[Gales]

The European Commission announced today that countries who become independent from a country which is an EU member won't get automatic admission. It was once thought that newly independent countries would gain automatic admission due to there being a lack of precedent on the issue, however, in relation to Catalan independence, it was confirmed that they'd have to reapply for membership, as would a newly independent Scotland..

Article here (although in Spanish): http://www.periodistadigital.com/cat...endiente.shtml

What do you think? This'll certainly be a blow to Catalan independentists who aspired for an independent Catalonia within the EU.

[Gales]

Also, it's rumoured that Spain would veto Scottish EU membership: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...p-6292846.html

[callum9999]

Do Nationalist Scots even want to be in the EU? Seems rather ridiculous to declare independence then hand over a raft of powers to someone else... Particularly as I believe, as it currently stands, they would have to join the Schengen zone (which I personally love, but most people outside of it seem to hate!) and take the Euro - meaning they basically lose some fiscal and pretty much all border powers!

[Gales]

(Original post by callum9999)
Do Nationalist Scots even want to be in the EU? Seems rather ridiculous to declare independence then hand over a raft of powers to someone else... Particularly as I believe, as it currently stands, they would have to join the Schengen zone (which I personally love, but most people outside of it seem to hate!) and take the Euro...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-18381567

"The SNP has released figures which it says show an independent Scotland could be one of the richest in the EU."

I assume so. Dream over for them though, I guess...

[Shabalala]

I'm hoping the olympics can help get boost British feeling here in Scotland and from what I have seen so far it's working the torch relay really helped bring the nation together and the success of the British athletes is also helping aswell. The fat slimeball Alex Salmond will be pissed anyway there are so many anti English bigots and racists here in Scotland unfortunetley.

[callum9999]

(Original post by Gales)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-18381567

"The SNP has released figures which it says show an independent Scotland could be one of the richest in the EU."

I assume so. Dream over for them though, I guess...

What the SNP wants isn't really relevant though. Presumably they would have a referendum on EU membership - and I doubt that would be positive.

Although Scotland and Wales often like to pretend they are drastically different to England, they aren't at all. I don't think any area of the UK would vote positively on an EU referendum at the moment!

[Aek-94]

(Original post by Gales)
Also, it's rumoured that Spain would veto Scottish EU membership: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...p-6292846.html

The Spanish foreign minister confirmed that Spain wouldn't do this with Scotland: http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php...olutely-falseq

[Gales]

(Original post by Aek-94)
The Spanish foreign minister confirmed that Spain wouldn't do this with Scotland: http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php...olutely-falseq

I wouldn't trust the current Spanish government to be honest. Partido Popular says one thing one day, then changes the next day (they denied having asked for a bank bailout the day before they were bailed out). Partido Popular are possibly the most Spanish unionist a party can get (some of its creators were members of the Franco regime), if push comes to shove and Catalonia and Euskadi start pushing their independentist ideas more, it's likely that they'd veto. Also, there's nothing to say that the British government wouldn't veto. If I'm right, it only takes one veto?

[Spaz Man]

Doesn't that mean they would have to adopt the Euro as well now?

[Gales]

(Original post by Spaz Man)
Doesn't that mean they would have to adopt the Euro as well now?

As far as I'm aware, all new EU states have to adopt the Euro. So yeah.

[Aek-94]

(Original post by Gales)
I wouldn't trust the current Spanish government to be honest. Partido Popular says one thing one day, then changes the next day. Partido Popular are possibly the most Spanish unionist a party can get (some of its creators were members of the Franco regime), if push comes to shove and Catalonia and Euskadi start pushing their independentist ideas more, it's likely that they'd veto. Also, there's nothing to say that the British government wouldn't veto. If I'm right, it only takes one veto?

Yup you're correct, it only takes one veto to stop a country acceding to the EU. In fact if I recall correctly, Greece is currently vetoing the FYR Macedonia's entry due to naming issues, which consequently is stopping the EU from proceeding with their accession talks.

