[im so academic]

(Original post by dem503)
The difference between those two is not intelligence; it is environment. To become a surgeon, like with any job, it is not so much about intelligence as it is the drive to do all the hard work necessary, and have the opportunity to do so. How many people on JK do you think grew up near a school where academia is encouraged?

Also you know nothing about either of these (albeit hypothetical) people. The guy on Jeremy Kyle who got his neighbour's wife pregnant could be a natural with a wrench; can fix anything with moving parts, be able to do life like drawings and never been in any sort of financial woe. The surgeon could be a massive tool-go to work, do surgery, go home. Put the wrench in the hand of the surgeon he wont be able to do anything, give the JK guy an open wound and you get a corpse.

Meh. If you can't show your intelligence, what's the point?

[dem503]

(Original post by im so academic)
Meh. If you can't show your intelligence, what's the point?

Everyone can, we just live in a country where it is easier to show some types of intelligence over others, and the education system doesn't help, eg. my ability to learn stuff quickly in school counts for nothing come exam time, by then everyone has had time to catch up!

[A.J10]

(Original post by dem503)
The difference between those two is not intelligence; it is environment. To become a surgeon, like with any job, it is not so much about intelligence as it is the drive to do all the hard work necessary, and have the opportunity to do so. How many people on JK do you think grew up near a school where academia is encouraged?

Also you know nothing about either of these (albeit hypothetical) people. The guy on Jeremy Kyle who got his neighbour's wife pregnant could be a natural with a wrench; can fix anything with moving parts, be able to do life like drawings and never been in any sort of financial woe. The surgeon could be a massive tool-go to work, do surgery, go home. Put the wrench in the hand of the surgeon he wont be able to do anything, give the JK guy an open wound and you get a corpse.

I do believe you hold a rather uncommon view on what is intelligence. There's little use debating it here as you're gonna be arguing with people, both of you using the same word but meaning different things.

I have to say though, I don't believe everyone is equally intelligent, but my definition of intelligence differs from yours so arguing with you over this is not going to lead anywhere productive.

[dem503]

(Original post by A.J10)
I do believe you hold a rather uncommon view on what is intelligence. There's little use debating it here as you're gonna be arguing with people, both of you using the same word but meaning different things.

I have to say though, I don't believe everyone is equally intelligent, but my definition of intelligence differs from yours so arguing with you over this is not going to lead anywhere productive.

Okay then, what is your definition of intelligence?

[A.J10]

(Original post by dem503)
Okay then, what is your definition of intelligence?

I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure. I do however believe it has something to do with conscious thought and thinking and reasoning as opposed to wrote memorisation. I do not believe that everyone is equally intelligent, and I do not take creativity to be the same as intelligence.

[g36c]

doing well in an exam isnt intelligence, you are just good at exams/ memorised alot.

your potential for intelligence is determined by genes and is gained via stimulation. in my opinion

[Xotol]

(Original post by dem503)
x

I'd say I have fairly similar views about this topic to you (so, of course, I think you've made some great posts ). Intelligence, going by the dictionary, is vaguely defined as: the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. However, people acquire and apply in different ways, and people acquire and apply different types of knowledge and skill with a different level of efficiency, so your point is valid so far.

What I will say is this: when people say 'X is more intelligent than Y', I believe it's based on the societal value of the type of knowledge and skills one has and can apply rather than any objective measure. It's impossible to quantify intelligence which is why IQ tests and the like are so ridiculously flawed. And since societal values change, I'd be inclined to say that the perception of intelligence changes over time.

[A.J10]

(Original post by Xotol)
I'd say I have fairly similar views about this topic to you (so, of course, I think you've made some great posts ). Intelligence, going by the dictionary, is vaguely defined as: the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. However, people acquire and apply in different ways, and people acquire and apply different types of knowledge and skill with a different level of efficiency, so your point is valid so far.

What I will say is this: when people say 'X is more intelligent than Y', I believe it's based on the societal value of the type of knowledge and skills one has and can apply rather than any objective measure. It's impossible to quantify intelligence which is why IQ tests and the like are so ridiculously flawed. And since societal values change, I'd be inclined to say that the perception of intelligence changes over time.

The problem with IQ tests is that they were used to measure and predict academic performance, the whole data set that they were based off've was people sitting exams in educational institutions. When people wanted to test how good this metric of "intelligence" was, they did it by seeing how well it predicted people would do in exams. Would you believe it, the system designed to predict exam results managed to predict exam results!

[dem503]

(Original post by Xotol)
What I will say is this: when people say 'X is more intelligent than Y', I believe it's based on the societal value of the type of knowledge and skills one has and can apply rather than any objective measure. It's impossible to quantify intelligence which is why IQ tests and the like are so ridiculously flawed. And since societal values change, I'd be inclined to say that the perception of intelligence changes over time.

Well that societal definition is one I would love to see changed.

