[TheHansa]

We know you can train for different things, and that to gain strength is train low reps at high weight and this generally makes people 'big' provided diet is also right, so physically what is the difference between muscle trained for endurance and muscle trained for strength?

[TooEasy123]

endurance is related to developing energy systems.

[HFerguson]

^ this, wish I could rep you (edit: repped)

muscle endurance isn't about muscle size, more to do with the muscle cells' adaptations and ways in which it produces energy and deals with waste products (CO2 and lactic acid come to mind)

[McHumpy92]

Agreed, great post from Too Easy123. So many sports people think because they do a more endurance sport it means they have to do super high reps in the gym. You're better off just building strength in the gym with low reps and endurance by actually doing your sport specific training.

[Nichrome]

(Original post by McHumpy92)
Agreed, great post from Too Easy123. So many sports people think because they do a more endurance sport it means they have to do super high reps in the gym. You're better off just building strength in the gym with low reps and endurance by actually doing your sport specific training.

I agree also. It seems that it goes against the advice given to many endurance athletes though who are told usually to do low weight high reps, when I personally have found I get the most out of my sport by doing a high weight and low reps to improve strength.

[ch0c0h01ic]

(Original post by McHumpy92)
Agreed, great post from Too Easy123. So many sports people think because they do a more endurance sport it means they have to do super high reps in the gym. You're better off just building strength in the gym with low reps and endurance by actually doing your sport specific training.

Questionable.

Training at a high percentage of your 1RM stimulates more neurological changes than metabolic and/or local muscular endurance. Sure you can develop some endurance through training with higher weights and less reps (which may suit the casual gym goer) but it isn't specific or optimal for an endurance athlete. Most endurance athletes predominantly train with moderate-high amounts of reps (eg; 10-20 reps a set) and that is founded on a large amount of sport science and practical experience.

[McHumpy92]

(Original post by ch0c0h01ic)
Questionable.

Training at a high percentage of your 1RM stimulates more neurological changes than metabolic and/or local muscular endurance. Sure you can develop some endurance through training with higher weights and less reps (which may suit the casual gym goer) but it isn't specific or optimal for an endurance athlete. Most endurance athletes predominantly train with moderate-high amounts of reps (eg; 10-20 reps a set) and that is founded on a large amount of sport science and practical experience.

Links?

Also proven to be better than low reps? or just proven to improve performance?

I agree a lot of endurance athletes do higher reps, doesn't mean it is the best way.

[TooEasy123]

I'd say the higher your max strength, the greater your potential for endurance, within reason. However just because someone is stronger, doesn't mean their endurance will be better. But what I mean is if they trained for endurance already going into it with higher strength (relative to the exercise), then they'd improve their endurance faster.

[ch0c0h01ic]

(Original post by McHumpy92)
Links?

It is well documented in physiology/sport physiology textbooks. "The Physiology of Training" is more user friendly and well worth a read.

As for studies:

Early Muscular Fitness Adaptations in Children in Response to Two Different Resistance Training Regimens

"...The LRM and HRM groups made significantly greater gains in 1 RM strength (21% and 23%, respectively) as compared with the control group (1%). Only the HRM group made significantly greater gains in 15 RM local muscular endurance (42%) and flexibility (15%) than that recorded in the control group (4% and ¿5%, respectively)..."

Muscular adaptations in response to three different resistance-training regimens: specificity of repetition maximum training zones

"...Maximal strength improved significantly more for the Low Rep group compared to the other training groups, and the maximal number of repetitions at 60% 1RM improved the most for the High Rep group....The High Rep group, however, appeared better adapted for submaximal, prolonged contractions, with significant increases after training in aerobic power and time to exhaustion... "

The Effects of Different Resistance Training Protocols on Muscular Strength and Endurance Development in Children

"...Leg extension muscular endurance significantly increased in both exercise groups compared with that in the control subjects, although gains resulting from high repetition–moderate load training (13.1 ± 6.2 repetitions) were significantly greater than those resulting from low repetition–heavy load training (8.7 ± 2.9 repetitions)..."

Strength/Endurance Effects from three Resistance Training Protocols with Women

""...High resistance low repetition training yielded greater strength gains. Low resistance high repetition training generally produced greater muscular endurance gains, and the percentage increase in absolute endurance was approximately twice the increase in strength of all groups..."

