[IndyAM]

(Original post by Mister Dead)
What if you and friend are sitting next to me. I find it extremely offensive. Do I not count?

If I did not direct it at you, you should not be offended. Why would you be, if I was not referring to you?

[Mister Dead]

(Original post by IndyAM)
If I did not direct it at you, you should not be offended. Why would you be, if I was not referring to you?

are you honestly saying that something cannot be offensive or morally wrong unless it is directed at yourself? This is incredibly self-centred and ignorant.

[Jimbo1234]

(Original post by cyfer)
How is 'Jerry' racist?

It was what the Germans were called during WW2. It would be the same as calling a Korean a g**k.

[IndyAM]

(Original post by Mister Dead)
are you honestly saying that something cannot be offensive or morally wrong unless it is directed at yourself? This is incredibly self-centred and ignorant.

If I wanted to use those words in public, I would go ahead and do so. If you were offended by the then that's your problem, especially if I hadn't used the word to refer to you.

Offense is subjective. It's hard to please all of the people all of the time. If you used a derogatory word based around race directed at me, I'd like to think I'd laugh it off.

The only one with the chip on their shoulder... is you.

[Kittiara]

I'm Dutch, and English is my second language, and nobody's ever needed to explain to me that using the N word is a great big no-no. Why on Earth would I ever want to use it?

Besides, the Dutch version of the N word isn't that different than the English version, and it isn't an acceptable term in the Netherlands either, so it's not like he wouldn't know...

As for the Jerry one, I am not actually familiar with it. He may find it funny, because German and Dutch people tend to like to tease the other, in a light-hearted way, and we get quite competitive when there's a football championship on. However, reading what it means on this thread, it's definitely not a term I would use.

If you've had a word with him and he still doesn't get it, it's not to do with him being Dutch, or English being his second language, and more to do with him not wanting to know, in my opinion.

[Lumos]

all guys who think they're G call their friends that. It's become trendy as far as I can tell, at least it was at my college. N.B., neither they nor any of their friends were actually black... I don't think he's being racist, just trying to be cool...

[Mister Dead]

(Original post by IndyAM)
If I wanted to use those words in public, I would go ahead and do so. If you were offended by the then that's your problem.

That's quite an incredible mental maneuver you've just pulled. This language served as a pejorative framework to undermine and de-humanise people - people who suffered this psycholofical and physical torture for decades and decades. And what's so brilliant is that if someone is offended by this, this language we've attempted to eradicate from contemporary pejorative use because historically it represents such repulsive human acts and attitudes, if someone is offended by this, it's their problem - they are the one with a problem.

Wake up. Nice try though.

and i've just seen your avatar LOL

[Tinberry]

(Original post by kitari)
Just let him know the negative connotations of the word. The poor guy probably doesn't realise that it's bad and everyone is too polite to correct him.

Ive tried to explain but he seems to think im making fun of him or he'll tell me thats just my interpretation of english :/

(Original post by Jimbo1234)

It was what the Germans were called during WW2. It would be the same as calling a Korean a g**k.

Yes he uses this too. He picked it up from war films I think.

[Tinberry]

(Original post by Kittiara)
I'm Dutch, and English is my second language, and nobody's ever needed to explain to me that using the N word is a great big no-no. Why on Earth would I ever want to use it?...

If you've had a word with him and he still doesn't get it, it's not to do with him being Dutch, or English being his second language, and more to do with him not wanting to know, in my opinion.

Thanks for your imput on this one. I know most Dutch, in fact most Europeans, speak some level of English and my friend's is very good but I've always sort of let him off with the offensive things as its his second language. I don't speak Dutch so yes perhaps he uses similar terms normally and I just don't realise.

I'd hope it isn't a personality thing as he is a friend but I can't side step the awkward moments when he says these things or constantly explain I and others are offended forever.

[Kittiara]

(Original post by Tinberry)
Thanks for your imput on this one. I know most Dutch, in fact most Europeans, speak some level of English and my friend's is very good but I've always sort of let him off with the offensive things as its his second language. I don't speak Dutch so yes perhaps he uses similar terms normally and I just don't realise.

