Tia Sharp- are we really surprised?
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I'm really disgusted by how you can turn the tragic murder of a young girl into a platform to spout your own political agenda and enlighten us with your 'worldly' ways. Pretty sure everyone here, even those who haven't been in deprived areas, has the intellectual and emotional intelligence to understand that the world isn't all rosy and socio-economic conditions often have a tremendous impact.
How you conflate this specifically to her background is absurd. You can get people in council houses on benefits who are the nicest people you’ll ever meet, and you can get millionaires living in mansions or country houses that are absolute scum of the earth.
Have some respect, honestly.
How you conflate this specifically to her background is absurd. You can get people in council houses on benefits who are the nicest people you’ll ever meet, and you can get millionaires living in mansions or country houses that are absolute scum of the earth.
Have some respect, honestly.
To relate a murder case into politic is absurd, but the relation between murder and the killer background has been studied. There were some statistics as well, but as the saying goes, correlation does not imply causation.
There was this good book titled "Inside of a Criminal Mind" or so that discussed such statistics. The book, I believe, was written by an ex-FBI agent based on years of his professional experience.
I read somewhere (either in that book or somewhere on the internet) about criminal profiling. For example, it has been found that, statistically, serial killers are often those which were abused or neglected by their fathers during their childhood, or having mothers who are sex workers. They were habitually wetting their beds as kids (due to severe emotional trauma), often humiliated (which made them angry and as a result of this anger they would harm animals or little children), etc. Over 70% of these murderers fit to that profiles. Lack of compassion from family made them emotionally detached and could not feel sympathy to their victims etc. Then again, there were many types of murderers. A murder could happen because of pleasure (which stem from psychopathy), strong motives (such as money, jealousy, etc), unintentional motive (self defense), mental illness (often found on mass murderers or people go on shooting rampage), etc. To say that they are mostly done by underclass people is unsubstantiated. Then again, to say that "I am raised in a humble family but I don't become a murderer" is not quite relevant, because you can't make a statistics out of an individual example.... I hope that I don't offend anyone personally, I only make a general observation...
---------------
Here is the book and an excerpt from the book (emphasizes are mines):
http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Criminal-Mind-Revised-Updated/dp/140004619X
"In 1984, this groundbreaking book presented a chilling profile of the criminal mind that shattered long-held myths about the sources of and cures for crime. Now, with the benefit of twenty years' worth of additional knowledge and insight, Stanton Samenow offers a completely updated edition of his classic work, including fresh perceptions into crimes in the spotlight today, from stalking and domestic violence to white-collar crime and political terrorism.
Dr. Samenow's three decades of working with criminals have reaffirmed his argument that factors such as poverty, divorce, and media violence do not cause criminality. Rather, as Samenow documents here, all criminals share a particular mind-set--often evident in childhood--that is disturbingly different from that of a responsible citizen. "
There was this good book titled "Inside of a Criminal Mind" or so that discussed such statistics. The book, I believe, was written by an ex-FBI agent based on years of his professional experience.
I read somewhere (either in that book or somewhere on the internet) about criminal profiling. For example, it has been found that, statistically, serial killers are often those which were abused or neglected by their fathers during their childhood, or having mothers who are sex workers. They were habitually wetting their beds as kids (due to severe emotional trauma), often humiliated (which made them angry and as a result of this anger they would harm animals or little children), etc. Over 70% of these murderers fit to that profiles. Lack of compassion from family made them emotionally detached and could not feel sympathy to their victims etc. Then again, there were many types of murderers. A murder could happen because of pleasure (which stem from psychopathy), strong motives (such as money, jealousy, etc), unintentional motive (self defense), mental illness (often found on mass murderers or people go on shooting rampage), etc. To say that they are mostly done by underclass people is unsubstantiated. Then again, to say that "I am raised in a humble family but I don't become a murderer" is not quite relevant, because you can't make a statistics out of an individual example.... I hope that I don't offend anyone personally, I only make a general observation...
