[Casshern1456]

(Original post by Carter78)
Don't worry about this guy, he just got another thread closed down because of his inarticulate and "wild" posts: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...2069221&page=9 (see last post)

To the topic of whether China is dangerous/evil:

I can't see why we don't take a similar action against China that the Western world (eventually) took against the Apartheid regime in South Africa. We should boycott all sporting events in China for instance. I found it laughable that the F1 Teams considered boycotting the Grand Prix in Bahrain but were not moved to take any similar action for the Chinese Grand Prix considering China's long history of human rights abuses against the Tibetans and ordinary Chinese citizens.

Some say sport and politics shouldn't mix, but then someone should've told the Chinese back in 2008 during the Beijing Olympics!

If the Chinese want to use Sport as a platform to showcase their greatness, then the West should equally be allowed to use Sport as a platform to shine a light on the abhorrent practices of the Chinese government.

1) Considered, but didn't materialise means nothing, I'm not a big follower of the F1 perhaps you could tell me despite what happened in Bahrain did they go?

2) Sport and politics don't mix, told the Chinese what exactly?

3) Not really, it's not like the venues are unsafe or the infrastructure used to build it are sourced from unethical places using Child labor. It just means the West is jealous of Chinese success and don't want to be embarrassed.

I find it very weird you can come up with this, it's like saying I've been invited to go to my friends birthday party but I decided to reject the invitation on the basis they have a bigger house. Sporting events is when a countries best athlete come together to compete in sports, if one doesn't show up it won't help the country to bond and to trade and in that time friendship will fade ~ China needs Europe just as much as Europe need China to produce and export it's a relationship and nothing to do with politics.

[rawkus]

(Original post by Lunch_Box)
Western media is so misleading.

This, though I would say media in general rather than specifically the west. However, whilst we are aware that the media is misleading in places like Russia and China (probably more so then it actually is) many of us are unable to grasp the idea that our own media could be just as misleading. Major scandals in our own countries which are comparable to those in the countries that our media villifies are quickly forgotten. At the same time, those that appear in other countries are used for generations afterwards to illustrate how apparently corrupt and repressive these other regimes are. For example most people are more likely to remember the repressive actions of the Soviet Union in putting down protests in their satellite states then they are of the American college massacres of the 60s and early 70s.

[drummer]

(Original post by Carter78)
Don't worry about this guy, he just got another thread closed down because of his inarticulate and "wild" posts: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...2069221&page=9 (see last post)

To the topic of whether China is dangerous/evil:

I can't see why we don't take a similar action against China that the Western world (eventually) took against the Apartheid regime in South Africa. We should boycott all sporting events in China for instance. I found it laughable that the F1 Teams considered boycotting the Grand Prix in Bahrain but were not moved to take any similar action for the Chinese Grand Prix considering China's long history of human rights abuses against the Tibetans and ordinary Chinese citizens.

Some say sport and politics shouldn't mix, but then someone should've told the Chinese back in 2008 during the Beijing Olympics!

If the Chinese want to use Sport as a platform to showcase their greatness, then the West should equally be allowed to use Sport as a platform to shine a light on the abhorrent practices of the Chinese government.

That's pretty much jealousy dude

[Carter78]

(Original post by Casshern1456)
1) Considered, but didn't materialise means nothing, I'm not a big follower of the F1 perhaps you could tell me despite what happened in Bahrain did they go?

Perhaps you're not an native English speaker but could you please re-state your question? I don't follow what you're saying here.

Last year the Grand Prix in Bahrain didn't go ahead - primarily due to security concerns due to the security forces's brutal suppression of Arab Spring protests. This year there was a similar conversation about whether or not the Grand Prix should go ahead and whilst the event did eventually go ahead (because on security grounds the situation in Bahrain was safer) Amnesty International among others condemned the staging of the Grand Prix by drawing attention to the continuing human rights abuses in the country.