[callum9999]

(Original post by Gales)
I wouldn't trust the current Spanish government to be honest. Partido Popular says one thing one day, then changes the next day (they denied having asked for a bank bailout the day before they were bailed out). Partido Popular are possibly the most Spanish unionist a party can get (some of its creators were members of the Franco regime), if push comes to shove and Catalonia and Euskadi start pushing their independentist ideas more, it's likely that they'd veto. Also, there's nothing to say that the British government wouldn't veto. If I'm right, it only takes one veto?

Did they? My understanding of the whole thing was that they were disputing it constituted a bail out - and not that they were denying they needed money (which I'm pretty sure they even announced that it's likely they'd need the money?).

And the articles I've read have made it sound like Scotland just need a majority vote - and no-one can veto it.

(Original post by Aek-94)
Yup you're correct, it only takes one veto to stop a country acceding to the EU. In fact if I recall correctly, Greece is currently vetoing the FYR Macedonia's entry due to naming issues, which consequently is stopping the EU from proceeding with their accession talks.

For new countries yes - but I'm sure I read an article where the EU's lawyers said only a majority vote is required if a country splits from an existing member.

[navarre]

I am also someone who's wondered what pot Salmond and co are smoking. They want independence from the UK, but are happy to keep powers in the EU and away from Edinburgh?

It's almost like a bad joke.

[FrigidSymphony]

But Scotland is already a recognised country within the United Kingdom- surely that sets a different standard than the conditions for Catalan admission.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Shabalala)
I'm hoping the olympics can help get boost British feeling here in Scotland and from what I have seen so far it's working the torch relay really helped bring the nation together and the success of the British athletes is also helping aswell. The fat slimeball Alex Salmond will be pissed anyway there are so many anti English bigots and racists here in Scotland unfortunetley.

What country are you living in? Because it sure as hell ain't the Scotland I know. No one gives a **** about the Olympics, and the ones that do are probably laughing that 50% of Team GB's medals were won by Scots (9% of Team GB).

[Mazzini]

If they get independence and join the EU they'll have to give us free university too

[Psyk]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
But Scotland is already a recognised country within the United Kingdom- surely that sets a different standard than the conditions for Catalan admission.

No, why would it? Scotland's status as a constituent country of the UK isn't really relevant to international organisations like the EU. The UK as a whole is a member of the EU, I don't think the EU applies any special rules to the UK's subdivisions, whatever we have decided to call them.

In a political sense Scotland is comparable to Catalonia, the fact that we use the word "country" to describe Scotland but not Catalonia is irrelevant. If anything, Catalonia currently has greater autonomy than Scotland does. I can't see any relevant reason for the EU to treat the two differently should they become independent.

[Gales]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
But Scotland is already a recognised country within the United Kingdom- surely that sets a different standard than the conditions for Catalan admission.

No, of course not. Autonomous communities in Spain (typically, as they all have varying degrees of power) have more autonomy than countries in the UK.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Psyk)
No, why would it? Scotland's status as a constituent country of the UK isn't really relevant to international organisations like the EU. The UK as a whole is a member of the EU, I don't think the EU applies any special rules to the UK's subdivisions, whatever we have decided to call them.

In a political sense Scotland is comparable to Catalonia, the fact that we use the word "country" to describe Scotland but not Catalonia is irrelevant. If anything, Catalonia currently has greater autonomy than Scotland does. I can't see any relevant reason for the EU to treat the two differently should they become independent.

There is a difference though, Spain is a national state (a state made up of a single nation) whereas the UK is a nation-state (a state made up of various nations). I might have mixed up the labels but there is a distinction and it is relevant to international organisations.

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-I9300

[Good bloke]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
But Scotland is already a recognised country within the United Kingdom- surely that sets a different standard than the conditions for Catalan admission.

Terminology used within the UK - and that is all our use of the word country is when referring to Scotland - has no relevance to any other country or institution. The word has many different meanings according to context. The only salient fact here is that it isn't used of Scotland to mean sovereign state. As far as the rest of the world is concerned Scotland is currently merely a geographical region of the UK, just like England, Wales, Cornwall, Essex and Wirral.