Shooting in Texas
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Original post by TimHuak
A&M University in Texas
They have universities in Texas? I thought they just had bible camps?
Original post by TGTX
I'm all for opposing tyranny, but in peacetime, with so many households having guns, this results in a high incidence of gun crime.
Perhaps they should have civilian armouries, where people can store and practice with their firearms. These armouries will not be under government control, but rather regulated by community councils who are elected from the members of the community, by the members of the community and who must be of outstandingly good moral character. Members aren't allowed to remove firearms from the armoury.
Won't this be a better way to prevent tyranny and gun crime at the same time? If there's the threat of a dictator or foreign enemy, it would be very easy for the people to organize a resistance, while at the same time preventing psychos from gunning innocent people down in the street all the time.
Perhaps they should have civilian armouries, where people can store and practice with their firearms. These armouries will not be under government control, but rather regulated by community councils who are elected from the members of the community, by the members of the community and who must be of outstandingly good moral character. Members aren't allowed to remove firearms from the armoury.
Won't this be a better way to prevent tyranny and gun crime at the same time? If there's the threat of a dictator or foreign enemy, it would be very easy for the people to organize a resistance, while at the same time preventing psychos from gunning innocent people down in the street all the time.
In America today people use guns to defend themselves against criminals.
The civillian armouries idea sounds like a horrible idea to me and Americans would never go for that
Original post by Miracle Day
It's disgusting how in your country you can walk into a shop and buy an AK47 and 1k rounds of ammo.
The AK47s people buy in America are semi automatics. They arent much different to other rifles you can get. The difference is almost entirely aesthetic. They look "scary" and so people make a bigger deal out of them. Also alot of the AK47s on the market are poorer quality when you look at equally priced rifles.
Peopel buy ammo in bulk to save money. It is common.
You can buy modified AK47 styled rifles here in the UK.
Original post by Aaron_xyz
You think some pistols and semi-automatic rifles will defend someone from a fully-fledged military or foreign invasion? If the US government wanted you dead, you honestly think they would just send in two small patrol units?
You can argue about this all you want and talk about all sorts of hypothetical situations but it still gives people the opportunity to defend themselves. Rather than being completely defenseless, they do have some way of defending themselves.
If you look at recent wars and recent conflicts you will find most of it has been asymetric.
Original post by TimHuak
In America today people use guns to defend themselves against criminals.
The civillian armouries idea sounds like a horrible idea to me and Americans would never go for that.
The civillian armouries idea sounds like a horrible idea to me and Americans would never go for that.
How do people do that? Please do elaborate. Do most people in America walk around the street with an automatic rifle slung over their shoulder and a sidearm on their hip? Is that what's hot nowadays?
Despite everything you've said about people using guns to "defend themselves against criminals", every few weeks there's news that yet another psycho has killed several people and injured dozens more in a shooting. News articles reporting how a family managed to repel a home invasion or how heroic citizens armed to the teeth managed to prevent a bank robbery seem to be few and far in between. When the bullets start flying, everyone still takes cover and calls 911 - I'd hardly call that defending themselves.
Just look at the title of this thread - shooting in Texas. A guy who received a bloody eviction notice opened fire on police officers, killing three people. If what you're saying is right, and unregulated ownership of guns is crucial to civilian self-defence, why didn't these unfortunate victims defend themselves?
And please explain why the idea sounds horrible, instead of just saying it.
Either way, I'm done debating this. If Americans feel that having guns stored in every home is fine, then that's alright with me. Their fellow countrymen will just have to accept the consequences - becoming innocent victims in gun crime from time to time.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by TGTX
The americans i stayed with over the holidays would literally carry concealed firearms around with them. So, i guess that is sort of what it is like yes! And they all think its a great thing.
Original post by nexttime
The americans i stayed with over the holidays would literally carry concealed firearms around with them. So, i guess that is sort of what it is like yes! And they all think its a great thing.