Sadly I no longer have access to my university subscription which would have probably produced more/"better" studies.

Also proven to be better than low reps? or just proven to improve performance?

Both.

I agree a lot of endurance athletes do higher reps, doesn't mean it is the best way.

Where is the evidence that proves that it isn't?

[McHumpy92]

(Original post by ch0c0h01ic)
It is well documented in physiology/sport physiology textbooks. "The Physiology of Training" is more user friendly and well worth a read.

As for studies:

Early Muscular Fitness Adaptations in Children in Response to Two Different Resistance Training Regimens

"...The LRM and HRM groups made significantly greater gains in 1 RM strength (21% and 23%, respectively) as compared with the control group (1%). Only the HRM group made significantly greater gains in 15 RM local muscular endurance (42%) and flexibility (15%) than that recorded in the control group (4% and ¿5%, respectively)..."

Muscular adaptations in response to three different resistance-training regimens: specificity of repetition maximum training zones

"...Maximal strength improved significantly more for the Low Rep group compared to the other training groups, and the maximal number of repetitions at 60% 1RM improved the most for the High Rep group....The High Rep group, however, appeared better adapted for submaximal, prolonged contractions, with significant increases after training in aerobic power and time to exhaustion... "

The Effects of Different Resistance Training Protocols on Muscular Strength and Endurance Development in Children

"...Leg extension muscular endurance significantly increased in both exercise groups compared with that in the control subjects, although gains resulting from high repetition–moderate load training (13.1 ± 6.2 repetitions) were significantly greater than those resulting from low repetition–heavy load training (8.7 ± 2.9 repetitions)..."

Strength/Endurance Effects from three Resistance Training Protocols with Women

""...High resistance low repetition training yielded greater strength gains. Low resistance high repetition training generally produced greater muscular endurance gains, and the percentage increase in absolute endurance was approximately twice the increase in strength of all groups..."

Sadly I no longer have access to my university subscription which would have probably produced more/"better" studies.



Both.



Where is the evidence that proves that it isn't?

Nice post, but I knew doing higher rep bench press would make you better at repping bench press, but it doesn't make you better at endurance sports.

Low reps generally make less hypertrophy, make you more explosive for sprint finishes and help with stability.

As the person originally pointed out, for endurance athletes their endurance is built by doing long runs, rows etc and not in the gym.

So yeah I feel they would be better off focusing on building strength/stability in the gym and endurance in their sport specific training.


But reading the OP's post I can see he was basically talking about in the gym anyway, rather than actual endurance sports and your post does answer that, where me and the others went off topic.

[ch0c0h01ic]

(Original post by McHumpy92)
Nice post, but I knew doing higher rep bench press would make you better at repping bench press, but it doesn't make you better at endurance sports.

The same underlying principles apply regardless of the context.

Training with higher repetitions in the squat/split-squat/lunge/etc is going to be more sport specific and have more carry over for a distance runner (for example) than lower rep, absolute strength training.

Low reps generally make less hypertrophy, make you more explosive for sprint finishes and help with stability.

"Sprint finishes" in itself is are bit of a misnomer. It is more of a show of muscular endurance (ie; being able to maintain force output despite accumulating fatigue) rather than explosive power. Again the metabolic benefits derived from training with higher reps are probably going to be more beneficial.

As for stability that can be built at any rep range. In theory training with higher reps would be more beneficial for endurance athletes because they are required to maintain core/ankle/knee/etc stability for relatively long periods of time.

As the person originally pointed out, for endurance athletes their endurance is built by doing long runs, rows etc and not in the gym.

So yeah I feel they would be better off focusing on building strength/stability in the gym and endurance in their sport specific training.

If you're taking things seriously and want to do things properly every aspect of your training should be sport specific, even strength and stability training.

It is important to remember that most endurance athletes don't need to be particularly strong or spend much time in the weights room.

[NotYourAverage']

There are many variables when it comes to lifting weights, or exercise in general. particularly body types. An ectormorph will typically focus on a routine which helps promote strength gains and less use volume, whereas the endomorph will opt for something else entirely.

also, lifting weights is a tiny portion of gaining muscle mass or strength, it is nutrition that determines most of your outcome.