[lonelykatana]

(Original post by Perseveranze)

As far as I see it wearing any sort of religious clothing is archaic, middle aged and poor for society. In fact, that's my opinion on religion as a whole.
But I don't think a Muslim is any more uncivilized than a Christian, in fact I don't think either are uncivilised. Both backward thinkers holding civilisation back, yep. But it's not like either religion or social group is completely full of nutters chanting death to 'insert other religion here' armed with sticks and AK47s.


OP, women wearing the hijab isn't as black and white as that.
If a woman chose to wear it of her own accord, then no - Shes not oppressed.
If a woman is forced to do so either through her family or law, when she does not want to wear it then yes - She is oppressed.

Nothing about life or religion is as simple as that, its all an ugly shades of off gray.
I personally don't agree with the french banning - I think all religious symbolism should be banned in public! But then again I think I'm a but of a nazi so lets be thankful people like me don't get into positions of power

[hhforever]

(Original post by IdeasForLife)
Some people look at women in Hijab and just assume they are oppressed and forced to wear it by their family.

Say a christian nun wears head covering, but noone really thinks they are oppressed, they just assume shes gave her life up for God...

Why does a muslim woman covering her head = oppressed?

Can somebody please stop this Christian and Muslims hate????????

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by MadamePuddifoot)
That's an extremely patronizing way to be told that I don't understand my own rights. Please explain what is happening.

When you put on a hijab, you are telling the world "I don't think I'm a real person, on equal terms with all of you; I'm nothing more than property owned by men, which is why God tells me to hide myself and be modest, that I may minimize my humanity and be treated like the chattel I really am."

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by zeropoint)
Do women wear high heels because the practical functions outweigh the impractical nature of them, or because society expects women to wear them?

Probably a bit of both? I don't know, when do women usually wear high heels? Formal events? Somewhere they might want to be a little bit taller? Or somewhere they might want to be showing off their sexuality (which is why heels curve women's feet to the position they adopt when they orgasm)?

I also think we're progressed enough as a society to have come up with alternatives for women who don't want to wear heels to formal events, and there's no stigma on them to do so.

[MadamePuddifoot]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
When you put on a hijab, you are telling the world "I don't think I'm a real person, on equal terms with all of you; I'm nothing more than property owned by men, which is why God tells me to hide myself and be modest, that I may minimize my humanity and be treated like the chattel I really am."

How does hijab decrease my humanity? It conceals my beauty but it does not label me as 'property'. You are simply exposing your own ignorance with these misinformed statements.

[Rat_Bag]

(Original post by Maliha Ahmed)
Okay, so how does it oppress? It doesn't oppress me, I get good results in my subjects, I'm not any less confident than you, I have a great social life.

It may not oppress you (or at least you may not be aware of it oppressing you), but that is not the case for all women.

Hijab is oppressive in principle because it serves is it enforced as an obligation for individual women to wear, and it is something that only affects herself. There is scriptural coercion to force women to wear it (women who don't are disobedient, and disobedient women will be punished). Likewise comes the community peer pressure. And there is the symbolic aspect that is a way women must behave and conform, that does not apply to men.

Of course, you might be totally oblivious to all this (you probably are, judging by your shallow comment earlier). Lots of people are very oppressed without knowing it.

[CosmicVengeance]

(Original post by Dragonfly07)
Women who wear the Hijab literally scream "I wear this cloth because I believe that if I don't wear it and I happen to be raped, it is my own fault".

I don't understand why people think that if a woman makes a choice to be oppressed, it's not oppression.

You could wear a hijab because you choose to wear one or because you're forced to wear one, physically or mentally. That does NOT change the message the hijab carries across.

It's nice that most muslims don't follow the quran and the hadiths to the letter.

Most? L

[Maliha Ahmed]

(Original post by Rat_Bag)
It may not oppress you (or at least you may not be aware of it oppressing you), but that is not the case for all women.

Hijab is oppressive in principle because it serves is it enforced as an obligation for individual women to wear, and it is something that only affects herself. There is scriptural coercion to force women to wear it (women who don't are disobedient, and disobedient women will be punished). Likewise comes the community peer pressure. And there is the symbolic aspect that is a way women must behave and conform, that does not apply to men.

Of course, you might be totally oblivious to all this (you probably are, judging by your shallow comment earlier). Lots of people are very oppressed without knowing it.

Some might be(when some girls are forced to wear it, but it's not because of Islam, it's simply becauseof their culture) BUT I'm not at all, I'm so happy and thankful to Allah & Islam that it has given me such a beautiful gift that protects me when no one is safe in the world today.

[Dragonfly07]

(Original post by CosmicVengeance)
Most? L

Yes, most.

[supraman]

(Original post by Dragonfly07)
Yes, most.

So whenever a women chooses to cover herself out of her choice, screams oppression
woow i never knew that, do you not see the stupidity of your argument.

So when are given the choice to cover themselves as they will, its oppression, so what? you tell them that they can't and that's not oppression by dictating what they should wear

[Hypocrism]

(Original post by supraman)
So whenever a women chooses to cover herself out of her choice, screams oppression
woow i never knew that, do you not see the stupidity of your argument.