(Original post by Casshern1456)
2) Sport and politics don't mix, told the Chinese what exactly?

There are some who argue that Sports and Politics shouldn't mix. The Chinese would obviously oppose any boycott of sporting events held in their territory by claiming that Sports and Politics do not mix. I believe China used the 2008 games for political purposes therefore if they were to take the above view that would be hypocritical.

My view is that sport can be a great catalyst for change and that the Olympics in particular have always been used as a political platform by many countries (particularly the USSR and other Eastern Bloc countries during the Cold War). China's staging of the Beijing Olympics was intended by the authorities there to be a grand gesture of Chinese economic and cultural might and the games themselves were aggressively targeted by the regime in the view that Gold = Greatness for China.

Therefore if the Western countries (or the IOC itself) were to take the view that continuing HR abuses in China warrant a boycott of China in sporting events (as a tool to force the Chinese gov to address these abuses) then I would support this. The case of Apartheid South Africa gives us a precedent in this action.

(Original post by Casshern1456)
3) Not really, it's not like the venues are unsafe or the infrastructure used to build it are sourced from unethical places using Child labor. It just means the West is jealous of Chinese success and don't want to be embarrassed.

I find it very weird you can come up with this, it's like saying I've been invited to go to my friends birthday party but I decided to reject the invitation on the basis they have a bigger house. Sporting events is when a countries best athlete come together to compete in sports, if one doesn't show up it won't help the country to bond and to trade and in that time friendship will fade ~ China needs Europe just as much as Europe need China to produce and export it's a relationship and nothing to do with politics.

Believe me, I'm not jealous of China's economic success. I'm also outraged by human rights abuses in Syria, but is the cause of my outrage the Syrian economy? No, the cause of my outrage are the abuses themselves.

I think we should inject a little more morality into our political, economic and cultural (sporting) dealings with China. We took a moral standpoint against Apartheid South Africa, we should be able to take a similar moral view against China.

[Carter78]

(Original post by drummer)
That's pretty much jealousy dude

Nope, not at all.

As I just wrote to the other poster here, the cause of my outrage over human rights abuses in China is not the economy, it is the abuse itself. I take it you are outraged by the reports of mass killings in Syria? Now is the source of your outrage the Syrian government's Oil exports? No.

[drummer]

(Original post by Carter78)
Nope, not at all.

As I just wrote to the other poster here, the cause of my outrage over human rights abuses in China is not the economy, it is the abuse itself. I take it you are outraged by the reports of mass killings in Syria? Now is the source of your outrage the Syrian government's Oil exports? No.

hm, there is no country that does not want to showcase their 'greatness' in the Olympics, everyone goes for it. You are then relying on the media for an outlet of your 'outrage at abuse'. There is no abuse involved buddy I'm getting tired of repeating myself

read my post half way down

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...=USA%21&page=6

If China were say 13th in the table, you wouldn't have the Daily Mail going out their way to 'investigate' why China's athletes are getting Gold. No one complains about the Olympics and try to find a pitiful excuse for jealousy man, just certain people who like to waste their energy to do so.

[Fynch101]

(Original post by Lunch_Box)
Western media is so misleading.

Why on earth were you negged for this post?

[Carter78]

(Original post by drummer)
hm, there is no country that does not want to showcase their 'greatness' in the Olympics, everyone goes for it. You are then relying on the media for an outlet of your 'outrage at abuse'. There is no abuse involved buddy I'm getting tired of repeating myself

read my post half way down

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...=USA%21&page=6

If China were say 13th in the table, you wouldn't have the Daily Mail going out their way to 'investigate' why China's athletes are getting Gold. No one complains about the Olympics and try to find a pitiful excuse for jealousy man, just certain people who like to waste their energy to do so.

You must be confusing me with another poster, my argument has never once stated anything about the Chinese athletes themselves or the team's success. I couldn't care less if China won 1 medal or 100, their Humans rights record is appalling and THAT is the justification for a boycott along the lines of the boycott we took against Apartheid South Africa.

