[Clip]

It's not necessarily about valuing education, nor is it about ending up in prison.

Failure can be so much broader and include so many more people. It's so easy to just pretend that a few black boys in gangs are the only failures.

There are so many more people wasting away with no intention of being productive - those are the real failures - because there are so many more of them and they are very quiet about it.

I can name maybe one person I know that ended up "badly" with violence and crime. On the other hand, I could probably name ten who are total wasters, on benefits with no intention of productivity or clue about their future.

And these people aren't necessarily uneducated. I can name several graduates who have never worked and probably never will. Somewhere along the line, these people who don't get the message - who just want to coast or to be dragged along through life, bobbing along and hoping that either everything will turn out, or that a million pounds will drop into their laps. People from "bad backgrounds" may be more susceptible as they may have poor parental examples - parents who have never worked. On the other hand, the waster-graduates are probably not from bad families.

There are people who don't know any better, or who don't want to know any better. All I would say is - TSR - watch out where you throw stones. It's very easy to think that will never be you, and that somehow you are better than that. That's the first step on the wrong road. The first time you feel sorry for yourself for not getting the job you think you deserve, the first time you ask for mitigating circumstances, the time you turn down a job in McDonalds because you think you're destined for better - you're sailing close to the wind.

[democracyforum]

(Original post by Clip)
It's not necessarily about valuing education, nor is it about ending up in prison.

Failure can be so much broader and include so many more people. It's so easy to just pretend that a few black boys in gangs are the only failures.

There are so many more people wasting away with no intention of being productive - those are the real failures - because there are so many more of them and they are very quiet about it.

I can name maybe one person I know that ended up "badly" with violence and crime. On the other hand, I could probably name ten who are total wasters, on benefits with no intention of productivity or clue about their future.

And these people aren't necessarily uneducated. I can name several graduates who have never worked and probably never will. Somewhere along the line, these people who don't get the message - who just want to coast or to be dragged along through life, bobbing along and hoping that either everything will turn out, or that a million pounds will drop into their laps. People from "bad backgrounds" may be more susceptible as they may have poor parental examples - parents who have never worked. On the other hand, the waster-graduates are probably not from bad families.

There are people who don't know any better, or who don't want to know any better. All I would say is - TSR - watch out where you throw stones. It's very easy to think that will never be you, and that somehow you are better than that. That's the first step on the wrong road. The first time you feel sorry for yourself for not getting the job you think you deserve, the first time you ask for mitigating circumstances, the time you turn down a job in McDonalds because you think you're destined for better - you're sailing close to the wind.

If a million pounds did fall in their lap, I doubt they would change.

[Kibalchich]

http://www.instituteofhealthequity.o...-marmot-review

Marmot review

[RastaMannn]

Are you a total fruitcake?

Professor Green
Lee Evans
Tupac Shakur
Eminem
Alan Sugar

There are so many more examples of people from bad backgrounds that have made good lives for themselves

[Kibalchich]

social class does broadly determine life chances though

[g_star_raw_1989]

I know the kind of people you're describing OP, my school was full of them too, I know some who are in prison and others who are dead. There are many factors involved, however, what I noticed was that many of them valued the instant gratification and potential short-term gains that crime offers. As opposed to the deferred gratification one would get from a good education.

[Kibalchich]

(Original post by g_star_raw_1989)
I know the kind of people you're describing OP, my school was full of them too, I know some who are in prison and others who are dead. There are many factors involved, however, what I noticed was that many of them valued the instant gratification and potential short-term gains that crime offers. As opposed to the deferred gratification one would get from a good education.

Impulse control can be affected by upbringing. Poor attachment often leads to poor impulse control and poor regulation of emotional states.

[Xotol]

(Original post by RastaMannn)
Are you a total fruitcake?

Professor Green
Lee Evans
Tupac Shakur
Eminem
Alan Sugar

There are so many more examples of people from bad backgrounds that have made good lives for themselves

True, but there are so many more people that have not made good lives for themselves. Sweeping statements are never right and there will always be anomalies (on both sides), but this is undeniably a massive issue. It's important to try and uncover the reasons behind this.

[Dolly786]

It's sad to read this post but it's true. I believe it's the lack of a role model. Kids tend to follow their peers, so if peers are gangs then they want to be part of it.
Also, the government is to blame for not doing something about this.
The schools have crap tutors which leads to kids not doing well in education.
I hope & pray someone in the community changes this by reintroducing education. It will be hard but the place may grow into a better area.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[RubyMay]

I don't believe you can blame education for people turning to a crap lifestyle. I didn't go to a particularly good school, most are teenage parents/ in jail/ in the dole, yet there are people like me and lots of others in my year who go to university and actually succeed in life, it's LIFESTYLE that affects people, not education.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[RubyMay]

*on the dole. Oops.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[Juichiro]

(Original post by lilyobz)
Having grown up in East London, my school was full of these so called "gangsters". All they did was cause trouble, fail academically and have under aged sex =/.

