few decades, we've become more 'in control' of our lives, as a species and as individuals. Now, we can hold the decision to have a baby up to scrutiny.

We don't have to act on this instinct, we can find other ways to fulfil the desires this instinct addresses (e.g. a better career, strengthening your relationship with family, even religion, for some people!)

[spiral87]

I think the only reasons for having them by choice is if:

a) You and your partner have reached a point in your relationship where you need to introduce a 3rd party to spice it up

b) You've reached your peak of personal development and are now ready to pass on your knowledge to the next generation.

I see it as a HUGE decision to make and it baffles me when young girls get themselves pregnant at 18, 19, 20 etc. and have to leave education/chance of a good career to raise another tiny human.

[Formerly Helpful_C]

I want children to continue my name. Along the way, I will ensure that they have access to opportunities that I didn't e.g. sports clubs, trips, theatre, etc. If that makes me a future "bad" parent, then I don't want to be a "good" one.

[Claudette]

(Original post by NB_ide)
That doesn't make sense. Your children previously didn't even exist in any way and so wouldn't have cared at all. What you're talking about is why you're raising and caring for your children, not why you had them in the first place. This is often confused and reasons for looking after children well are commonly given for creating children in the first place. It doesn't work.

Same as anyone really, none of us exsisted before and none of us would be having this conversation had it not been for the choices our parents made.

Why did I have my children? Because I wanted to pass on my experiences of life to them and to understand what my parents went through with me. And because Mother Nature flicked that switch.

The reasons for having them and bringing them up are the same are they not? Because to me they are.

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-S5830

[green.tea]

Well obviously the reason is to pass on your genes. Thats where the desire comes from. But then we think "well whats actually in it for me" because we cant rationalise the benefit of an instinctive desire beyond "i desire it" other than to say "I want to pass on my genes". But we dont see a benefit of doing that in reason and thought and only instinct. Personally I think a state of being where ones mind says whats in it for me and instincts say procreate is dysfunctional and we should see instinctive wants as much our wants as we do with the more easily rationalised wants of mind. You can expand this to other things. Why die for your country? Well your country has all your genes and so its beneficial to your genes for you to die. Were it not you wouldnt have a genetic make up that allowed such a thing. You could say "i dont care about my genes" but you do, just not the part of you that thinks about it. Why pull against ones self?

[philistine]

Progeny.

That's all I've got.

[cl_steele]

(Original post by special1ne)
To raise is a child is said to be 'the hardest job in the world', but a seemingly wonderful thing to live for nonetheless. Obviously, there are personal reasons why a person or people would take on this huge task, which vary for everyone who does. There's no right or wrong about that. However, I think there are cases where people have children for selfish reasons. The main one being that the parent(s) can live through their children vicariously. (e.g. a former gymnast who forces their child into the sport from a young age).

It's one thing for parents to raise their children in their own way; that's the parents' right. It's quite another to bring a life into the world for your own gain. Some people want children to use as status symbols. Some couples have children for the sake of a relationship, "to prove their love for each other". Some people feel babies are a way to curry favour from their families and friends (and in some cases, the state). Nowadays, some people simply want children just to say they've got kids (that is to say, they feel having a child 'completes' them).

There are also those couples and individuals who want children so that they're not alone in the world. That wouldn't be so bad if they didn't see having a child as just a means to an end.
I'm aware the above only counts (if at all) for the minority of cases. Most people have good intentions when it comes to having children, and they do so when they're ready - financially, emotionally and mentally. What does everyone else think?

care to prove that?

[badcheesecrispy]

(Original post by cl_steele)
care to prove that?

He is right

a lot of mostly younger women i think have them because they dont have much else going on in life and they need a 'purpose'

they are the ones on facebook who are in their early 20s yet every picture and status is child related and their job is 'tylers mummi xx'

these to me are people who have decided to make another life because theirs is boring, they lack intellectually and will for certain be earning more from spitting them out than working in the local petrol garage

sorry if you dont like to hear that, but its true

why would a jobless 19 year old with a boyfriend whos in and out of prison think its a good idea to breed? Do you and they honestly think this predictment benefits the poor thing born? No, it benefits the parents, usually the mother who then has something to stabilize her life and earn her an income, whilst being excused from the real working world for having the sacred job of 'mummi'. People who choose to have children do so mostly for their own selfishness, and im a parent

[cl_steele]

(Original post by badcheesecrispy)
He is right

a lot of mostly younger women i think have them because they dont have much else going on in life and they need a 'purpose'

they are the ones on facebook who are in their early 20s yet every picture and status is child related and their job is 'tylers mummi xx'

these to me are people who have decided to make another life because theirs is boring, they lack intellectually and will for certain be earning more from spitting them out than working in the local petrol garage

sorry if you dont like to hear that, but its true

why would a jobless 19 year old with a boyfriend whos in and out of prison think its a good idea to breed? Do you and they honestly think this predictment benefits the poor thing born? No, it benefits the parents, usually the mother who then has something to stabilize her life and earn her an income, whilst being excused from the real working world for having the sacred job of 'mummi'. People who choose to have children do so mostly for their own selfishness, and im a parent

Except thats not the rule and the poster didnt mention anything about young mums he generalised all mums under this...
also theres a difference between being proud of your child and wanting to show people that your proud to using it as a ticket to a higher social circle.