I'm talking about the abuse of ordinary Chinese citizens and the Tibetan people, not the athletes.

Why should China's sporting greatness protect them from inquiry?
South Africa was a sporting powerhouse in many sports including Rugby and Cricket, that however didn't stop the boycotts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportin..._Apartheid_era

In regards to the work ethic of their athletes:
You say hard work ethic I say lifeless autobots. But that's by the by, my argument doesn't rest on the athletes and their training regime (although "regime" might be an apt word to use though!)

P.S The Daily Mail is a poor excuse for journalism, I'd rather cut my eyelids off and stare at the sun than read that paper.

[drummer]

(Original post by Carter78)
You must be confusing me with another poster, my argument has never once stated anything about the Chinese athletes themselves or the team's success. I couldn't care less if China won 1 medal or 100, their Humans rights record is appalling and THAT is the justification for a boycott along the lines of the boycott we took against Apartheid South Africa.

I'm talking about the abuse of ordinary Chinese citizens and the Tibetan people, not the athletes.

Why should China's sporting greatness protect them from inquiry?
South Africa was a sporting powerhouse in many sports including Rugby and Cricket, that however didn't stop the boycotts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportin..._Apartheid_era

In regards to the work ethic of their athletes:
You say hard work ethic I say lifeless autobots. But that's by the by, my argument doesn't rest on the athletes and their training regime (although "regime" might be an apt word to use though!)

P.S The Daily Mail is a poor excuse for journalism, I'd rather cut my eyelids off and stare at the sun than read that paper.

In that case your opinion is valid and to each his own. It was just based on what I quoted earlier I may have assumed that you were one of those people judging how their athletes were trained when in fact you were talking about human rights as a whole in China.

[Casshern1456]

(Original post by Carter78)
Perhaps you're not an native English speaker but could you please re-state your question? I don't follow what you're saying here.

Last year the Grand Prix in Bahrain didn't go ahead - primarily due to security concerns due to the security forces's brutal suppression of Arab Spring protests. This year there was a similar conversation about whether or not the Grand Prix should go ahead and whilst the event did eventually go ahead (because on security grounds the situation in Bahrain was safer) Amnesty International among others condemned the staging of the Grand Prix by drawing attention to the continuing human rights abuses in the country.



There are some who argue that Sports and Politics shouldn't mix. The Chinese would obviously oppose any boycott of sporting events held in their territory by claiming that Sports and Politics do not mix. I believe China used the 2008 games for political purposes therefore if they were to take the above view that would be hypocritical.

My view is that sport can be a great catalyst for change and that the Olympics in particular have always been used as a political platform by many countries (particularly the USSR and other Eastern Bloc countries during the Cold War). China's staging of the Beijing Olympics was intended by the authorities there to be a grand gesture of Chinese economic and cultural might and the games themselves were aggressively targeted by the regime in the view that Gold = Greatness for China.

Therefore if the Western countries (or the IOC itself) were to take the view that continuing HR abuses in China warrant a boycott of China in sporting events (as a tool to force the Chinese gov to address these abuses) then I would support this. The case of Apartheid South Africa gives us a precedent in this action.



Believe me, I'm not jealous of China's economic success. I'm also outraged by human rights abuses in Syria, but is the cause of my outrage the Syrian economy? No, the cause of my outrage are the abuses themselves.

I think we should inject a little more morality into our political, economic and cultural (sporting) dealings with China. We took a moral standpoint against Apartheid South Africa, we should be able to take a similar moral view against China.

The difference between the West and China & Russia is it vetoed to go interfere with Syrians business, you can argue the West is always interested in other countries business ~ Why? China and Russia has never tried to tackle the economic problem in the West. When the West boycotts sporting events in the Middle east and Asia do you think their government really care if you join in or not? They invited Western countries, if you don't turn up, tough. They're not changing their regime because of that.

