(Original post by medicine gapper)
EDIT: MY PREMISES RELY ON THE LAW OF CAUSE = EFFECT. EVERY EFFECT MUST HAVE A CAUSE, OR IT CAN NOT BE AN EFFECT. (YOU ARE USING THE PRINCIPLES OF CAUSE = EFFECT TO TYPE TO ME) . IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THIS LAW, THEN MY ARGUMENTS DO NOT APPLY TO YOU.
This thread is not if God exists. I do not wish to give my personal opinion. My answer to this question is look up at the sky.
Now, many of us say 'well if God exists, then who made God'.
There is no thread for this. I want an open debate (;
If we believe that we have around us a universe, with it's many laws and rules, then we can assume the following:
> Within this universe, of time , matter, space , and it's various components, the simple rule of 'cause = effect ' must be implied.
> Nothing makes nothing. Things WITHIN our universe must have a cause.
> Energy can not be created or destroyed.
If we assume God , an entity with no form, no shape, unlike any creation exists, who originated our universe, many rightly ask "well who made God". i don't think anyone has not contemplated this.
However, If God created our universe, he must have existed before the universe - this is a simple derivation.
If this is the case, and he can exist outside the universe, the laws of the universe i.e cause = effect, or needing to be 'created' do not apply to him. Rather, he made the notion that things must be 'created'.
What is your other alternative? the universe making itself. a paradox. infinite causes.
What do i mean by this? well, if you did not have an ultimate starting cause, every cause must have been caused. You therefore have an infinite set of causes - a paradox.
Somewhere along the line, there must have been a cause which needs no cause. Which needs not time and space to exist.
We either believe in a creator who has not been caused, or a paradox.
These are our only two options.
I want opposing views on this. i am restless about my ideas. Like leonardo da vinci in the renaissane, i seek to analyse the universe around me, think freely of what 'famous people' like to tell me i must believe. I want to use my own five senses, and own intellect.
Feel free to post!