That's crazy - just imagine this:
Son: Come on, Dad, I'm late for school!
Dad: Alright, alright, I'm coming. Oh, just one moment.
Slings M16 rifle over shoulder.
Holsters M9 pistol.
Packs rifle and pistol magazines into briefcase.
Dad: Okay, come on. Do you have it with you?
Son: Rolls eyes. Yes, Dad. Pulls revolver out of schoolbag.
Dad: Good boy! Now, keep it with you at all times, just in case a psycho jumps out and fire at you with his machine gun at school. Remember to aim for his head. If you get a headshot, I'll buy you that new shotgun you've always liked for your next birthday, when you turn 9.
Son: Gee, thanks Dad! You rock!
That sounds fun.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by TGTX
How do people do that? Please do elaborate. Do most people in America walk around the street with an automatic rifle slung over their shoulder and a sidearm on their hip? Is that what's hot nowadays?
Despite everything you've said about people using guns to "defend themselves against criminals", every few weeks there's news that yet another psycho has killed several people and injured dozens more in a shooting. News articles reporting how a family managed to repel a home invasion or how heroic citizens armed to the teeth managed to prevent a bank robbery seem to be few and far in between. When the bullets start flying, everyone still takes cover and calls 911 - I'd hardly call that defending themselves.
Just look at the title of this thread - shooting in Texas. A guy who received a bloody eviction notice opened fire on police officers, killing three people. If what you're saying is right, and unregulated ownership of guns is crucial to civilian self-defence, why didn't these unfortunate victims defend themselves?
And please explain why the idea sounds horrible, instead of just saying it.
Either way, I'm done debating this. If Americans feel that having guns stored in every home is fine, then that's alright with me. Their fellow countrymen will just have to accept the consequences - becoming innocent victims in gun crime from time to time.
Despite everything you've said about people using guns to "defend themselves against criminals", every few weeks there's news that yet another psycho has killed several people and injured dozens more in a shooting. News articles reporting how a family managed to repel a home invasion or how heroic citizens armed to the teeth managed to prevent a bank robbery seem to be few and far in between. When the bullets start flying, everyone still takes cover and calls 911 - I'd hardly call that defending themselves.
Just look at the title of this thread - shooting in Texas. A guy who received a bloody eviction notice opened fire on police officers, killing three people. If what you're saying is right, and unregulated ownership of guns is crucial to civilian self-defence, why didn't these unfortunate victims defend themselves?
And please explain why the idea sounds horrible, instead of just saying it.
Either way, I'm done debating this. If Americans feel that having guns stored in every home is fine, then that's alright with me. Their fellow countrymen will just have to accept the consequences - becoming innocent victims in gun crime from time to time.
Most states allow conceal carry. A majority of people dont carry but the ones who do carry small pistols. People also keep guns in their homes
Most crimes are stopped by just showing someone you have a gun or by firing a warning shot.
The news will always report a story where a gun is used for bad over where a gun is used for good. Most of the time when a gun is used for good it is not even reported to the police.
Criminologists who have studied this (like gary kleck) have concluded that guns are used for good alot more than they are for bad. Estimates can be in the millions (per year).
America does not have "unregulated gun ownership".
Original post by TimHuak
Most crimes are stopped by just showing someone you have a gun or by firing a warning shot.
The news will always report a story where a gun is used for bad over where a gun is used for good. Most of the time when a gun is used for good it is not even reported to the police.
Criminologists who have studied this (like gary kleck) have concluded that guns are used for good alot more than they are for bad. Estimates can be in the millions (per year).
America does not have "unregulated gun ownership".
Most crimes are stopped by just showing someone you have a gun or by firing a warning shot.
The news will always report a story where a gun is used for bad over where a gun is used for good. Most of the time when a gun is used for good it is not even reported to the police.
Criminologists who have studied this (like gary kleck) have concluded that guns are used for good alot more than they are for bad. Estimates can be in the millions (per year).
America does not have "unregulated gun ownership".