Besides, everything you have said is based upon human rights correct? Western economy wouldn't care to take action against Africa. They are in it for themselves. By boycotting the events they lose huge amounts of trade relationships and opportunities with China.

Do you see the Western countries interfering with Africa they have even worst human rights record than anywhere else, they are not there because there's no oil, nothing to gain. It's not right to abuse human rights ofcourse, but you've obviously not considered what opportunity a country could miss out on by boycotting.

You sound very jealous and I'm not the only one who things this and I believe you are almost using HR record as an excuse to use as a tool to excommunicate China with Western countries. Morality, politics, sports you can't have it all I say leave it to others to decide what's best for them. You are very naive.

------------------------

On another note, this thread is asking for opinions whether China is dangerous and Evil. Do you think China qualifies as Evil? do they not have laws, regulations, politicians.. etc

If you went to China to stay for 2 months would you feel threatened? in Danger? judging by the amount of how tourism has picked up in China I guess not.

[chrislpp]

(Original post by Lunch_Box)
Western media is so misleading.

It's not misleading, they just tell the governments story of events.

[Carter78]

(Original post by drummer)
In that case your opinion is valid and to each his own. It was just based on what I quoted earlier I may have assumed that you were one of those people judging how their athletes were trained when in fact you were talking about human rights as a whole in China.

Fair play, those people who DO criticise China's athletes might do well to look at the issue of doping and how China rarely fall foul of doping laws whilst other countries do!

[Carter78]

(Original post by Casshern1456)
The difference between the West and China & Russia is it vetoed to go interfere with Syrians business, you can argue the West is always interested in other countries business ~ Why?

I didn't.

(Original post by Casshern1456)
China and Russia has never tried to tackle the economic problem in the West. When the West boycotts sporting events in the Middle east and Asia do you think their government really care if you join in or not? They invited Western countries, if you don't turn up, tough. They're not changing their regime because of that.

On the contrary, the EU is looking to China for future investment and trade deals. The EU also looks to Russia for its' large energy resources. Do I like this? No. Would I rather the EU developed cleaner, self-sustainable energy resources to lessen our dependence on the natural resources of undemocratic countries? Yes.

(Original post by Casshern1456)
Besides, everything you have said is based upon human rights correct? Western economy wouldn't care to take action against Africa. They are in it for themselves. By boycotting the events they lose huge amounts of trade relationships and opportunities with China.

Awesome, so the Chinese position is: "It doesn't matter that we kill Tibetan protesters and lock up human rights campaigners and lawyers, you have to play Badminton with us or we stop trading with you".

How despicable.

(Original post by Casshern1456)
Do you see the Western countries interfering with Africa they have even worst human rights record than anywhere else, they are not there because there's no oil, nothing to gain. It's not right to abuse human rights ofcourse, but you've obviously not considered what opportunity a country could miss out on by boycotting.

So our materialistic concerns should always win out over moral concerns?

I'm not saying that the Western countries are perfect, but our human rights records are a damn sight better than China's. If abuses are carried out in the West then there is an outcry (look at the reaction to the American's use of Water-boarding) - and rightly so!

The difference is that we in the West can freely criticise our government, whereas in China if you criticise the government you're lucky if you can escape into exile.

(Original post by Casshern1456)
You sound very jealous and I'm not the only one who things this

Oh I wouldn't be so sure of that, you might be

(Original post by Casshern1456)
and I believe you are almost using HR record as an excuse to use as a tool to excommunicate China with Western countries. Morality, politics, sports you can't have it all I say leave it to others to decide what's best for them. You are very naive.

You'Re right, I'm using my moral outrage over Chinese human rights abuses to inform my opinion. How terrible

Jealous no, as I said I think the inhumane actions of the Syrian government allow us in the Western world to ostracize the regime. Jealousy has nothing to do with it. I would happily apply the same logic to China.

Naive? Perhaps. But I'm certainly no hypocrite. If you have any respect for human rights then you should apply the same moral code to China as you would to any other authoritarian regime (be it Apartheid South Africa or otherwise).

