[crazyunicorn133]

So i'm going to start University of Manchester to do Adult Nursing in September, and i'm rather worried.
I bought a book 'The Student Nurse Handbook' and after reading its 'basic maths' chapter i've realised just how terrible I am. (well, I always knew I was bad, but never had to worry when I worked dead end jobs haha)...
I JUST scraped a C at GCSE and my mental arithmetic ability is practically non-existant.
Does anyone know any ideas as to how I could improve on my maths? Does anyone else have the same worries?


Thanks

[crazyunicorn133]

anyone?

[moonkatt]

There are loads of books out there targeted at numeracy for nursing, may be worthwhile getting one of those. I found using mental arithmetic while I was out and about, doing the shopping, getting a round of drinks in the pub and so on helps you by constantly using the skill. There's usually loads of support at university for numeracy that you can tap into, in the end they want to see you pass the course.

[Podcaster]

You get a calculator. Tbh I think learning anything past times tables and basic addition mentally is pointless. Plenty people actually have the ability to understand the concepts of maths to some extent but very few have the raw computing ability which is what the public thinks maths is all about and hence they are put off.

[moonkatt]

(Original post by Podcaster)
You get a calculator. Tbh I think learning anything past times tables and basic addition mentally is pointless. Plenty people actually have the ability to understand the concepts of maths to some extent but very few have the raw computing ability which is what the public thinks maths is all about and hence they are put off.

For the numeracy exams at university you do not get a calculator. I never did. The exams involved addition, subtraction, long multiplication and division, fractions and percentages.

[Podcaster]

(Original post by moonkatt)
For the numeracy exams at university you do not get a calculator. I never did. The exams involved addition, subtraction, long multiplication and division, fractions and percentages.

I mean in the job in general. Yeah it sucks though that you have to pass that one test using skills like long division that you will never ever use. that's my point.

[moonkatt]

(Original post by Podcaster)
I mean in the job in general. Yeah it sucks though that you have to pass that one test using skills like long division that you will never ever use. that's my point.

My trust policy is that you are not supposed to use calculators for drug calcs, however everyone does. Numeracy is a very important skill for nurses to have, would you want a nurse who can't work out drug calculations giving you or a relative of your's a drug that could be lethal in the wrong doses? If you don't even have a clue what the answer is going to be then if you use a calculator you're not even going to know if the answer it has given you is right or not.

[Podcaster]

(Original post by moonkatt)
My trust policy is that you are not supposed to use calculators for drug calcs, however everyone does. Numeracy is a very important skill for nurses to have, would you want a nurse who can't work out drug calculations giving you or a relative of your's a drug that could be lethal in the wrong doses? If you don't even have a clue what the answer is going to be then if you use a calculator you're not even going to know if the answer it has given you is right or not.

That sir is the most retarded policy I have ever heard of. Calculators make no mistakes. Humans do. Surely it would be more of a risk of someone getting the wrong dose because a nurse forgot to carry the one?

[moonkatt]

(Original post by Podcaster)
That sir is the most retarded policy I have ever heard of. Calculators make no mistakes. Humans do. Surely it would be more of a risk of someone getting the wrong dose because a nurse forgot to carry the one?

People blindly following what a calculator tells them are just as much of a risk of causing a drug error as someone who can't add up. If you have no idea what the correct answer is going to be then any error in inputting information into the calculator is going to give you the wrong result which you're going to be clueless about.

You'll also find that almost every trust here has some sort of numeracy exam for nurses when they apply for jobs. It is a very important skill in healthcare, that's why so much emphasis is on it in training and in the selection of students prior to training.

[Podcaster]

(Original post by moonkatt)
People blindly following what a calculator tells them are just as much of a risk of causing a drug error as someone who can't add up. If you have no idea what the correct answer is going to be then any error in inputting information into the calculator is going to give you the wrong result which you're going to be clueless about.

You'll also find that almost every trust here has some sort of numeracy exam for nurses when they apply for jobs. It is a very important skill in healthcare, that's why so much emphasis is on it in training and in the selection of students prior to training.