---------------
Here is the book and an excerpt from the book (emphasizes are mines):
http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Criminal-Mind-Revised-Updated/dp/140004619X
"In 1984, this groundbreaking book presented a chilling profile of the criminal mind that shattered long-held myths about the sources of and cures for crime. Now, with the benefit of twenty years' worth of additional knowledge and insight, Stanton Samenow offers a completely updated edition of his classic work, including fresh perceptions into crimes in the spotlight today, from stalking and domestic violence to white-collar crime and political terrorism.
Dr. Samenow's three decades of working with criminals have reaffirmed his argument that factors such as poverty, divorce, and media violence do not cause criminality. Rather, as Samenow documents here, all criminals share a particular mind-set--often evident in childhood--that is disturbingly different from that of a responsible citizen. "
Original post by billydisco
-12 year old grand daughter
-46 year old grandmother
-37 year old "step grandfather"
Says it all really doesn't it?
who said you cant stereotype??? Odds-on they have a staffordshire bull terrier!
A few times people have asked me what do I suggest if people have children who can't afford them and I want to reduce benefits. I said remove them from the family for a reason- because it can't get any worse than growing up in this kind of family!
When Cameron spoke about "Broken Britain" this is EXACTLY what he was referring to. The problem is too many TSR users sit in their nice comfy quiet 4 bedroomed houses in a cul-de-sac, trying to pretend they understand how the world works, belittle anyone who reads the Daily Mail as people who believe anything (I would say DM readers are more in touch with the real world than most of you lot) and claim that this isn't wide-spread.......
Just you wait until the offspring of the Eastern European immigrants begin to mature..... When you invite half of Romania to live in the UK guess which country we'll start to resemble..... Romania perhaps?
Now that those in question have finished reading this- get back to studying or you will never get a job with the EU, Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation or be allowed to help the Liberal Democrats with canvassing.....
-46 year old grandmother
-37 year old "step grandfather"
Says it all really doesn't it?
who said you cant stereotype??? Odds-on they have a staffordshire bull terrier!
A few times people have asked me what do I suggest if people have children who can't afford them and I want to reduce benefits. I said remove them from the family for a reason- because it can't get any worse than growing up in this kind of family!
When Cameron spoke about "Broken Britain" this is EXACTLY what he was referring to. The problem is too many TSR users sit in their nice comfy quiet 4 bedroomed houses in a cul-de-sac, trying to pretend they understand how the world works, belittle anyone who reads the Daily Mail as people who believe anything (I would say DM readers are more in touch with the real world than most of you lot) and claim that this isn't wide-spread.......
Just you wait until the offspring of the Eastern European immigrants begin to mature..... When you invite half of Romania to live in the UK guess which country we'll start to resemble..... Romania perhaps?
Now that those in question have finished reading this- get back to studying or you will never get a job with the EU, Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation or be allowed to help the Liberal Democrats with canvassing.....
So you say people are narrow minded that they cannot see or understand what is happening in the economically deprived neighbourhoods. I say you are the narrow minded one because you have just characterised a country (21 mil. people) by the stereotypes that the media feeds you and the 1 or 2 romanians you have met and found to be rude/idiots/whatever. Thing is, chances are those guys were actually idiots, but that has nothing to do with the country from which they come.
You whine about Eastern European immigration that it will turn the UK (or England? didn't specify) into an Eastern European country. What do you exactly mean by that? The UK will fall into dictatorship? It will start switching to a language that uses more consonants? Or what?
The Eastern Europeans who actually do come here, do it to be able to benefit from an educational system that is of a higher quality than their own. The numbers of immigrants from EE that come here just to work is currently insignificant, as there are countries out there who are far more attractive for that at the moment.
That means the people who come here will be students, just like most of the people on TSR. They will learn, pass exams, graduate and then get a job. They will not make 12 kids and send them to become pickpockets on the streets, they will have a normal family. And you know why? Because they are people. Stop stereotyping people in relation to their background.
Eastern European countries are where they are now because of their history, their former and current political systems and their poor economy. Not because the people living there are murderers and thieves.
Also, when you want to make a point and address immigration, use a more general term (as in Eastern Europe), rather than an exact country. Because that just makes it look personal and kills your argument.