I think that the criminal will shoot back if you fire a "warning shot".
There'll be a lot of people boasting about "using their guns for good" if it were true. Trust me, if there were people intervening in bank robberies or burglaries, we'd have heard of it.
What exactly is your source for these millions of annual cases where guns are used for good? Excepting, of course, the use of firearms by armed forces or police officers. We're talking about civilian ownership here.
How exactly is gun ownership regulated in America? Do you need to report a purchase to a regulating agency? Do you need an official permit issued by a regulating agency to purchase firearms or ammunition? Regulated my ass - I've seen civilians firing a goddamn minigun in their backyard and posting the video onto YouTube.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by TGTX
I think that the criminal will shoot back if you fire a "warning shot".
There'll be a lot of people boasting about "using their guns for good" if it were true. Trust me, if there were people intervening in bank robberies or burglaries, we'd have heard of it.
What exactly is your source for these millions of annual cases where guns are used for good? Excepting, of course, the use of firearms by armed forces or police officers. We're talking about civilian ownership here.
How exactly is gun ownership regulated in America? Do you need to report a purchase to a regulating agency? Do you need an official permit issued by a regulating agency to purchase firearms or ammunition? Regulated my ass - I've seen civilians firing a goddamn minigun in their backyard and posting the video onto YouTube.
There'll be a lot of people boasting about "using their guns for good" if it were true. Trust me, if there were people intervening in bank robberies or burglaries, we'd have heard of it.
What exactly is your source for these millions of annual cases where guns are used for good? Excepting, of course, the use of firearms by armed forces or police officers. We're talking about civilian ownership here.
How exactly is gun ownership regulated in America? Do you need to report a purchase to a regulating agency? Do you need an official permit issued by a regulating agency to purchase firearms or ammunition? Regulated my ass - I've seen civilians firing a goddamn minigun in their backyard and posting the video onto YouTube.
Criminologist Gary Kleck produced research on civillian gun use. That is where I am getting most of this from.
From surveys done on criminals in prison they found out the thing they are most scared of is armed civillians. They arent as afraid of the police. Not every criminal is armed with a gun and if they know someone has a gun (even if they themselves are armed) they do not want to get involved. The research on civillian gun use found that something like 98% of the time the criminal is not shot.
The estimates from the 90s were between 850,000 to 2,500,000 incidents of guns used in self defence every year. Gark Kleck revised these figures fairly recently aswell and came to similar conclusions although I forget what his revised figures were.
Alot of people do not report these incidents where they have used their gun in self defence to the police. That is one of the difficulties in producing research on guns used in self defence.
Gun ownership is regulated on the federal level aswell as the state level and sometimes on an even more local level. There are less regulations compared to other places but it is definitely not "unregulated".
Original post by TimHuak
Gun ownership is regulated on the federal level aswell as the state level and sometimes on an even more local level. There are less regulations compared to other places but it is definitely not "unregulated".
Gun ownership is regulated on the federal level aswell as the state level and sometimes on an even more local level. There are less regulations compared to other places but it is definitely not "unregulated".
How exactly is it regulated?
Original post by TGTX
How exactly is it regulated?
On the federal level
National Firearms Act 1934
Federal Firearms Act 1938
Gun Control Act 1968
Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act 1986
Crime Control Act 1990
Brady Bill 1994
I might have missed something small there not sure. Then there are state laws and even more local laws.
Original post by TimHuak
On the federal level
National Firearms Act 1934
Federal Firearms Act 1938
Gun Control Act 1968
Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act 1986
Crime Control Act 1990
Brady Bill 1994
I might have missed something small there not sure. Then there are state laws and even more local laws.
National Firearms Act 1934
Federal Firearms Act 1938
Gun Control Act 1968
Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act 1986
Crime Control Act 1990
Brady Bill 1994
I might have missed something small there not sure. Then there are state laws and even more local laws.