I can tell that you are one of those mindless technology haters. If you want to know the value of 2+ 2 you press the 2 button then the plus button and then the 2 button again. I'ts not rocket science. Are NASA scientists who use computers to crunch vast calculations that they would never ever bother checking by hand blindly following what a calculator tells them? Your argument is illogical. it is far easier to make mistakes calculating by hand than by calculator simply due to there being more operations to carry out and reliance on the memory of the human brain. In my C1 maths exam where you're not allowed a calculator I and everyone else while doing perfectly fine in the say integrating a function part, when it came to plugging the numbers in to find the answer we always made stupid little mistakes like forgetting to carry a number during the multiplication or writing 2+ 7 = 13. However in all the other subsequent modules where you were allowed a calculator not one arithmetical mistake was ever made. If you can't use a calculator properly what makes you think you can do something far more complicated like long division properly?

[moonkatt]

(Original post by Podcaster)
I can tell that you are one of those mindless technology haters. If you want to know the value of 2+ 2 you press the 2 button then the plus button and then the 2 button again. I'ts not rocket science. Are NASA scientists who use computers to crunch vast calculations that they would never ever bother checking by hand blindly following what a calculator tells them? Your argument is illogical. it is far easier to make mistakes calculating by hand than by calculator simply due to there being more operations to carry out and reliance on the memory of the human brain. In my C1 maths exam where you're not allowed a calculator I and everyone else while doing perfectly fine in the say integrating a function part, when it came to plugging the numbers in to find the answer we always made stupid little mistakes like forgetting to carry a number during the multiplication or writing 2+ 7 = 13. However in all the other subsequent modules where you were allowed a calculator not one arithmetical mistake was ever made. If you can't use a calculator properly what makes you think you can do something far more complicated like long division properly?

If I was a mindless technology hater would I be using the internet now to have this discussion? I know how to use a calculator thank you very much, I don't need some patronising instructions on how to use one. What I am saying is if someone doesn't even have a basic grasp of maths then they shouldn't be working as a nurse administering drugs to people. The NMC who set the standards to register nurses recognise this, which is why there is such an emphasis on numeracy in nurse training.

[Podcaster]

(Original post by moonkatt)
If I was a mindless technology hater would I be using the internet now to have this discussion? I know how to use a calculator thank you very much, I don't need some patronising instructions on how to use one. What I am saying is if someone doesn't even have a basic grasp of maths then they shouldn't be working as a nurse administering drugs to people. The NMC who set the standards to register nurses recognise this, which is why there is such an emphasis on numeracy in nurse training.

Yes you are because by using a computer each thing you do on it the processor makes many calculations meaning you are essentially using a calculator. Do you need to know how to do these calculations by hand "just incase the computer made a mistake"? I think not. You could have pressed the wrong button on your keyboard leading the computer to blindly obey you and do the wrong calculation. Can you see how stupid of an argument against using a computer/calculator that is? Everytime you ever used a word processor you lack a basic understanding of literacy according to yourself because you are not using your manual writing skills. Having a basic grasp of maths isn't about detailed number crunching, it's about understanding the operations used in maths in order to be able to apply them i.e if you don't have a clue what percentages are about then a calculator isn't going to be very helpful. I got an A in A level maths and I don't have a clue how to do long division. Do I lack a basic understanding of maths? Mental arithmetic in the workplace is outdated. I work as an accountant and all calculations are made with a calculator. it is quicker and more reliable than doing it by hand. If it were not so then the company wouldn't use them as their profits rely on accurate calculations.

[Health& SC Student]

Hi, I start my nurse training in september and I am soo worried about the maths part of nursing. I passed the interview maths test, (don't ask me how!lol) never was any good at maths. Does all universities provide maths classes to help you with the maths? Thanks

[Rainingshame]

(Original post by crazyunicorn133)
So i'm going to start University of Manchester to do Adult Nursing in September, and i'm rather worried.
I bought a book 'The Student Nurse Handbook' and after reading its 'basic maths' chapter i've realised just how terrible I am. (well, I always knew I was bad, but never had to worry when I worked dead end jobs haha)...
I JUST scraped a C at GCSE and my mental arithmetic ability is practically non-existant.
Does anyone know any ideas as to how I could improve on my maths? Does anyone else have the same worries?