(edited 11 years ago)
Her mum was 19 when she had Tia and her Grandma was 15 when she had Tia's mum.
OP- Despite your ridiculous idea that we're all sitting in gorgeous big houses with our middle class parents I personally live in a two up two down (with a third bedroom put in the loft by our landlord to get as much cash as possible) in the most deprived area in the south west. The week before last someone got shot in the face by a london gang two roads over from my house and no one in my area was even surprised. I couldn't walk out of my front door to the corner shop without seeing someone who is drunk or high (and I don't mean on weed) in the street whatever the time of day or night and I can pick out the dealers in my neighbourhood despite not taking drugs (it's all in the car). I understand perfectly well how the world works and can observe from my bedroom window dysfunctional families like Tia's everyday. And I still don't agree with you in the slightest.
It's disgusting you've connected a young girl's murder by a BRITISH family to eastern european immigration. She wasn't killed by an immigrant so the whole immigration debate isn't relevant. It's really distasteful to hijack a tragedy to try and ram your political agenda down people's throats.
OP- Despite your ridiculous idea that we're all sitting in gorgeous big houses with our middle class parents I personally live in a two up two down (with a third bedroom put in the loft by our landlord to get as much cash as possible) in the most deprived area in the south west. The week before last someone got shot in the face by a london gang two roads over from my house and no one in my area was even surprised. I couldn't walk out of my front door to the corner shop without seeing someone who is drunk or high (and I don't mean on weed) in the street whatever the time of day or night and I can pick out the dealers in my neighbourhood despite not taking drugs (it's all in the car). I understand perfectly well how the world works and can observe from my bedroom window dysfunctional families like Tia's everyday. And I still don't agree with you in the slightest.
It's disgusting you've connected a young girl's murder by a BRITISH family to eastern european immigration. She wasn't killed by an immigrant so the whole immigration debate isn't relevant. It's really distasteful to hijack a tragedy to try and ram your political agenda down people's throats.
Original post by blu tack
Tia is 12 though, not just born.
How is that relevant? The mum isn't twenty three, she is in her thirties now?
Original post by AlmostChicGeek
How is that relevant? The mum isn't twenty three, she is in her thirties now?
I assume it means the grandma was quite young when she became a grandma (i.e. 34 y.o.), since she is now only 46. In these days and age, I think at age of 34, most people have just finished their doctor degree, perhaps have 1 little child, not a grandchild :-p
Although I am not quite sure what does this age has to do with the case...
Original post by aptx4869
I assume it means the grandma was quite young when she became a grandma (i.e. 34 y.o.), since she is now only 46. In these days and age, I think at age of 34, most people have just finished their doctor degree, perhaps have 1 little child, not a grandchild :-p
Although I am not quite sure what does this age has to do with the case...
Although I am not quite sure what does this age has to do with the case...
Oh I see. I've confused myself - Mathis isn't my strong point!
it's just because being 46 and a gran is normal to me, but yeah that was only when I was born.Original post by AlmostChicGeek
Oh I see. I've confused myself - Mathis isn't my strong point! it's just because being 46 and a gran is normal to me, but yeah that was only when I was born.
it's just because being 46 and a gran is normal to me, but yeah that was only when I was born.Well, the thread is 5 pages already and started 2 days ago, it's easy to lose track
Original post by billydisco
You think 30% is significant? The fact you think that's bad clearly shows you have no idea what constitutes as "bad".....
And what about where you live? If 30% at school is the worst you experience I can't quite see you experiencing anything worse at home.....
This isnt a pure british people vs immigrants. This is eastern europeans vs everyone else. Like I already said, if you invite half of romania to live here, guess what our culture will turn like- romania. I think its safe to say most people dont want our culture to be like romania....
And what about where you live? If 30% at school is the worst you experience I can't quite see you experiencing anything worse at home.....
This isnt a pure british people vs immigrants. This is eastern europeans vs everyone else. Like I already said, if you invite half of romania to live here, guess what our culture will turn like- romania. I think its safe to say most people dont want our culture to be like romania....
Ok I do not live in one of the worst areas in the work ok - I'm not sayin that! All im saying is I do have experiences of immigrants in a day to day basic which contradicts your beliefs!
