[wolf-pack]

I don't think the student council should be banned- to be honest I never noticed anything changing at the hands of the students and their opinions but I never attended a meeting. I went to my first council meeting a few weeks ago and I did feel as though I had inside knowledge of what was happening in the school and I understood why the teachers made the decisions they did.
My school also has boxes for students to submit their suggestions- nobody really used them but one girl did asking for Pot Noodles in the canteen and there they appeared the following week (healthy school my ass).

[fire2burn]

(Original post by JamalAhmed)
But there is the chance that some students will get teachers based on their looks, no?

I don't think pupils views should be the final say, but they should be allowed to make their views heard. If those views are valid criticisms then they should be listened to, for instance if they identify that a certain candidate is a poor communicator. Hopefully though the teachers would be wise enough to ignore any silly critiques about looks and disregard those

[ChrisN]

Lots of interesting points here

(Original post by fire2burn)
My old school used to get pupils involved with the hiring process of teachers, pupils would be asked their views on the candidates being trialled. Worked out quite well, I remember one instance where a prospective teacher was amazing on paper (very highly qualified in all areas, lots of industry experience, etc) but when it actually came to down to it she couldn't teach for toffee. She had no real people skills, wasn't particularly inspiring and people would simply switch off and ignore her. The other candidate had less experience and wasn't as highly qualified but had vastly superior skills in the classroom, he could grab everyone's attention and had the patience to sit down and explain everything thoroughly taking his time to use different angles of approach when pupils didn't understand a certain concept. The school took the pupils views on board and hired the second candidate despite him having a weaker CV qualifications wise.

The other end of this is that my 9 year old's best mate was on the committee for providing input on their new head teacher selection. Surely that is taking things too far? It wouldn't take much to know how to get their vote, and their objective critical interviewing skills need a little work at age 9!

The school also listened in other areas such as changing the timetable from 45 minute lessons to hourly lessons, uniform policy, funding for extra curricular activities, etc. It helped students to feel engaged and gave them a sense of pride and responsibility in the school.

This for me is what it is all about. Sensible changes that improve the learning environment using the unique perspective of the student as the consumer, and therefore result in a more productive school with increased student engagement.

I think schools and teachers should all focus on how to make that happen, rather than quieten or even get rid of the student voice.

I don't believe that any profession/business/organisation should be immune from criticism or development from the people it is there to serve. In any case if teachers are allowed lobbying bodies and unions so should students.

I agree. Maybe that's what TSR should do!

If teachers want to remove the voice from students, maybe the fair approach is to remove their voice as well and ban all union membership? See how long it takes for them to feel disenfranchised and dejected, perhaps only then they will understand why silencing opinions results in discontent and poor motivation.

That sort of negative push-back is what happens if you start a negative debate up. That's what wound me up about the original suggestion to "get rid of the student voice". One party pokes the other with a stick, and the other pokes back with another negative stick. It's not helpful to finding a positive way of improving things for students and teachers. If all parties focus the discussion on what works well and what doesn't work well, and what we can learn from that, then we can find ways to make things better together

[chrislpp]

I'm sure that would go really well.

In my old school it would go something like pampering the head boy and girl and some randomly selected ''students'' who also happen to be their mummies and daddies little angels who will do anything they are told by someone their senior.

[NDGAARONDI]

What do teachers view themselves as in relation to their students?

When I was at my FE College I was asked if I was willing to attend a short meeting one afternoon during the half day and got asked for suggestions and the only thing I can remember was that I said it might be a good idea to have law and politics no longer clashing as these two subjects could provide a possible route to a related degree with multiple choices. We made allowances for maths, chemistry, biology and physics all to be separate for the natural science and medicine-minded students. It was implemented and proved popular.

I think for larger FE colleges may be lecturers could see students views on syllabus because of content? Larger colleges may allow for two classes teaching a different syllabus each. Can't remember the exam board but there was a really nice range for history 'A' level involving the Plantagenet era, Saxons etc. I know a lot of people went off history for the lack of variety in the eras they studied. Oh, and perhaps there are some subjects that larger FE colleges could be missing out on teaching? I know there are budgets but mine taught archaeology but I don't think I remember seeing philosophy in the prospectus. If there is a large enough interest and it was catered for it can have a positive feel in the learning environment. Students will fell a part of the place rather than a sheep.

[lbsf1]

In all of the schools I have been in they have made a big thing about student voice and asked for our opinion on lots of things. Doesn't mean however they took any notice of any of it.

I year 6, 5 students had wanted through their whole time in the school to run a school monthly newspaper, they had suggested it at every opportunity and were always given the answer no. In year 6 they were given the reason why, "who is going to run the newspaper" they answered we will, the school said they didn't believe it would get done, so the students answered back that if it wasn't done then surely we would be in the same positions as they were now without one. The school relented and allowed them to run a student flyer (maximum 1 double sided a4 page) ONCE A TERM.

