[Dee Leigh]

(Original post by Scot_land)
People like him are a joke. Justifying everything with religion. When islam infact has nothing to do with "honour killings", just made up bull****, in that uneducated ****hole. pakistan. Kids ovbiously under the thumb from his parents. inb4 marriage to cousin hahaha

Haha!!

Just disgraceful and such a filthy mentality.

[Xotol]

I can't be the only one wondering how you got this:

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Sleeping around with random boys, wearing immodest clothes etc. is going off the rails.

from this:

Spoiler:

Show

(Original post by Perseveranze)
1. The girl went off the rails. This cannot be disputed.

---

Once over 16 she tried to find boyfriends by leaving her mobile number on pieces of paper, or else accepting similar notes from them which she then entrusted with a white school friend.

On one occasion a boy left his number on a piece of paper hidden beneath a plant pot at the Trafford Centre, Manchester.

Another would-be suitor, Ajaz Ahmed, met Shafilea while working at his parents’ cash and carry in the Longsight area of the city.

Her father had been a customer for many years, and on one occasion she went with him she slipped Ajaz a piece of paper with her phone number on it, and said `Give me a ring`.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ever-have.html

---

^talk about desperation. She would've just ruined her life sleeping around with random people who would've probably abused her any ways. Hopefully, as you said, that she didn't fornicate.

So basically, you're making a massive assumption based on her talking to boys. Yes, that would inevitably have led to her ruining her life by whoring herself out to people that would have abused her.

(Original post by Dee Leigh)
To be honest, I believe that a major part of the problem is... people like you with the attitudes you have. Those kind of attitudes are never healthy for any family/community/culture.

Disgusting and disgraceful.

Once people adopt an ideology/culture that conflicts with another ideology/culture in some parts, it almost becomes like a us vs them attitude. While the killing is no doubt despicable and unjustified, there will always be an argument from someone trying to make a case against that culture (in this case: actions leading to random and uncontrolled sex). It's an Islam vs rest of world attitude. Worst thing is: it doesn't need to be that way.

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by Dee Leigh)
Wow. Just wow.

Being Westernised doesn't mean going off the rails.

Ugh, hopefully this will be the last post.

Some parts of western culture are ok, however other parts are not. And it's when you indulge in the "other parts" do you go off the rails. Drinking, smoking, gambling, sleeping with randomers, partying all night, wearing immodest clothes etc. You know how it is best.

(Original post by Dee Leigh)
Don't forget, a tragic muder has occured. That's what all this comes down to.

That is very shallow thinking that completely excludes the bigger picture. Murders happen all the time, it's nothing new. What needs to be looked at is why this murder happened in the first place, what was the cause, and how do we prevent something like this?

Because really, what's the point in obsessing over a murder when you can't pull yourself to look past it? It's clear, there's a cultural problem here, this is what it comes down to, not the actual murder. The murder is just a line of thousands thats happened in the past, and will happen again unless something is done about it. It's nothing to specifically be shocked about.

It's called dealing with the "root of the cause".

(Original post by Dee Leigh)
You know what. I guess you are right, let's just agree to disagree. You really don't get it anyway but my points in my previous posts all still stand.

I do get your point, but I don't think you get mine. You have this mentality to concentrate on things that have no relevance, simply appealing to emotion. You can't stand to think that the alleged victim in this could ever share even a shred of blame. You're just bent on the thought that the parents just randomly decided to abuse and kill their daughter, as if for fun. And due to this limitation in your thinking that you have, you will never understand my point.

You need to learn to be objective, otherwise you'll always keep repeating the same mistakes and never find a resolution.

(Original post by Dee Leigh)
To be honest, I believe that a major part of the problem is... people like you with the attitudes you have. Those kind of attitudes are never healthy for any family/community/culture.

Yeah, blame me

(Original post by Dee Leigh)
Disgusting and disgraceful.

Your denial is, yes.

(Original post by Dee Leigh)
One more question though: if you had a sister and she was treated just like Shafilea and then murdered, then what would you do?

If she was abused and killed, then I would obviously feel that it was wrong, and tell the perpetrators that what they did was wrong based on religious grounds, and they need to serve their time for doing the crime. And that's it.

What would you do?

(Original post by Time Tourist)
I think you've given ample evidence as to what your instincts are and where your sympathies lie...

Towards solving the root problem.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Ugh, hopefully this will be the last post.

Some parts of western culture are ok, however other parts are not. And it's when you indulge in the "other parts" do you go off the rails. Drinking, smoking, gambling, sleeping with randomers, partying all night, wearing immodest clothes etc. You know how it is best.

.

Hopefully, yes.

Im sure too some parts of islamic culture are ok, but various are not, such as killing female members of your family becuase they act westernised.

[FrigidSymphony]

Everytime he posts, I want to punch him in his stupid ****ing smug wee face. You all know who I mean.

[Maerzin]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Ugh, hopefully this will be the last post.

Some parts of western culture are ok, however other parts are not. And it's when you indulge in the "other parts" do you go off the rails. Drinking, smoking, gambling, sleeping with randomers, partying all night, wearing immodest clothes etc. You know how it is best.



That is very shallow thinking that completely excludes the bigger picture. Murders happen all the time, it's nothing new. What needs to be looked at is why this murder happened in the first place, what was the cause, and how do we prevent something like this?

Because really, what's the point in obsessing over a murder when you can't pull yourself to look past it? It's clear, there's a cultural problem here, this is what it comes down to, not the actual murder. The murder is just a line of thousands thats happened in the past, and will happen again unless something is done about it. It's nothing to specifically be shocked about.