There aren't immigrants/eastern Europeans everywhere... - exactly! It's just an over fed statement that people use to put their blame on.
And no one is inviting "half of Romania" there are limits on immigration and although they may not be at the right quotas at the moment it is being to some limit restrictive so your half of Romania will never happen.
Some people are happy about immigration. They have managed to shape Britain to what we have and what we are proud to be part of today.
Things like the NHS, would have never worked had the immigrants not helped us in the 1950s - simple knowledge at GCSE!
This was posted from TheLightbulbKid - voicing an opinion and attempting to give advice
Original post by AlmostChicGeek
How is that relevant? The mum isn't twenty three, she is in her thirties now?
Because if your Gran was 46 when you were born, she'd be 58 when you were 12. So not the same as Tia, so your maths is wrong.
Original post by TheLightBulb
Ok I do not live in one of the worst areas in the work ok - I'm not sayin that! All im saying is I do have experiences of immigrants in a day to day basic which contradicts your beliefs!
There aren't immigrants/eastern Europeans everywhere... - exactly! It's just an over fed statement that people use to put their blame on.
And no one is inviting "half of Romania" there are limits on immigration and although they may not be at the right quotas at the moment it is being to some limit restrictive so your half of Romania will never happen.
Some people are happy about immigration. They have managed to shape Britain to what we have and what we are proud to be part of today.
Things like the NHS, would have never worked had the immigrants not helped us in the 1950s - simple knowledge at GCSE!
This was posted from TheLightbulbKid - voicing an opinion and attempting to give advice
There aren't immigrants/eastern Europeans everywhere... - exactly! It's just an over fed statement that people use to put their blame on.
And no one is inviting "half of Romania" there are limits on immigration and although they may not be at the right quotas at the moment it is being to some limit restrictive so your half of Romania will never happen.
Some people are happy about immigration. They have managed to shape Britain to what we have and what we are proud to be part of today.
Things like the NHS, would have never worked had the immigrants not helped us in the 1950s - simple knowledge at GCSE!
This was posted from TheLightbulbKid - voicing an opinion and attempting to give advice
Intentional homicide rate in UK (1.2 per 100,000 inhabitants) and in Romania (2.0 per 100,000) is almost comparable, although in Eastern Europe (6.4/100,000) is considerably higher than in Western Europe (1.0/100,000). Probably has to do with better law enforcement system in Western Europe.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
However, if one would analyze one murder case according to migration rate, it's a bit silly, methinks. Compared to the rest of the world, the UK is number 90th or so (if you sort the table in the link above according to intentional homicide rate).
Migration rate increases about 2% per year, BUT crime rate is in fact decreasing, just compare these 2 graphs:
Net migration (immigration minus emigration) in UK (1991 - 2008):
src: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Kingdom_since_1922#European_Union
Crimes (homicides and attempted murder) in UK (2002-2011):
src: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales
So, I would say that the premise immigration causing more crime in UK is invalid.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by madders94
My parents can't really afford us and we're on benefits, but we've been brought up very well, we've had what seems to be a happier childhood than many of my friends (whose parents were working), and to force us to leave our parents would be the worst thing anyone could do.
Where do you propose the kids go? Into care, where they'll require exactly the same amount of money for their care? Where they'll be unhappy, being shoved from foster home to foster home because it's ridiculously hard to adopt; the process is enough to put people off?
Surely it's better to work with the families and only take kids away if there is proven abuse, or they can say without a shadow of a doubt that the child would go straight to a family without being pushed around the care system and only if there is a definite need. Being born to a certain economic group doesn't damn someone for life, and it certainly doesn't warrant being taken away from your parents!
You do realize that the DM's target audience is exactly the type of person you just described - living in their nice comfy houses, perfect Middle Englanders, looking down on anyone they can look down on because they get off on the feeling of superiority.
In this case, the family was not ideal and unfortunately seems to have ended this way - but you can't say that every family on benefits is the same, just like it'd be stupid of me to say that every middle class family has a second home in France and buys everything from M&S and has perfect privately schooled darlings, because not everyone is the same and people don't define themselves by social class or how much money they have. I'm apparently from one of these "scum families" (although only because we're on benefits) and yet I wasn't killed or hurt by any family members and I'm going to university this year - isn't that proof that not everyone is the same?