I'd hope it isn't a personality thing as he is a friend but I can't side step the awkward moments when he says these things or constantly explain I and others are offended forever.

I'm sad to say it, but if your friend's English is very good, he will definitely be aware of what he's saying.

He may be, like someone else has mentioned, trying to be cool. Does he watch a lot of movies in which guys address the other like that, or listen to music in which the word is used?

Even so, I am sure that he's intelligent enough to know that certain words/terms are offensive, and he should know better than to use them, especially when it's been explained to him that they do cause offense.

I can't judge his personality, of course, but I have to say that when you know you're making your friends uncomfortable, and you keep on doing what you're doing anyway, then that's not very nice. You're really kind to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I hope he starts listening to you. He should, if he values your friendship.

[IndyAM]

(Original post by Mister Dead)
That's quite an incredible mental maneuver you've just pulled. This language served as a pejorative framework to undermine and de-humanise people - people who suffered this psycholofical and physical torture for decades and decades. And what's so brilliant is that if someone is offended by this, this language we've attempted to eradicate from contemporary pejorative use because historically it represents such repulsive human acts and attitudes, if someone is offended by this, it's their problem - they are the one with a problem.

Wake up. Nice try though.

and i've just seen your avatar LOL

White Guilt, you're trying hard, but I'm not responsible for the actions of my forefathers.

Wow, I've seen your avatar too, isn't the internet amazing?

[Mister Dead]

(Original post by IndyAM)
[I]White Guilt, you're trying hard, but I'm not responsible for the actions of my forefathers

Bad things happened before, but because you weren't responsible, you can do bad things now. What kind of oddball logic is that?

You're still an awful person if you do it knowingly. This isn't some 'edgy' comedy that some people might find offensive, some cutting, experimental satire. This is everyday language that we've adapted because there are pejorative words that represent genuinely awful periods in time and actions within them. White guilt? Jees, get a backbone and start trying to do the right thing, instead of just blindly and ignorantly flailing about, then looking for buzz phrases that haphazardly and illogically seem to fit into some sort of justification. It's so macho, and childish.

[Fallen]

(Original post by Mister Dead)
Right, but I asked about black people. and black people very much haven't disappeared, quite the opposite.

So it's ok for me to use that derogatory and racist comment at you?

It is only derogatory or racist if it is meant in that way, or are the vibrations of the air somehow inherantly evil?

At other times or in other languages it isn't derogatory at all. Heck there are countries called Niger and Nigeria.

It is racist if you say "You effing n-word" because it is being used as an insult, in the same way that saying "You effing black person" is an insult because that is making their colour part of the insult.
However if you said "Nelson Mandela is a black person" that is not racist or an insult, it is a fact about his appearance. Society has decided that the n-word has negative connotations, which may or may not be intended by the user of said word.

Personally I don't say it because I know how people might constue my use of it, but how can you blame a foreign person for using a word which, after all, literally just means "Black".

It is exactly the same as swearing at friends is not typically seen as offensive: "Bastard!" as they steal the last juice in the cafeteria, whereas in another context is would be very offensive.

People should only be offended if offense was meant. If someone uses "Black" or the n-word in an offensive way then be offended. If not, why be offended?

[sarahthegemini]

I think it all depends on context.

[IndyAM]

(Original post by Mister Dead)
Bad things happened before, but because you weren't responsible, you can do bad things now. What kind of oddball logic is that?

You're still an awful person if you do it knowingly. This isn't some 'edgy' comedy that some people might find offensive, some cutting, experimental satire. This is everyday language that we've adapted because there are pejorative words that represent genuinely awful periods in time and actions within them. White guilt? Jees, get a backbone and start trying to do the right thing, instead of just blindly and ignorantly flailing about, then looking for buzz phrases that haphazardly and illogically seem to fit into some sort of justification. It's so macho, and childish.

No, you misunderstand. bad things happened before, you're trying to say that because people before have done bad things, we should pander to the ancestors of those who bad things were done to.

**** me, you're obnoxious. Not everyone shares the same morality, you know? People should be allowed to say whatever they like as long as it is not directed at another person or meant to offend them. Agree?