(Original post by Casshern1456)
On another note, this thread is asking for opinions whether China is dangerous and Evil. Do you think China qualifies as Evil? do they not have laws, regulations, politicians.. etc

If you went to China to stay for 2 months would you feel threatened? in Danger? judging by the amount of how tourism has picked up in China I guess not.

China regularly restricts the travel of Westerners into Tibetan regions primarily because they are "restive provinces" that do see sporadic outbursts of violence. Nevertheless I would take your point that the country on the whole is not as dangerous as war-torn regions in the world.

Evil? Hard to say. I do think that their form of governance, illiberal laws and human rights abuses are highly immoral. Nevertheless "evil" would be a simplistic word. However, an authoritarian government is certainly unjust.

But I wouldn't equate "evil" purely on a personal risk assessment anyway. I as a white European male could have lived within Nazi Germany quite easily without being "threatened" by the government, however that wouldn't stop the regime from being "evil" would it?

[Lunch_Box]

(Original post by chrislpp)
It's not misleading, they just tell the governments story of events.

That is misleading, lol. It does not represent the general population's view. Media defeats the purpose of democracy.

[Casshern1456]

(Original post by Carter78)
I didn't.



On the contrary, the EU is looking to China for future investment and trade deals. The EU also looks to Russia for its' large energy resources. Do I like this? No. Would I rather the EU developed cleaner, self-sustainable energy resources to lessen our dependence on the natural resources of undemocratic countries? Yes.



Awesome, so the Chinese position is: "It doesn't matter that we kill Tibetan protesters and lock up human rights campaigners and lawyers, let us into the Olympics or we stop trading with you".

How despicable.



So our materialistic concerns should always win out over moral concerns?

I'm not saying that the Western countries are perfect, but our human rights records are a damn sight better than China's. If abuses are carried out in the West then there is an outcry (look at the reaction to the American's use of Water-boarding) - and rightly so!

The difference is that we in the West can freely criticise our government, whereas in China if you criticise the government you're lucky if you can escape into exile.



Oh I wouldn't be so sure of that, you might be



You'Re right, I'm using my moral outrage over Chinese human rights abuses to inform my opinion. How terrible

Jealous no, as I said I think the inhumane actions of the Syrian government allow us in the Western world to ostracize the regime. Jealousy has nothing to do with it. I would happily apply the same logic to China.

Naive? Perhaps. But I'm certainly no hypocrite. If you have any respect for human rights then you should apply the same moral code to China as you would to any other authoritarian regime (be it Apartheid South Africa or otherwise).



China regularly restricts the travel of Westerners into Tibetan regions primarily because they are "restive provinces" that do see sporadic outbursts of violence. Nevertheless I would take your point that the country on the whole is not as dangerous as war-torn regions in the world.

Evil? Hard to say. I do think that their form of governance, illiberal laws and human rights abuses are highly immoral. Nevertheless "evil" would be a simplistic word. However, an authoritarian government is certainly unjust.

But I wouldn't equate "evil" purely on a personal risk assessment anyway. I as a white European male could have lived within Nazi Germany quite easily without being "threatened" by the government, however that wouldn't stop the regime from being "evil" would it?

1) Wow. I'am not impressed by you twisting my words.

2) You think the West has so much Human right, the US Olympics broadcaster NBC decided to cut out the tribute to the 7th July and delayed the 100m sprint you think that's not controlling, where's the freedom in that. What I'm saying is each country has their own difficulties and the West try to impose their ethical or morality onto China is wrong. Chinese people have their own representatives for all the ethnic group it's for the governments to decide what happens not the West.

3) I think not. If you have so much opinion why are you hiding behind you screen screaming at China, if you feel so passionately about Human Rights why don't you go do something about it, action not words. Go to Syria, go to China and help the Tibetans, go to African, Sudan Somalia and help them tackle human rights abuses? You misunderstand China and what it represents, I don't blame you but don't listen to everything the Western media has to say, use your head ~ read....just don't rely on the BBC to give you an unbiased view.