Using Tia's death as the basis for a bigoted rant about people with less money than you is disgusting.
Where do you propose the kids go? Into care, where they'll require exactly the same amount of money for their care? Where they'll be unhappy, being shoved from foster home to foster home because it's ridiculously hard to adopt; the process is enough to put people off?
Surely it's better to work with the families and only take kids away if there is proven abuse, or they can say without a shadow of a doubt that the child would go straight to a family without being pushed around the care system and only if there is a definite need. Being born to a certain economic group doesn't damn someone for life, and it certainly doesn't warrant being taken away from your parents!
You do realize that the DM's target audience is exactly the type of person you just described - living in their nice comfy houses, perfect Middle Englanders, looking down on anyone they can look down on because they get off on the feeling of superiority.
In this case, the family was not ideal and unfortunately seems to have ended this way - but you can't say that every family on benefits is the same, just like it'd be stupid of me to say that every middle class family has a second home in France and buys everything from M&S and has perfect privately schooled darlings, because not everyone is the same and people don't define themselves by social class or how much money they have. I'm apparently from one of these "scum families" (although only because we're on benefits) and yet I wasn't killed or hurt by any family members and I'm going to university this year - isn't that proof that not everyone is the same?
Using Tia's death as the basis for a bigoted rant about people with less money than you is disgusting.
You have this amazing ability to write exactly what I want to say.
And I still can't rep you
Original post by aptx4869
Intentional homicide rate in UK (1.2 per 100,000 inhabitants) and in Romania (2.0 per 100,000) is almost comparable, although in Eastern Europe (6.4/100,000) is considerably higher than in Western Europe (1.0/100,000). Probably has to do with better law enforcement system in Western Europe.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
However, if one would analyze one murder case according to migration rate, it's a bit silly, methinks. Compared to the rest of the world, the UK is number 90th or so (if you sort the table in the link above according to intentional homicide rate).
Migration rate increases about 2% per year, BUT crime rate is in fact decreasing, just compare these 2 graphs:
Net migration (immigration minus emigration) in UK (1991 - 2008):
src: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Kingdom_since_1922#European_Union
Crimes (homicides and attempted murder) in UK (2002-2011):
src: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales
So, I would say that the premise immigration causing more crime in UK is invalid.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
However, if one would analyze one murder case according to migration rate, it's a bit silly, methinks. Compared to the rest of the world, the UK is number 90th or so (if you sort the table in the link above according to intentional homicide rate).
Migration rate increases about 2% per year, BUT crime rate is in fact decreasing, just compare these 2 graphs:
Net migration (immigration minus emigration) in UK (1991 - 2008):
src: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Kingdom_since_1922#European_Union
Crimes (homicides and attempted murder) in UK (2002-2011):
src: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales
So, I would say that the premise immigration causing more crime in UK is invalid.
Where did I mention crime?
Is it a crime to make an area feel like a ghetto? No- well that's whats happening in many areas. That wont be included in your pretty statistics.
Original post by TheLightBulb
Ok I do not live in one of the worst areas in the work ok - I'm not sayin that! All im saying is I do have experiences of immigrants in a day to day basic which contradicts your beliefs!
There aren't immigrants/eastern Europeans everywhere... - exactly! It's just an over fed statement that people use to put their blame on.
And no one is inviting "half of Romania" there are limits on immigration and although they may not be at the right quotas at the moment it is being to some limit restrictive so your half of Romania will never happen.
Some people are happy about immigration. They have managed to shape Britain to what we have and what we are proud to be part of today.
Things like the NHS, would have never worked had the immigrants not helped us in the 1950s - simple knowledge at GCSE!
This was posted from TheLightbulbKid - voicing an opinion and attempting to give advice
There aren't immigrants/eastern Europeans everywhere... - exactly! It's just an over fed statement that people use to put their blame on.
