Mark Duggan was assassinated, claims his mother

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Reply 120

Alexandra's Box

I don't give a ****.

Those rioters disgusted me and the whole debacle is pathetic.

Reply 121

AwsomePossum

Original post by Alexandra's Box

I don't give a ****.

Those rioters disgusted me and the whole debacle is pathetic.

You may not like it minister but you cant deny... The armed police got style.

Reply 122

Swanbow

People who have recently lost a loved one often look for someone to blame, usually themselves but often not. Look at all the lawsuits against doctors for malpractice when in reality there wasn't any fault. This also reminds me of how Mohamed Al-Fayed blames MI5 for the killing of his son. It's part of the grieving process to look for some to blame for the death of your loved one, especially when you can't accept that they probably brought it upon themselves due to their lifestyle choices.

Reply 123

The Lyceum

There was a time when a mother would be ashamed to raise such a son, rather than turning here ire on the society he so selfishly abused.

Sad times.

Reply 124

r32

Original post by Snagprophet

I don't see why police would gun someone down in public with no proof and then do a risky evidence placing.

You're very naive.

"Our" police has a history of criminality and corruption. I wouldn't take their word for anything.

Original post by marcusfox

Armed police were asked to carry out the stop instead of normal police, not because they suspected he had a gun, but because they knew beforehand that they were going to blow him away - is that what is being implied?

Then they found, purely by coincidence of course, that he happened to have a gun on his person?

Pull the other one...

You trust the Police's version of events? Hah.

As above - criminality and corruption runs through the veins of our police force, along with deceit and abuse of power.

This is something I have witnessed first hand. Your other post is full of conjecture too. "Our" police are not the upstanding citizens they are often presented as.

I say this as someone with no criminal history/record. Yet, I speak from personal experience.

Original post by B-Man.

The UK is a welfare state. No one has to resort to criminality for food.

Don't be so sure of that.

I am not even an advocate of the welfare state (just so you can place my views in context) - but surviving on £80 - £100 for 2 weeks is not easy, especially in London.

Not to mention how demeaning it is for a lot of people. A lot of people are not on welfare for a few weeks, in between jobs - some of them are lifetime recipients.

Reply 125

r32

Original post by The Lyceum

There was a time when a mother would be ashamed to raise such a son, rather than turning here ire on the society he so selfishly abused.

Sad times.

There was a time when people would reserve judgment on individuals too without knowing the full facts. Newspaper sensationalism and rumours spread by the cops do not count.

Reply 126

Fullofsurprises

Original post by dennisraymondsmith

No disrespect but please stop spouting rubbish . Mark was NOT a big time gangster . My Gosh

A lot of available evidence seems to point the other way. For example, he was a nephew of Manchester gangland boss Desmond Noonan, often referred to as "Britain's Number One Crime Boss" and was often seen in his company in London. He had just purchased a gun and had it in a sock, with rounds loaded, a classic detection-evasion method used by gangs.

That's Duggan on the right.

Reply 127

dennisraymondsmith

Original post by Fullofsurprises

he was a nephew of Manchester gangland boss Desmond Noonan

Who he never knew lol .

was often seen in his company in London

No he wasn't . Where are you getting you're information from ?

Who cares?

Original post by Fullofsurprises

Are you a Daily Mail reader?

I ask because almost every time a young black man dies, they try to take advantage of the situation by printing any picture they can find that depicts the victim as a hoodlum. Unless he's a university graduate, in which case they'll print his graduation pictures.

You get loads of people posing like that in bars/clubs - it's all part of the hip-hop/grime culture.

Personally, I think it makes you look like a bit of ****. But it definitely does not bear any relevance to the question of whether he was an organised criminal or not.

Reply 130

Kibalchich

Dessie Noonan died a few years ago, yet the media still use his name like a bogeyman.

Reply 131

tomclarky

I'd like to know why he wasn't tazered.

Reply 132

Skip_Snip

Original post by Fullofsurprises

That's Duggan on the right.

I know it's far from the point, but the t-shirt on the left is bloody awesome :biggrin:

but as a whiteboy I couldn't pull it off :frown:

Reply 133

GPODT

I know a childhood friend of Mark Duggan, he told me there were several lies and inconsistencies in the official story.

Reply 134

Glory&Honour

We was carrying a gun - A GUN. Does this fact not bother anyone, has this become accepted by society now? Whether he was or was not a drug dealer, the fact that he was in possession of a firearm on British streets should surely have been a cause for concern.

Reply 135

wibletg

Original post by tomclarky

I'd like to know why he wasn't tazered.

Tasers don't work 100% of the time because the barbs don't always penetrate clothes/skin - if it fails and he manages to get a shot off it could potentially cause the death of an armed response officer, or of an innocent bystander, which is unacceptable.

Reply 136

MatureStudent36

Original post by tomclarky

I'd like to know why he wasn't tazered.