In my secondary school they wanted to change the lessons from 4 1.25 hour lessons to 5 1 hour lessons. This involved starting the day 5 mins earlier, only 15mins break, lunch starting at 1.25 and ending the day 5mins later. All students felt that these suggestions would make the day too tiring, with lunch being so late and that for year 7's esspecially 5 lessons would mean to many textbooks and thus a very heavy bag. We were asked to vote on whether to change the timetable or not. 100% of my year voted no as did other years. It still went ahead. Thats student voice for you.

Our school lunches are almost inedible. I had a burger that after biting into it sprang back to its original shape, it also cost the same as a big mac burger. We complained at the standard of lunches, once again nothing was done.

Some students come up with stupid idea's, however the school doesn't have to (and never does) listen to them, so don't use that excuse to fob us off on why you don't listen to the reasonable idea's and suggestions. The problem I think is that the teachers incharge of student voice are inevitably those who like to talk down to pupils, hence they just enjoy ignoring your idea's thus giving them a feeling of power.


All of these are reasons why I'm not staying at my secondary school for sixth form and are going to a proper sixth form college. Lets hope things are better.

[The Epicurean]

Summerhill school in Suffolk is an interesting example. The students are given the control to create and vote for new rules within the school council where every student and member of staff carries one vote. Students at the school are given far more freedom and are completely free to choose whether they want to turn up to lessons or not. Obviously this is an extreme case, but it provides an example of the extreme case students are given a large voice in how the school is run.


Here is an Indpendent article about the school:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...ol-772976.html

[Ra Ra Ra]

(Original post by fire2burn)
My old school used to get pupils involved with the hiring process of teachers, pupils would be asked their views on the candidates being trialled. Worked out quite well, I remember one instance where a prospective teacher was amazing on paper (very highly qualified in all areas, lots of industry experience, etc) but when it actually came to down to it she couldn't teach for toffee. She had no real people skills, wasn't particularly inspiring and people would simply switch off and ignore her. The other candidate had less experience and wasn't as highly qualified but had vastly superior skills in the classroom, he could grab everyone's attention and had the patience to sit down and explain everything thoroughly taking his time to use different angles of approach when pupils didn't understand a certain concept. The school took the pupils views on board and hired the second candidate despite him having a weaker CV qualifications wise. The school also listened in other areas such as changing the timetable from 45 minute lessons to hourly lessons, uniform policy, funding for extra curricular activities, etc. It helped students to feel engaged and gave them a sense of pride and responsibility in the school.

I suspect the true thinking behind removing the student voice is that weak teachers are afraid of student criticism, and rather than trying to up their game and develop their skills they simply want to quash any criticism regardless of how valid it may be. I don't believe that any profession/business/organisation should be immune from criticism or development from the people it is there to serve. In any case if teachers are allowed lobbying bodies and unions so should students. If teachers want to remove the voice from students, maybe the fair approach is to remove their voice as well and ban all union membership? See how long it takes for them to feel disenfranchised and dejected, perhaps only then they will understand why silencing opinions results in discontent and poor motivation.

They did a similar thing at my school in regards to the teachers. I think they've stopped it, though - apparently everyone chose the teacher who made them do the less work

[Kolya]

(Original post by Junaid96)
We don't seem to be getting a huge say in how the school is run, however, for example the school had a test trial in year 7 for iPads for students. The majority of students think it's a waste of money and a really bad idea but they're going ahead with it anyway. I think particularly as sixth formers (now the most senior boys in the school as we head into upper sixth) they should have listened to us. We've been through 6 years of education at that school (longer than most teachers have stayed) and know exactly what's gone wrong and where, and no studious student I know supports the iPad idea.

That sounds to me like a good example of why we should be weary about student participation. What do the students know about using iPads in education? Very little, for they personally don't have experience of using (or teaching with) the iPads and - no matter how studious they are - they're unlikely to go investigate records of other trials that have been done.

That doesn't mean that the school administrators know any better, of course. But it's very easy for the students to end up being backseat drivers.

[The Polymath]

(Original post by Kolya)
That sounds to me like a good example of why we should be weary about student participation. What do the students know about using iPads in education? Very little, for they personally don't have experience of using (or teaching with) the iPads and - no matter how studious they are - they're unlikely to go investigate records of other trials that have been done.

That doesn't mean that the school administrators know any better, of course. But it's very easy for the students to end up being backseat drivers.

Well in all fairness a number of us already use our own iPads/tablets in school and therefore have far more experience using tablets than any member of staff. I think they should have consulted the student body on what tablets to get, as to be frank no one is more tech-savvy than a student