And no one is inviting "half of Romania" there are limits on immigration and although they may not be at the right quotas at the moment it is being to some limit restrictive so your half of Romania will never happen.
Some people are happy about immigration. They have managed to shape Britain to what we have and what we are proud to be part of today.
Things like the NHS, would have never worked had the immigrants not helped us in the 1950s - simple knowledge at GCSE!
This was posted from TheLightbulbKid - voicing an opinion and attempting to give advice
My only reply is that you need to go and look at areas where people live where half of their road are from eastern europe, where they dont have front gardens and drive ways to separate the misery from their neighbours.
You need to think about that before you tell us there are hardly any problems with eastern european immigration....
Original post by Wolfy^
So you say people are narrow minded that they cannot see or understand what is happening in the economically deprived neighbourhoods. I say you are the narrow minded one because you have just characterised a country (21 mil. people) by the stereotypes that the media feeds you and the 1 or 2 romanians you have met and found to be rude/idiots/whatever. Thing is, chances are those guys were actually idiots, but that has nothing to do with the country from which they come.
1 or 2 romanians.... how about having seen the place where I grew up turn from an ok town into a ghetto within the space of 8 years!
Original post by Wolfy^
You whine about Eastern European immigration that it will turn the UK (or England? didn't specify) into an Eastern European country. What do you exactly mean by that? The UK will fall into dictatorship? It will start switching to a language that uses more consonants? Or what?
How about every house having 7 kids with no parents working- because that's what we have. Oh and they have cars (somehow) but they don't work....
Original post by Wolfy^
The Eastern Europeans who actually do come here, do it to be able to benefit from an educational system that is of a higher quality than their own. The numbers of immigrants from EE that come here just to work is currently insignificant, as there are countries out there who are far more attractive for that at the moment.
Original post by Wolfy^
Eastern European countries are where they are now because of their history, their former and current political systems and their poor economy. Not because the people living there are murderers and thieves.
Which is why they should not be here because they cannot adapt culturally.
Original post by Wolfy^
Also, when you want to make a point and address immigration, use a more general term (as in Eastern Europe), rather than an exact country. Because that just makes it look personal and kills your argument.
I didn't want to tar countries like Poland because they seem to be perfectly fine, it's the romanians which are renowned for being the worst:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-413985/Eastern-European-immigrants-carry-tenth-crime.html
(DM was easier to find than another newspaper before you whine):
On cashpoint crime, which cost Britons more than £60million last year, the documents states: "80 to 85 per cent of this nationally can be attributed to Romanian organised crime groups."
Original post by Swag hatter
This whole thread is jack****, just picked this post at random to highlight it.
WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU ALL!?!?!
I agree her family situation seems like the norm for weird things to happen but a twelve year old girl has been murdered by someone she thought was close to her. So have a little respect.
Also, OP's ridicolous assumption that lefties live in 4 bed houses in cul-de-sacs, actually, lefties are more likely to be the people on council estates because labour support the benefits culture jack**** that conservatives doesnt.
Conservative is the primary part for the middle-upper class.
Labour is ****ed up.
But theres a time and a place, and this is NOT IT.
Have some respect.
WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU ALL!?!?!
I agree her family situation seems like the norm for weird things to happen but a twelve year old girl has been murdered by someone she thought was close to her. So have a little respect.
Also, OP's ridicolous assumption that lefties live in 4 bed houses in cul-de-sacs, actually, lefties are more likely to be the people on council estates because labour support the benefits culture jack**** that conservatives doesnt.
Conservative is the primary part for the middle-upper class.
Labour is ****ed up.
But theres a time and a place, and this is NOT IT.
Have some respect.
On TSR most users are well educated with a left-leaning. They are not reading the MoriningStar and working in an iron factory in sunderland. They are more likely to be the young Tony Blair and Nick Clegg- not John Prescott.
So yes, I would guestimate a decent proportion of the leftie "cant reduce benefits" supporters are living in 4-bedroomed cul-de-sac houses.
Original post by Riku
I'm really disgusted by how you can turn the tragic murder of a young girl into a platform to spout your own political agenda and enlighten us with your 'worldly' ways. Pretty sure everyone here, even those who haven't been in deprived areas, has the intellectual and emotional intelligence to understand that the world isn't all rosy and socio-economic conditions often have a tremendous impact.