The fact you manage to say you'd rather live in NAZI occupied territories shows a racial divide , now 99% of people cannot have said that. You think you are so righteous and faultless in your opinions, you are wrong.

I don't need a reply, it is clear what you mean.

[Mcnubn]

In short, what you read in the news about China is unlikely to be accurate -.- Chinese media picks up the stories they want (not all are pretty) and will ignore others. Most western journalists don't seem to be able to speak chinese (Damian Grammaticas of the BBC wouldn't even be able to order a coke with that pronounciation) and so they depend on what is in the newspapers or whatever information that the human rights groups provide them with (often full of bias).

Take for example the "forced evictions". In the west its portrayed as the government coming in and knocking down the houses and leaving the people to sort themselves out. In actual fact its months of negotiations with the local community in order to find a suitable level of compensation, often those that complain to the human rights groups are those that expect to be made very rich from the deal -.-

did find it quite funny to discover that my western influenced view of the evictions was so far from the truth, to the extent that many people around Beijing look forward to the day that it comes to them.

[Carter78]

(Original post by Casshern1456)
1) Wow. I'am not impressed by you twisting my words.

I'm not impressed by your words either.

(Original post by Casshern1456)
2) You think the West has so much Human right, the US Olympics broadcaster NBC decided to cut out the tribute to the 7th July and delayed the 100m sprint you think that's not controlling, where's the freedom in that. What I'm saying is each country has their own difficulties and the West try to impose their ethical or morality onto China is wrong. Chinese people have their own representatives for all the ethnic group it's for the governments to decide what happens not the West.

I don't agree with what NBC did. Though they put down the decision to a misunderstand of what that tribute was for. I watched the opening ceremony here in Berlin and the commentators said nothing about the 7th July during that scene. It seems many international broadcasters were confused about what that section of the performance was for.

But that is nothing compared to the Chinese government's censorship of he Media/Internet. Go type in "Tienanmen Square 1989 Massacre" into a mainland Chinese search engine if you want to see how information is censored.

Chinese people have representatives for all of their ethnic groups? Do all of these groups enjoy the right to self-determination? No.

(Original post by Casshern1456)
3) I think not. If you have so much opinion why are you hiding behind you screen screaming at China, if you feel so passionately about Human Rights why don't you go do something about it, action not words. Go to Syria, go to China and help the Tibetans, go to African, Sudan Somalia and help them tackle human rights abuses? You misunderstand China and what it represents, I don't blame you but don't listen to everything the Western media has to say, use your head ~ read....just don't rely on the BBC to give you an unbiased view.

I donate to Amnesty international and will study to enter the international relations field. I'm a member of humanist organisations and have taken part in many protests in London and Berlin against human rights abuses from the Catholic Church the Chinese government and the Assad regime among others. I work full-time to fund my future studies so I can join an NGO or the EU Commission in order to create a more humane and just world.

Sorry If I haven't achieved world peace at the age of 23, but that doesn't take anything away from my comprehension of the facts. China's human rights record is appalling. Amnesty International and countless other leading human rights groups publish their damning reports each year. Go and read them.

The BBC probably isn't as independent as it should be on many issues, that's why I try to get my news fix from a variety of sources. Der Spiegel and The Economist are my preferred News Sources.

(Original post by Casshern1456)
The fact you manage to say you'd rather live in NAZI occupied territories shows a racial divide , now 99% of people cannot have said that. You think you are so righteous and faultless in your opinions, you are wrong.

I don't need a reply, it is clear what you mean and I don't want to listen to the opinion to a white supremacist.