Testing is the key thing here, and why the logical side of thinking is so readily put above all others as it is so easily tested (badly) in academia to the point where everyone thinks they are intelligent compared to the average person because they got a few A's.

[A.J10]

(Original post by dem503)
Well that societal definition is one I would love to see changed.

Testing is the key thing here, and why the logical side of thinking is so readily put above all others as it is so easily tested (badly) in academia to the point where everyone thinks they are intelligent compared to the average person because they got a few A's.

I would contend that logic is very closely tied to intelligence. I've had a little think, and I've come to the idea that intelligence involves the processing of information and applying concepts to it, not a definitive definition (haha), but a general idea. This lends itself to logic very well, but also to other fields.

Reminded of this:

[dem503]

(Original post by A.J10)
I would contend that logic is very closely tied to intelligence. I've had a little think, and I've come to the idea that intelligence involves the processing of information and applying concepts to it, not a definitive definition (haha), but a general idea. This lends itself to logic very well, but also to other fields.

Reminded of this:

I know what you mean, logic is the way to think properly. But it does not quite cover all the bases (or as many) as you might think.

Give this a read, it might help

I think of intelligence as the ability to do things quickly, for example in the definition for the first type of intelligence Naturalist, you could look at a leaf and think about it for a few seconds and go (logically thinking) 'this leaf is a deep green colour, has pointy spikes and is quite thick, it must be from a holly bush'. After some practice and research, you'll be able to identify lots of leaves. However, what makes a person intelligent in this way would be to learn to do this very quickly, to be able to identify what makes this leaf different from the other and why. Mathematical logic would only take you as far as 'this is a leaf, not a branch'!

[A.J10]

(Original post by dem503)
I know what you mean, logic is the way to think properly. But it does not quite cover all the bases (or as many) as you might think.

Give this a read, it might help

I think of intelligence as the ability to do things quickly, for example in the definition for the first type of intelligence Naturalist, you could look at a leaf and think about it for a few seconds and go (logically thinking) 'this leaf is a deep green colour, has pointy spikes and is quite thick, it must be from a holly bush'. After some practice and research, you'll be able to identify lots of leaves. However, what makes a person intelligent in this way would be to learn to do this very quickly, to be able to identify what makes this leaf different from the other and why. Mathematical logic would only take you as far as 'this is a leaf, not a branch'!

Obviously the ability to do it quickly is a big factor, and to be able to do it intuitively is as well, I thought that didn't need saying, I'll take a look at that article when I get a chance.

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my E15i

[green.tea]

The difference for me is that racism involves prejudice because you judging a person before you know them based on a racial stereotype and thats unfair. Fat people, stupid people etc arent judged to be so until you know that they are.

[SpicyStrawberry]

Because skin colour in no way affects your ability to work and get on with every day tasks - a person with low intelligence however would flounder if they were asked to teach degree-level Maths, for example.

[SpicyStrawberry]

(Original post by Enigma7)
Superiority complex basically, to feel that you are above/better than them... Atleast for the vast majority who do it.

EDIT:
Thumbing down? Sorry but this is what everyone is like, they want to feel superior and this is one aspect of discrimiation that fulfills that human need in the 21st century.

It's not about feeling superior to people, it's about what people are suited to do. Would you want somebody of low intelligence teaching you or performing surgery? The quality of the work would be low and the person probably wouldn't understand what is going on or what to do.

[Aspiringlawstudent]

People should be allowed to discriminate on whichever basis they want.

[danny111]

I'd rather have a stupid person who has a talent for mechanics fix my car than a physics genius who frowns upon engineers...

[SaintSoldier]

(Original post by tazarooni89)
On the other hand, if I'm hiring actors for a film, and I tell someone "sorry, you can't play the character of Harry Potter, you're black", that would be seen as perfectly acceptable.

Do the books ever say that Harry Potter is white?

[Turdicate]

(Original post by miser)
Only a stupid person, after all, would not see the value of intelligence.

That sounds like a poor argument. To value something does not necessarily entail that you possess it. I value intelligence and knowledge more than love, money, and especially sex. That doesn't mean I have a high intelligence...

[Turdicate]

(Original post by SpicyStrawberry)
It's not about feeling superior to people, it's about what people are suited to do. Would you want somebody of low intelligence teaching you or performing surgery? The quality of the work would be low and the person probably wouldn't understand what is going on or what to do.

You're simply conflating knowledge with intelligence. You could possess the knowledge to perform tasks such as surgery or teaching through extensive practice and training. Intelligence simply denotes how fast one can learn or perform tasks in unknown situations. If you became accustomed to all types of surgery, mishaps and such, nothing would be surprising for you thus, intelligence doesn't factor into the equation. However, I understand that less intelligent individuals may struggle to grasp teaching practices, the intricacies of the human body for surgery, etc. Do not underestimate human intelligence though; anyone with enough patience and perseverance can achieve incredible feats.