[jaek13456]

When people go on about the word "selfish" on certain matters it infuriates me. This being one of them.

Is it selfish for someone to decide to train to try and win a gold at the olympics stopping someone else from getting the gold.

Is it selfish for someone to donate to charity just a portion of their money ?

Is it selfish for someone to not pay someone else their wage they've earnt.

When you look at it like that, if we just look at how it's phrased, that does look selfish.

But whatever the reason someone may have for having children. It's when they are alive that the word "selfish" is truly bad.

Leaving the child with a single mother/father = selfish
Not feeding the child or similar situation because you don't like looking after it = selfish
Preventing the child from having an opinion different from yours = selfish.

Whatever your reason for having children before, as long as you feel ready to give the children you have a good bringing up, there shouldn't be any problems.

If my parents wanted someone to look after them when they are old, I don't really care whether or not they had me for that reason. All I know is that they've been caring and supportive my whole childhood and will continue to do so while they are able to do so.

The concern should not be what a parents reason for having children is (to an extent). It's how they bring up the child once it exists.

Also, when people go on about how they are "rotting" for the rest of their lives. There are plenty of people over the age of 80 who are having difficulties, but are still enjoying their family live out their lives. Again that may sound a selfish reason for having children, but your children aren't "rotting". They are living.

Some things happen naturally to us that we can't stop like cancer and major road accidents etc. But it isn't the parents selfish reason that brought that to the child 99% of the time.

People should learn that not all selfish reasons are against the law, as alarming as that may sound to be.

[iLikeCupcakes]

Personally so I can teach them all the wonderful things about the world, how to spot the stars at night and experience flying on plane for the very first time. Teach them things I never knew or found out to late. Hopefully a little mini me to better the world or just to simply enjoy this thing they call life.

Oh and the idea that "someone to raise to make up for my own failures in life" is not selfish isn't life about pushing forward and improving?

[green.tea]

(Original post by iLikeCupcakes)
Personally so I can teach them all the wonderful things about the world, how to spot the stars at night and experience flying on plane for the very first time. Teach them things I never knew or found out to late. Hopefully a little mini me to better the world or just to simply enjoy this thing they call life.

Oh and the idea that "someone to raise to make up for my own failures in life" is not selfish isn't life about pushing forward and improving?

Yeah. Some people think their kids need to learn the stuff they learned in the same way they did. Pointless and i suspect theres a slight element of something not as strong as envy but a similar sort of thing. "Im not giving you all my cash cos you gotta learn you dont get anywhere in life without doing a fair days work for a fair days pay" type rubbish. The whole point is to improve, pass on what youve learned. People say "oh but kids dont listen", its important to be someone your kids genuinely respect and like. If your a boring dork or a stick in the mud obviously they wont listen. You think very much like me. Its not wanting to push your kids to make up for your failings but looking at the reasons for your failings, learning from them and passing it on. Pushing forward and improving is what its about.

[iLikeCupcakes]

(Original post by green.tea)
Yeah. Some people think their kids need to learn the stuff they learned in the same way they did. Pointless and i suspect theres a slight element of something not as strong as envy but a similar sort of thing. "Im not giving you all my cash cos you gotta learn you dont get anywhere in life without doing a fair days work for a fair days pay" type rubbish. The whole point is to improve, pass on what youve learned. People say "oh but kids dont listen", its important to be someone your kids genuinely respect and like. If your a boring dork or a stick in the mud obviously they wont listen. You think very much like me. Its not wanting to push your kids to make up for your failings but looking at the reasons for your failings, learning from them and passing it on. Pushing forward and improving is what its about.

Seems as though people don't want to improve or feel 'selfish' for doing so. I suppose it can be misinterpreted or expressed incorrectly.
Having a child imo is the most selfless thing one can do. Its no longer about 'you' anymore.

[Tensei]

I'm having them to carry on my name and give this world a new person to hopefully make a difference 😊


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[green.tea]

(Original post by iLikeCupcakes)
Seems as though people don't want to improve or feel 'selfish' for doing so. I suppose it can be misinterpreted or expressed incorrectly.
Having a child imo is the most selfless thing one can do. Its no longer about 'you' anymore.

Theres this silly argument that says giving to charity is selfish cos you do it to make your self feel good. Its a pity people have nothing better to do.

It does fulfill a desire we have to take positives from mishaps but in the same way as the charity thing it does also benefit others. Feelings like generosity are there for that reason. It makes you happy because youve been generous but the whole you, which includes that feeling, has still done something positive.

[marky--mark]

The human race, like pretty much every other animal species on the planet is 'hard-wired' to want children, if you like. It's just instinct- the basic desire to preserve one's own gene, in the words of Richard Dawkins.

Of course, that doesn't mean that that's how we think of it. Most of us want kids for emotional reasons- so we've got someone to spoil, or something to share with a partner- or indeed for economic reasons (looking after us when we're old and past it). It doesn't mean that everyone wants children, just that the majority of the members of the species do.

For myself, I do want children. I'm cautious about it though- I don't want to be the same kind of dad to my kids that mine was for me and my brothers. I want to be able to see them grow and to be able to think "I made that". I want to be able to be proud of them, instead of looking back on my life when I'm 70 and thinking "Well, this is where it stops." I guess you could call it motivational fear.

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by kka25)
I will read this.

Yep.