When did I say that? Don't be a fool. I never said I would rather live under Nazism. Why make a claim that I can quite easily refute? Here's what I said;

>>>>>
I as a white European male could have lived within Nazi Germany quite easily without being "threatened" by the government, however that wouldn't stop the regime from being "evil" would it?
>>>>>

I presume you're not a native English speaker but I feel I must pick apart your grasp of the English language here. I quite clearly said that as a white male I wouldn't have been in direct danger under Nazism, but that this nevertheless doesn't detract from the Nazi regime being evil - which it was. I made this comparison because you were saying China couldn't possibly be "evil" because they have laws, regulations, politicians and that the country has a low threat level.

My point was simple; laws, politicians and a "low threat level" do not stop a country from being evil.

How much clearer do I need to be?

[Casshern1456]

(Original post by Carter78)
I'm not impressed by your words either.



I don't agree with what NBC did. Though they put down the decision to a misunderstand of what that tribute was for. I watched the opening ceremony here in Berlin and the commentators said nothing about the 7th July during that scene. It seems many international broadcasters were confused about what that section of the performance was for.

But that is nothing compared to the Chinese government's censorship of he Media/Internet. Go type in "Tienanmen Square 1989 Massacre" into a mainland Chinese search engine if you want to see how information is censored.

Chinese people have representatives for all of their ethnic groups? Do all of these groups enjoy the right to self-determination? No.



I donate to Amnesty international and will study to enter the international relations field. I'm a member of humanist organisations and have taken part in many protests in London and Berlin against human rights abuses from the Catholic Church the Chinese government and the Assad regime among others. I work full-time to fund my future studies so I can join an NGO or the EU Commission in order to create a more humane and just world.

Sorry If I haven't achieved world peace at the age of 23, but that doesn't take anything away from my comprehension of the facts. China's human rights record is appalling. Amnesty International and countless other leading human rights groups publish their damning reports each year. Go and read them.

The BBC probably isn't as independent as it should be on many issues, that's why I try to get my news fix from a variety of sources. Der Spiegel and The Economist are my preferred News Sources.



When did I say that? Don't be a fool. I never said I would rather live under Nazism. Why make a claim that I can quite easily refute? Here's what I said;

>>>>>
I as a white European male could have lived within Nazi Germany quite easily without being "threatened" by the government, however that wouldn't stop the regime from being "evil" would it?
>>>>>

I presume you're not a native English speaker but I feel I must pick apart your grasp of the English language here. I quite clearly said that as a white male I wouldn't have been in direct danger under Nazism, but that this nevertheless doesn't detract from the Nazi regime being evil - which it was. I made this comparison because you were saying China couldn't possibly be "evil" because they have laws, regulations, politicians and that the country has a low threat level.

My point was simple; laws, politicians and a "low threat level" do not stop a country from being evil.

How much clearer do I need to be?

Okay, all I see is you are not happy with how China is treating their people, well from what I read and do independent research it isn't great I agree, but it's been exaggerated I feel in the West and they are nit-picking at China's fault, certainly you must agree China has a population of 1.3 billion people, it is hard for everyone to be supporters.

I actually agree with China's censorship on Tienanmen square, looking at the wider picture it's not healthy to research the event but every Chinese knows what happened, I was told when I was little it doesn't mean it didn't ever happen. I don't know what else they censored but i don't need you to tell me because I know the government do this with their citizens interest in mind. Can you honestly make a good comparison of two nations Germany's 81 million, GB 65 mill, France 65m etc etc citizens to China's 1.3 billions~ different ball games, different rules.

You would rather live under a Nazi regime, that's understandable as you are their decendants and don't take this offensively but to you it would be normal it's the way you've been brought up. Same with Chinese citizens I would never contemplation Nazi winning WWII. I think partly your frustration has been because of China's growing economic and global status you feel jealous and you feel threatened by China and so do many other people, but it's because of your nativity towards Asian countries. I have seen many threads on here slating China for various reasons, but action speak louder than words and China's conditions are improving and it's only the big boys who ever make it onto the front page cover. But in actual fact China is a nice place because I've been there, conditions of people are getting better by the day it's just changing the attitude the west has on China that is different, if you just want to jump to conclusions it's not their problem.