Recently a former student from my school has been sentenced to life for murder (gang rivalry-stabbing). At the age of 17....

It has made me wonder why and how people turn out like this?

I think a vast majority of kids from dis-advantaged backgrounds fail the realise the importance of Education to success. Many are deluded into thinking they will be rap stars with lots of money, many see it as a chore (often bunking many lessons) and end up in low deeming jobs.

Also the lack of role models, rap artists and such should not really be seen as role models. Many of the songs promote violence, greed, gang culture and a bad way of life. If Kids have good role models to aspire to, they will be more likely to achieve in life.


So what do you guys think?

Because their background failed to them.

[B-Man.]

(Original post by RobertWhite)
1. Kids from poorer backgrounds tend to have bad parents.

What stupid thing to say.

(Original post by RobertWhite)
4. Some believe poorer families pass on poor genetics to their children which creates a poverty cycle.

[Juichiro]

(Original post by lilyobz)
He is one of those backwards people from stormfront.org forums. Take a visit there.. full of racist threads and general stupidity. Even racist poetry =/

[Dinnes]

(Original post by lilyobz)
Having grown up in East London, my school was full of these so called "gangsters". All they did was cause trouble, fail academically and have under aged sex =/.

Recently a former student from my school has been sentenced to life for murder (gang rivalry-stabbing). At the age of 17....

It has made me wonder why and how people turn out like this?

I think a vast majority of kids from dis-advantaged backgrounds fail the realise the importance of Education to success. Many are deluded into thinking they will be rap stars with lots of money, many see it as a chore (often bunking many lessons) and end up in low deeming jobs.

Also the lack of role models, rap artists and such should not really be seen as role models. Many of the songs promote violence, greed, gang culture and a bad way of life. If Kids have good role models to aspire to, they will be more likely to achieve in life.


So what do you guys think?

I think a lot of them don't learn to respect the society they live in. Ultimately what we do affects other people and our influence on society should be positive as a whole.

A lot of this behaviour is attributable to the sentiment that they are better than society, as if they are somehow 'special exceptions' to the rules which everyone else lives by.

Essentially a maturity issue, but it is due I think to a lack of role models, as well as them not being shown how responsibility is a good thing.

[RobertWhite]

(Original post by B-Man.)
What stupid thing to say.

It's hardly illogical. Walk into a poor neighbourhood and you're going to find many parents who do not care about their children's education as much as richer families. Poverty tends to run in families due to poor parenting (such as in teenage pregnancies). Genetics is a theory to how poverty can run in families. If parents tend to have genes which made it more likely for them to be poor in the first place, such as low intelligence or depression, then these will be passed on to their children.

Obviously many parents from poor backgrounds are going to be brilliant - but it is more likely they will not the more impoverished the area you go. I'm not sure why you're arguing against this?

[Sean9001]

(Original post by lucky20)
Tbh i think its aspirations. They have nothing to aspire to in life. Many young people from poorer backgrounds have no father figure in their lives. I think with strict guidance anyone can achieve irrespective of background.

Aspirations yes. Father figure no. Mothers are perfectly capable of being as strict as a father. Even if not, I don't believe having a father figure in its own right bears on the success of people from poorer backgrounds.

[kka25]

(Original post by Clip)

There are people who don't know any better, or who don't want to know any better. All I would say is - TSR - watch out where you throw stones. It's very easy to think that will never be you, and that somehow you are better than that. That's the first step on the wrong road. The first time you feel sorry for yourself for not getting the job you think you deserve, the first time you ask for mitigating circumstances, the time you turn down a job in McDonalds because you think you're destined for better - you're sailing close to the wind.

Note this.

[Felchingman]

(Original post by RastaMannn)
Are you a total fruitcake?

Professor Green
Lee Evans
Tupac Shakur
Eminem
Alan Sugar

There are so many more examples of people from bad backgrounds that have made good lives for themselves

The people you have cited are one of the reasons people from poorer backgrounds fail academically.
I doubt these rappers were geniuses at school, and kids aspire to these figures, thinking that they also can succeed, without school.

We must teach these kids that such success stories are very rare, and that they must achieve success with school.

It's true though that a £20,000 job does not seem super shiny, but it's still better than crime and benefits. That's perhaps the hardest thing these kids have to understand.

[B-Man.]

(Original post by RobertWhite)
It's hardly illogical. Walk into a poor neighbourhood and you're going to find many parents who do not care about their children's education as much as richer families.

Walk into a rich neighbourhood and you are bound to find parents who didn't care enough to raise their children to not be a little elitist **** like you.

(Original post by RobertWhite)
Poverty tends to run in families due to poor parenting (such as in teenage pregnancies). Genetics is a theory to how poverty can run in families. If parents tend to have genes which made it more likely for them to be poor in the first place, such as low intelligence or depression, then these will be passed on to their children.

Nice scientific analysis there.