Thanks

This may sound condescending but the first way to improve your mental arithmetic is to start at the bottom, so see if you can get 20/20 on the KS2 SATs metal maths tests. After that buy all of the GSCE textbooks you can (the official ones) and everyday try doing 30 different non-calculator questions out of each. Then progress onto the non-calculator exams do half of each everyday. If once you've done that there is still time left head onto MPC1 maths. That's all mental maths and though you may learn useless (for you) skills if you can do the questions in there in your head on time you'll be fine with basic mental arithmetic. Obviously i'm sure if you use mental arithmetic on a day to day basis you'll catch up pretty quickly as metal arithmetic skills are mostly about repetitions.

[tiny hobbit]

A colleague's wife who is a vet nurse always rings us up to find out how much drug to give an animal of a particular weight!

[Astronomical]

(Original post by Podcaster)
I can tell that you are one of those mindless technology haters. If you want to know the value of 2+ 2 you press the 2 button then the plus button and then the 2 button again. I'ts not rocket science. Are NASA scientists who use computers to crunch vast calculations that they would never ever bother checking by hand blindly following what a calculator tells them? Your argument is illogical. it is far easier to make mistakes calculating by hand than by calculator simply due to there being more operations to carry out and reliance on the memory of the human brain. In my C1 maths exam where you're not allowed a calculator I and everyone else while doing perfectly fine in the say integrating a function part, when it came to plugging the numbers in to find the answer we always made stupid little mistakes like forgetting to carry a number during the multiplication or writing 2+ 7 = 13. However in all the other subsequent modules where you were allowed a calculator not one arithmetical mistake was ever made. If you can't use a calculator properly what makes you think you can do something far more complicated like long division properly?

You can almost guarantee the code that NASA will use to number crunch is checked copious times for mistakes, and even so, the equations they'll be using said code to solve will have been derived by hand.

[Podcaster]

(Original post by Astronomical)
You can almost guarantee the code that NASA will use to number crunch is checked copious times for mistakes, and even so, the equations they'll be using said code to solve will have been derived by hand.

Dode is not arithmetic.
Deriving equations is not arithmetic
No one at NASA goes over the calculation 1034823562399384131847196129739 x 348348235623847139432332^-3.281 by hand when the computer has already done it.

[Astronomical]

(Original post by Podcaster)
Dode is not arithmetic.
Deriving equations is not arithmetic
No one at NASA goes over the calculation 1034823562399384131847196129739 x 348348235623847139432332^-3.281 by hand when the computer has already done it.

Please tell me more about how nurses are going to have to compute 1034823562399384131847196129739 x 348348235623847139432332^-3.281.

The point is, it's easy to mistype into a calculator. If you do a rough calculation in your head first you know what sort of number to expect. If the calculator answer is a distance off this, you're going to go back and check what you typed for an error. If you don't have any expectation because you didn't do it in your head first, then you may not realise you made a mistake, a mistake that could cost somebody their life.

[MathematicsKiller]

You'll probably be okay. I've met a fair share of dumb nurses.

[moonkatt]

(Original post by Astronomical)
Please tell me more about how nurses are going to have to compute 1034823562399384131847196129739 x 348348235623847139432332^-3.281.

The point is, it's easy to mistype into a calculator. If you do a rough calculation in your head first you know what sort of number to expect. If the calculator answer is a distance off this, you're going to go back and check what you typed for an error. If you don't have any expectation because you didn't do it in your head first, then you may not realise you made a mistake, a mistake that could cost somebody their life.

I've already tried this explanation. I use mental arithmetic every day in my job as a nurse, as do most of my colleagues and a lot of the doctors too. I suppose were all outdated though and should get calculators and maybe tell the nasty NMC to stop expecting students to be able to do drug calcs in their heads.