It's called dealing with the "root of the cause".



I do get your point, but I don't think you get mine. You have this mentality to concentrate on things that have no relevance, simply appealing to emotion. You can't stand to think that the alleged victim in this could ever share even a shred of blame. You're just bent on the thought that the parents just randomly decided to abuse and kill their daughter, as if for fun. And due to this limitation in your thinking that you have, you will never understand my point.

You need to learn to be objective, otherwise you'll always keep repeating the same mistakes and never find a resolution.



Yeah, blame me



Your denial is, yes.



If she was abused and killed, then I would obviously feel that it was wrong, and tell the perpetrators that what they did was wrong based on religious grounds, and they need to serve their time for doing the crime. And that's it.

What would you do?




Towards solving the root problem.

It's good to be objective and look at a situation or crime from different angles without simply letting emotion override reason. However, what many are trying to say is that her behaviour did not justify her parents' actions. Furthermore, I don't think many agree with your definition of "off the rails".

Now I'm not saying you're objectively wrong but the line of reasoning you have taken can be applied to any situation or crime whatsoever. The blame can be spread out in a varied manner or even shifted to one side completely based on a person's personal morality. I understand you're trying to place some blame on the daughter down to her behaviour despite not holding her solely responsible. You must understand to many this appears to be an abhorrent viewpoint just as some views may seem unjustifiable to you.

[Dee Leigh]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
Everytime he posts, I want to punch him in his stupid ****ing smug wee face. You all know who I mean.

Same here.

[Dee Leigh]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Ugh, hopefully this will be the last post.

Some parts of western culture are ok, however other parts are not. And it's when you indulge in the "other parts" do you go off the rails. Drinking, smoking, gambling, sleeping with randomers, partying all night, wearing immodest clothes etc. You know how it is best.



That is very shallow thinking that completely excludes the bigger picture. Murders happen all the time, it's nothing new. What needs to be looked at is why this murder happened in the first place, what was the cause, and how do we prevent something like this?

Because really, what's the point in obsessing over a murder when you can't pull yourself to look past it? It's clear, there's a cultural problem here, this is what it comes down to, not the actual murder. The murder is just a line of thousands thats happened in the past, and will happen again unless something is done about it. It's nothing to specifically be shocked about.

It's called dealing with the "root of the cause".



I do get your point, but I don't think you get mine. You have this mentality to concentrate on things that have no relevance, simply appealing to emotion. You can't stand to think that the alleged victim in this could ever share even a shred of blame. You're just bent on the thought that the parents just randomly decided to abuse and kill their daughter, as if for fun. And due to this limitation in your thinking that you have, you will never understand my point.

You need to learn to be objective, otherwise you'll always keep repeating the same mistakes and never find a resolution.



Yeah, blame me



Your denial is, yes.



If she was abused and killed, then I would obviously feel that it was wrong, and tell the perpetrators that what they did was wrong based on religious grounds, and they need to serve their time for doing the crime. And that's it.

What would you do?




Towards solving the root problem.

Wow.

Okay you really don't get my points or what I have been saying throughout this thread.

You make the mistake of believing I have a shallow and emotive way of thinking when I don't and you say I'm in denial when I am not, I see things as they are. I'm not the one who is being shallow, emotive and in denial, YOU ARE.

And with the way people like you continue to think, there will never be a resolution within the community - people will continue to think that culture and parents are above the law and the 'blame the victim' approach will alway be applied.

[Rat_Bag]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Ugh, hopefully this will be the last post.

Some parts of western culture are ok, however other parts are not. And it's when you indulge in the "other parts" do you go off the rails. Drinking, smoking, gambling, sleeping with randomers, partying all night, wearing immodest clothes etc. You know how it is best.

And was Shafia Ahmed doing these things?

If somebody does these things, do they deserve to be killed?

(Original post by Perseveranze)
That is very shallow thinking that completely excludes the bigger picture. Murders happen all the time, it's nothing new. What needs to be looked at is why this murder happened in the first place, what was the cause, and how do we prevent something like this?

Because really, what's the point in obsessing over a murder when you can't pull yourself to look past it? It's clear, there's a cultural problem here, this is what it comes down to, not the actual murder. The murder is just a line of thousands thats happened in the past, and will happen again unless something is done about it. It's nothing to specifically be shocked about.

It's called dealing with the "root of the cause".

Your way of delivering your stance sounds depressingly similar to the way Zionists justify and defend Israel's crimes. Just thought you should be aware of this.

(Original post by Perseveranze)
I do get your point, but I don't think you get mine. You have this mentality to concentrate on things that have no relevance, simply appealing to emotion. You can't stand to think that the alleged victim in this could ever share even a shred of blame. You're just bent on the thought that the parents just randomly decided to abuse and kill their daughter, as if for fun. And due to this limitation in your thinking that you have, you will never understand my point.

Ditto

(Original post by Perseveranze)
You need to learn to be objective, otherwise you'll always keep repeating the same mistakes and never find a resolution.

Funny how you, of all people, are trying to lecture people on the need to be objective.

[Will Lucky]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Some parts of western culture are ok, however other parts are not. And it's when you indulge in the "other parts" do you go off the rails. Drinking, smoking, gambling, sleeping with randomers, partying all night, wearing immodest clothes etc. You know how it is best.

Someone needs to open there perspective a little. An individual can do whatever they want as long as its lawful.

[ProfessorPester]

Always disliked religion overall.