[hamza7]

(Original post by PhoenixFortune)
Am I the only one who thought this thread would be about Christmas and Easter holidays at school/uni being insensitive to other religions?



Okay, just me then.

Haha really?
No where near either one so I'm not sure how that came into your head

[Mister Dead]

(Original post by IndyAM)
No, you misunderstand. bad things happened before, you're trying to say that because people before have done bad things, we should pander to the ancestors of those who bad things were done to.

**** me, you're obnoxious. Not everyone shares the same morality, you know? People should be allowed to say whatever they like as long as it is not directed at another person or meant to offend them. Agree?

No I don't, I totally disagree.

What does people having different moralities have to do with wether it's right or wrong? Nothing whatsoever.

You're seem to think these words are just fine to use in public so long as the person you're talking to isn't offended, but it offends me greatly. And there are many many people that it offends greatly, not least all the people that it refers to. They're incitement to hatred, they're bullying, dehumanising, and some people realise that might be more important than their self centred, child-like need to be able to say anything they like, and sod everyone else.

Calling me obnoxious doesn't make you right. You're not, you're wrong and you're an insensitive thug.

And your use of terms like 'white guilt' and 'pander to' are just brainless attempst to shift the guilt away from yourself. It's not pandering, it's the right thing to do, because we are a civilised country and don't tolerate that kind of bullying.

We want to protect people, often the vulnerable, from pejorative language that is inciting hatred, and is bullying, and is unacceptable, and you think tha'st special treatment!

Go back to your cave.

[Mister Dead]

(Original post by Fallen)
It is only derogatory or racist if it is meant in that way, or are the vibrations of the air somehow inherantly evil?

At other times or in other languages it isn't derogatory at all. Heck there are countries called Niger and Nigeria.

It is racist if you say "You effing n-word" because it is being used as an insult, in the same way that saying "You effing black person" is an insult because that is making their colour part of the insult.
However if you said "Nelson Mandela is a black person" that is not racist or an insult, it is a fact about his appearance. Society has decided that the n-word has negative connotations, which may or may not be intended by the user of said word.

Personally I don't say it because I know how people might constue my use of it, but how can you blame a foreign person for using a word which, after all, literally just means "Black".

It is exactly the same as swearing at friends is not typically seen as offensive: "Bastard!" as they steal the last juice in the cafeteria, whereas in another context is would be very offensive.

People should only be offended if offense was meant. If someone uses "Black" or the n-word in an offensive way then be offended. If not, why be offended?

right yeah, you need to go back and read this thread more carefully. matey above thinks it's perfectly acceptable to go down the pub, sit in a garden full of people, and say to his friend, i dunno...

man you're one hell of a dirty little ****** (N word)

or

you're such a horrible little faggot

or

you're such a disability little ******* (S word for disability)


He thinks that's fine, that he can say anything he likes so long as the other person you're talking to is fine with it. I mean serously, what sort of logic is that. That something is fine as long as two people agree??? This stuff doesn't affect only two people, it affects people around you. It's a national mindset and we've changed it to protect people from that kind of horrible abuse because we're not savages. Nobody is ever going to say you can't ever use or discuss these words, we're talking about them being used as pejorative terms. Look up what a faggot is. some claim its origin is from executing homosexuals by buring them on a fire. When we call people faggots, that's part of the the history of that word. It's not acceptable and i'm glad I live in a country that's making that unnaceptable.

[jordltfc]

(Original post by PhoenixFortune)
Am I the only one who thought this thread would be about Christmas and Easter holidays at school/uni being insensitive to other religions?



Okay, just me then.

Spoiler:

Show

Definitely just you

[Fallen]

(Original post by Mister Dead)
When we call people faggots, that's part of the the history of that word. It's not acceptable and i'm glad I live in a country that's making that unnaceptable.

"Gay" started with a derogatory meaning. Admittedly nothing to do with burning people alive, but does the same principal not apply there?

I don't see the etymology of a word at all relevant unless the user of the word is aware of it and is alluring to its original meaning or connotations.

I don't agree with using "faggot" as a curse word, I was just making a general point.