Those laws are the absolute minimum. I mean, for god's sake, the Brady Bill 1994 is there so that ex-convicts will have marginally more difficulty in getting their hands on automatic weapons, and the Crime Control Act 1990 ensures that no firearms are brought into schools. T
here isn't an agency that carefully examines the character, criminal record, psych record, etc, of every individual who wants to purchase and store a firearm, unlike in the UK where strict vetting procedures are in place.
Original post by TGTX
Those laws are the absolute minimum. I mean, for god's sake, the Brady Bill 1994 is there so that ex-convicts will have marginally more difficulty in getting their hands on automatic weapons, and the Crime Control Act 1990 ensures that no firearms are brought into schools. T
here isn't an agency that carefully examines the character, criminal record, psych record, etc, of every individual who wants to purchase and store a firearm, unlike in the UK where strict vetting procedures are in place.
here isn't an agency that carefully examines the character, criminal record, psych record, etc, of every individual who wants to purchase and store a firearm, unlike in the UK where strict vetting procedures are in place.
The point is guns are not "unregulated" in the USA as you said previously.
Original post by kopite493
a gun is a tool a tool is not inheritably bad or good but defined by the people who use them.
A gun is a tool which cannot be overcome unless a human has another gun.
A knife can be overcome if you have any obstacle (such as a pool cue) to hit the attacker.
My point? If somebody has a gun, unless you were expecting them you are a goner....
Unless Americans are going to have their handguns by their side in the cinema, they arent going to stop somebody shooting them- so it'd be easier if nobody had a gun, than one person has one walking into the cinema.
Original post by Miracle Day
If guns were ilegal to start with, chances are she wouldn't have to defend herself from guns because they'd be so difficult for criminals to get.
What if there were no guns involved? It would have been 3 male teens vs 1 eleven year old female. How successful do you think she would have been defending herself in that scenario? Admit it. The rifle saved her.
Original post by Miracle Day
It's disgusting how in your country you can walk into a shop and buy an AK47 and 1k rounds of ammo.
It's disgusting how in your country you can walk into a shop and buy an AK47 and 1k rounds of ammo.
Nothing disgusting about it. Maybe to a coward like you.
Original post by Miracle Day
And ofcourse? Shot or hand over some of my positions? At the cost of saving thousands of lives per year from shooting? Yep!
And ofcourse? Shot or hand over some of my positions? At the cost of saving thousands of lives per year from shooting? Yep!
But that's wrong. Gun laws don't reduce gun crime, as the statistics show, but that doesn't matter to your ilk, because all you have to rely on are appeals to emotion.
Original post by Miracle Day
Perhaps if it was your kids shot in that cinema you'd be putting forth a different argument
Perhaps if it was your kids shot in that cinema you'd be putting forth a different argument
Nope.
Original post by nexttime
Did you actually watch the video? a) the burglars ran before they even saw the gun b) the burglars themselves had a gun - that girl could have got herself killed for the sake of a simple burglary c) the burglars were breaking in to steal guns and d) the police were around the corner anyway - they could have been there in literally seconds.
That video is an excellent argument as to why banning guns is a good thing.
That video is an excellent argument as to why banning guns is a good thing.
Well here's some more videos for ya.
In America we shoot criminal scum. In your spineless nation you get ARRESTED for trying to DEFEND yourself against criminals. And wimps like you and your ilk enable the government to pass laws like that. Maybe that's why you guys have the highest violent crime rate in the industrialized world. What happened to your nation? You guys used to be cool.
This is how we deal with criminal scum in MURKA. Deal with it.
:Most of the people in these videos are elderly or female and they were being attacked by multiple aggressors. How else would these people defend themselves if not for guns? Could a 70 year old man realistically defend himself against multiple young thugs, even if he/she were well trained in martial arts? I doubt it.
Original post by nexttime
The americans i stayed with over the holidays would literally carry concealed firearms around with them. So, i guess that is sort of what it is like yes! And they all think its a great thing.
Implying carrying around guns isn't completely bad4ss.
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