Tazers work great if somebody is carrying a knife, or sword or something similar. i.e. you can stay out of reach of them.

If they have a gun, and I assume they knew he had one, and they found one firearms have to be used. Otherwise you're asking a Police Officer to get into a position where the offender can take them out before the Police Officer can take the offender out with a Tazer.

I understand some people don't like the Police, but you can't ask them to go into risky situations where they're at a disadvantage

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 137

Dukeofwembley

he was a known drug dealer

good riddance

Reply 138

dennisraymondsmith

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/02/mark-duggan-shooting-inquiry-evidence

Mark Duggan police shooting: IPCC inquiry finds no evidence of criminality

Shooter declined to answer questions orally, instead submitting written answers later

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Vikram Dodd
The Guardian, Friday 2 August 2013 20.14 BST

Mark Duggan
Mark Duggan had been trailed by offiers on the day he was shot and was riding in a taxi forced to a halt by armed police. Photograph: Barcroft Media

The official police watchdog investigation into the shooting dead of Mark Duggan by a firearms officer has found no evidence of any criminal offence, in the clearest sign yet that it is set to conclude the killing was lawful, the Guardian has learned.

The shooting of Duggan on 4 August 2011 in Tottenham, north London, triggered riots that spread across the capital and to other cities. The second anniversary of his death will be marked by his family on Sunday with a vigil at the spot where he was shot twice by a police marksman.

The family are angry that the official inquiry conducted by the Independent Police Complaints Commission is yet to be finalised and released to them.

In a clear sign that the IPCC believes there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing uncovered by its investigation, no officer has been interviewed under caution for potential criminal or disciplinary offences, with the investigation virtually completed. On Friday an IPCC spokesperson confirmed: "We have found no evidence to indicate criminality at this stage."

An IPCC commissioner will decide whether to refer the case to prosecutors once the report is finalised, but so far no advice has been sought on charges from the Crown Prosecution Service.

The IPCC says its final report will be finished this month. It is waiting on one report from an expert, but otherwise proactive work on the investigation has ended.The final say on the lawfulness or otherwise of the shooting will be delivered by an inquest jury which will start hearing the case next month.

New tests and other work have been ordered by inquest officials into the shooting, above and beyond those carried out by the IPCC. A new expert report originally commissioned by the family is understood to challenge aspects of the police account of the shooting.

The team behind the Duggan inquest is the same that overturned an earlier IPCC exoneration of the Met in another shooting death. The IPCC findings in the 2005 death of Azelle Rodney were overturned after an inquiry produced new evidence and expert testimony that supported a finding that he had been unlawfully killed after a police marksman opened fire.

None of the 11 firearms officers at the scene of the Duggan shooting who were asked to attend interview have answered oral questions from the IPCC, instead supplying written answers. All initially refused to attend interview, and only the officer who shot him later attended. The officer, known as V53, declined to answer questions orally, instead submitting written answers two days later.

V53 has said his substantive account of the shooting was compiled three days later, with he and his colleagues spending more than eight hours sitting in a room together writing their statements. He says he has "no doubt" Duggan had a gun and was preparing to open fire.

Neither Duggan's DNA nor fingerprints have yet been recovered from the weapon or the sock it was contained in. The weapon was found 10ft to 14ft from where he fell, over a low fence, after he was shot twice.

Marcia Willis-Stewart, solicitor for the Duggan family, said: "The family would say the IPCC have been tried, tested and found very wanting. We do not have a draft report or final report and don't know when we are getting either from the IPCC."

Duggan had been trailed by officers on the day he was shot and was riding in a taxi which was forced to a halt by armed officers. They believed he had collected a gun. A man has been convicted of supplying the weapon to Duggan.

The IPCC had to correct the initial information it released, which came from the Met but which it adopted, saying Duggan had fired and that a bullet had lodged in a radio worn by a police officer. The IPCC later admitted the bullet was in fact most likely a ricochet from one fired by a police officer.

The IPCC was criticised by Tottenham MP David Lammy, who said: "It is a scandal. There have been rapists terrorists and murderers who have gone to trial in the two years we have had to wait for Duggan. They have not kept the community informed. They have a public guardianship role and they have failed."

"It makes all our jobs harder that the IPCC appears to be so ineffective."

There will be a public meeting this eveningand a vigil tomorrow organised by the Duggan family at the spot where he was killed, at the exact time he was shot two years ago.

Police have drawn up contingency plans but both their intelligence and community sources do not suggest tensions spilling over into serious disorder.

The Metropolitan said: "An appropriate policing plan is in place for a number of events taking place across the capital this weekend. Extra police officers are on duty and they will be made available to Haringey borough, should they be required."

The IPCC is also investigating police over the weapon Duggan allegedly had after it emerged it may have been used a week earlier in an assault by another person.