I'm sorry I don't usually take Nasi supporters too seriously, so I try to get my argument across as quickly as I can so I can do other things. sorry if my language is not good enough I study a Mathematical base subject I'm trying to learn how to deliver a more precise English written text in the future for my subject.

[Carter78]

(Original post by Casshern1456)
Okay, all I see is you are not happy with how China is treating their people, well from what I read and do independent research it isn't great I agree, but it's been exaggerated I feel in the West and they are nit-picking at China's fault, certainly you must agree China has a population of 1.3 billion people, it is hard for everyone to be supporters.

That's true. But human rights activists tend to criticize the Chinese government and their policies - not the Chinese people themselves. There are many millions of Chinese who stand up for their democratic rights, but that doesn't mean the government is not guilty of treating Tibetans poorly or restricting democratic freedoms for all Chinese citizens.

(Original post by Casshern1456)
I actually agree with China's censorship on Tienanmen square, looking at the wider picture it's not healthy to research the event but every Chinese knows what happened, I was told when I was little it doesn't mean it didn't ever happen. I don't know what else they censored but i don't need you to tell me because I know the government do this with their citizens interest in mind.

I believe that the truth is always a force for good. Even if it may "shock" people. The Chinese government are at best treating their citizens like children, at worst they are with-holding abhorrent atrocities from them. The people need to know the truth and the fact that the government are hiding the fact that they ordered the army to murder innocent demonstrators robs the government of any moral standing!

(Original post by Casshern1456)
Can you honestly make a good comparison of two nations Germany's 81 million, GB 65 mill, France 65m etc etc citizens to China's 1.3 billions~ different ball games, different rules.

Again, I'm criticizing the government not the people-

(Original post by Casshern1456)
You would rather live under a Nazi regime, that's understandable as you are their decendants and don't take this offensively but to you it would be normal it's the way you've been brought up.

Sir, what the hell are you talking about? When did I say "I would rather live under a Nazi regime"?

Are you confusing the word "could" with "would"? I quite clearly stated that whilst I wouldn't be in any personal danger under a Nazi regime, that doesn't mean I would agree with the system of government nor support it. This is the last time I will state this.

Stop throwing around offensive labels and come up with a convincing argument.

(Original post by Casshern1456)
I think partly your frustration has been because of China's growing economic and global status you feel jealous and you feel threatened by China and so do many other people, but it's because of your nativity towards Asian countries.

I've said before I'm not jealous of China, I pity their human right's record. Are you jealous of Syria, Zimbabwe or Cuba? No. So why would I be jealous of China's restrictions on freedom of speech?

(Original post by Casshern1456)
I'm sorry I don't usually take Nasi supporters too seriously, so I try to get my argument across as quickly as I can so I can do other things. sorry if my language is not good enough I study a Mathematical base subject I'm trying to learn how to deliver a more precise English written text in the future for my subject.

I proposed that you thought I was making pro-Nazi statements because you misunderstood my writings, so I put them into simpler English. However you are still of the opinion that I am a Nazi. That is inexcusable.

[Aurorae]

(Original post by Carter78)
That's true. But human rights activists tend to criticize the Chinese government and their policies - not the Chinese people themselves. There are many millions of Chinese who stand up for their democratic rights, but that doesn't mean the government is not guilty of treating Tibetans poorly or restricting democratic freedoms for all Chinese citizens.

Having been to Tibet in 2008, I can tell you that events such as self-immolation and other horrendous events are rare. Tibet is not filled with military paratroopers, nor are there constant protests 'for democracy'. There will always be those who oppose the Chinese government but for the majority of Tibetans, life is not full of prejudice and suppression.

Yes the Chinese government's record isn't brilliant, especially with the Tienanmen Square massacre, but I believe that human rights have become more prioritised than it previously may have been.