How you conflate this specifically to her background is absurd. You can get people in council houses on benefits who are the nicest people you’ll ever meet, and you can get millionaires living in mansions or country houses that are absolute scum of the earth.
Have some respect, honestly.
How you conflate this specifically to her background is absurd. You can get people in council houses on benefits who are the nicest people you’ll ever meet, and you can get millionaires living in mansions or country houses that are absolute scum of the earth.
Have some respect, honestly.
Why the hell do you all keep mentioning council houses? Where have I even mentioned council houses?
Try and read my posts properly before you post such utter rubbish.
This thread basically says "all you leftie supporters- these are the people you defend and make the UK a worse place because of".
Stop benefits for people who have kids who cant afford them, put the residual kids into care and you'll soon see a lot less people having kids who cannot afford them! At the moment have a baby and you get a free flat! Why bother working 9 to 5 for money when you can have it for free??
Because you're making out they're scum because they're Eastern European immigrants, basically. Untrained or otherwise, such an idea's prejudice. Scum are scum regardless of how much they earn or where they live.
I agree with allowing benefits for those who currently cannot (e.g. a disability), but yes I disagree giving them to those who choose not to contribute in any shape or form, which is different. However, to then assume that all those on benefits are causing such familial tragedies is both far-fetched and a little facetious. Once again the insinuation is immigrant=scum.
You can't possibly know the morality and culture of an entire country based only off your personal experience of immigration and media bias. You can't really talk about someone until you've walked in their shoes for a year.
I can think of plenty more and better reasons why the UK is suffering than this.
Really I was having a go at you for being immature and pointing the finger at your perceived political opponents to say 'I told you so' when fact is a twelve-year old girl is dead because of this. You're using a tragic loss and a family's pain and suffering to assume political power and superiority for yourself. Try and be a bit more sensitive, please.
I agree with allowing benefits for those who currently cannot (e.g. a disability), but yes I disagree giving them to those who choose not to contribute in any shape or form, which is different. However, to then assume that all those on benefits are causing such familial tragedies is both far-fetched and a little facetious. Once again the insinuation is immigrant=scum.
You can't possibly know the morality and culture of an entire country based only off your personal experience of immigration and media bias. You can't really talk about someone until you've walked in their shoes for a year.
I can think of plenty more and better reasons why the UK is suffering than this.
Really I was having a go at you for being immature and pointing the finger at your perceived political opponents to say 'I told you so' when fact is a twelve-year old girl is dead because of this. You're using a tragic loss and a family's pain and suffering to assume political power and superiority for yourself. Try and be a bit more sensitive, please.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by billydisco
1 or 2 romanians.... how about having seen the place where I grew up turn from an ok town into a ghetto within the space of 8 years!
How about every house having 7 kids with no parents working- because that's what we have. Oh and they have cars (somehow) but they don't work....
How about every house having 7 kids with no parents working- because that's what we have. Oh and they have cars (somehow) but they don't work....
See that's funny because I live in a neighbourhood where people don't have drives or gardens to separate us all and where we have houses with 7 kids and no parents working. We also have quite a large Eastern European community round here (mainly Polish, we've got 3 polish deli type shops within 2 minutes of my house and it's normal to hear people speaking other languages out and about but we've got people from everywhere in Eastern Europe) but the people who don't work and have loads of kids, drink lots and take drugs and act in an anti social manner in the public aren't the Eastern Europeans!
Sorry to ruin your theory but round here it's English people who cause the problems; 2nd or 3rd generation in a family where no one works and it's acceptable to drink lots and do drugs and generally behave in an unacceptable manner. I've NEVER seen an Eastern European person lying drunk/high in the street or screaming at the top of their lungs at their partner like some of the English people round here do regularly.
I hate to break it to you but your own experience doesn't invalidate everyone else's input and make you right. Everyone here has different experiences and different views you're not the chosen one who knows best because in ONE town in the WHOLE OF THE UK where you happen to live immigration is an issue (in your eyes).
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