So when are given the choice to cover themselves as they will, its oppression, so what? you tell them that they can't and that's not oppression by dictating what they should wear

The fact that there's a text saying that good muslim women cover themselves, which influences their decision towards covering, makes it oppression even in some cases when they make the decision themselves. I.E. A cultural trend started by men (because we should all be clear by now that it's not from god) to make women subservient.

[High VOLTAGE]

(Original post by Hypocrism)
The fact that there's a text saying that good muslim women cover themselves, which influences their decision towards covering, makes it oppression even in some cases when they make the decision themselves. I.E. A cultural trend started by men (because we should all be clear by now that it's not from god) to make women subservient.

Just sit back and watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qICsR-7gQi0

[Hypocrism]

(Original post by MadamePuddifoot)
How does hijab decrease my humanity? It conceals my beauty but it does not label me as 'property'. You are simply exposing your own ignorance with these misinformed statements.

The labelling as property comes from the idea that a husband owns his wife's body because only he is given the "privilege" of seeing her uncovered. Hence, materialistic marking of women as men's sexual property. Of course, since Islam (and the other modern religions-don't get the impression I'm picking on Islam) came from cultures where ownership of women was commonplace, and men actually sold their wives for other men to "use" for a night, it's not surprising that such barbaric ownership remains in the scripture.

[Hypocrism]

(Original post by High VOLTAGE)
Just sit back and watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qICsR-7gQi0

Very good poem. But again, one woman =/= all women, and it's not really relevant to my post. I don't know about this poet but it seems likely she was brought up in a society that thinks nudity is immoral and covering is "good"-an Islam society. She makes stereotypes about women who enjoy showing off their bodies, considering them automatically stupid and "air-headed". That already shows how her opinions have almost certainly been warped by her society or her religion, because such judgemental thinking is based on stereotypes that simply aren't real or fair.

The difference between the oppressed poet (yes-I consider someone who judges those who don't cover to be oppressed) and a liberal person: the poet proclaims her right to cover but thinks people who don't cover are immoral, or wrong, or stupid. A liberal person proclaims everybody's right to do what they want and calls it oppression if they are pressured in any way.

[MadamePuddifoot]

(Original post by Hypocrism)
The labelling as property comes from the idea that a husband owns his wife's body because only he is given the "privilege" of seeing her uncovered. Hence, materialistic marking of women as men's sexual property. Of course, since Islam (and the other modern religions-don't get the impression I'm picking on Islam) came from cultures where ownership of women was commonplace, and men actually sold their wives for other men to "use" for a night, it's not surprising that such barbaric ownership remains in the scripture.

I'd be grateful if you could direct me to references in the quran or sunnah to both the use of the word 'privilege' with regards to the husband being able to see his wife's body as well as the practice of selling one's wife for a night as you described.

[High VOLTAGE]

(Original post by Hypocrism)
Very good poem. But again, one woman =/= all women, and it's not really relevant to my post. I don't know about this poet but it seems likely she was brought up in a society that thinks nudity is immoral and covering is "good"-an Islam society. She makes stereotypes about women who enjoy showing off their bodies, considering them automatically stupid and "air-headed". That already shows how her opinions have almost certainly been warped by her society or her religion, because such judgemental thinking is based on stereotypes that simply aren't real or fair.

The difference between the oppressed poet (yes-I consider someone who judges those who don't cover to be oppressed) and a liberal person: the poet proclaims her right to cover but thinks people who don't cover are immoral, or wrong, or stupid. A liberal person proclaims everybody's right to do what they want and calls it oppression if they are pressured in any way.

She was born and raised in the USA, she shows the contradictions of some feminists and people conforming to what society and the media tell them to be.

[Rat_Bag]

(Original post by Maliha Ahmed)
Some might be(when some girls are forced to wear it, but it's not because of Islam, it's simply becauseof their culture)

Like I said, you might not feel oppressed, but it doesn't mean that you're not. Some people are happy in their oppression; ignorance is bliss.

And just to reiterate, Islam bullies women into wearing hijab, threatening them with the mark of disobedience if they don't obey, and we all know what the punishment for disobedience is in Islam.

(Original post by Maliha Ahmed)
BUT I'm not at all, I'm so happy and thankful to Allah & Islam that it has given me such a beautiful gift that protects me when no one is safe in the world today.

So you are oppressed. You cannot go out without a piece of cloth because of an oppressive fear of the world around you. You've said it yourself. End of story.

[Theoneoranro]

(Original post by MathematicsKiller)
All traditional religions rely on indoctrination to survive. So, yes, oppression.

Are you a complete f*cking moron? I'll tell you what oppression would be, it would be if you didn't allow a woman to cover her head when she really wanted to do it as it was a part of her beliefs. And i'm an atheist too.

[Hypocrism]

(Original post by High VOLTAGE)
She was born and raised in the USA, she shows the contradictions of some feminists and people conforming to what society and the media tell them to be.

Not really. She sees contradictions because of her preconceptions of wearing revealing clothing which derive from her religion. Really there are no contradictions in the concept of wearing revealing clothes and being feminist.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by MadamePuddifoot)
How does hijab decrease my humanity? It conceals my beauty but it does not label me as 'property'. You are simply exposing your own ignorance with these misinformed statements.

I'm afraid that's the very purpose of assigning women restrictive clothing, and it happens and has happened in almost all Abrahamic religions. Islam is no different.