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Rape - why, and Porn.

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Reply 20
Avatar for Howbeit
Howbeit
19
Original post by Norton1
Not neccessarily, I think that what is normal for one person is abnormal for another. It's an incredibly difficult area to find a bright line boundary in. We allow people to consent to some actual bodily harms such as smoking, why not a wee fishook through the scrotum? While that is a little bit facetious why shouldn't someone be allowed to consent to being beaten with nettles? It's not my thing, but it is somone's. It's like if someone tried to suck my feet. They'd wake up on a drip. But no one is arguing that should be illegal.


I don't think it should be ruled as illegal. People should be allowed to do as they want if they're consenting - I would query their mindset though... I suppose some people are just into that kind of thing.
Interestingly, there have been a number of countries in which the number of rape charges per year have fallen after the pornographic material was made legal and available.

To the other point, I think that generally that the hardness of some porn films are solely for the purpose of increasing sexual pleasure of both parties or making it seem as though the pleasure has increased to the observers. It is pretty obvious that the faster you copulate the greater the sense of pleasure so I don't think that couples copulating at crazy speeds should be considered "rapey".

Films which include spanking and chaining (generally BDSM stuff) seems to be for both genders. Sometimes the men are chained up sometimes the women, provided its consensual then people can do whatever weird things they want with each other.

All these fetishes are the result of the parts of our brain which control and regulate sexual urge and pleasure being near or crossing over other ones. Sometimes you can end up being aroused by something that would never arouse someone else (e.g. feet) just because you are wired a bit differently. Provided that in the pornography people are not beating or chaining each other to the point where they are bleeding or crying in agony then its best left to the actors and the minority of viewers who enjoy it.
Rape existed before porn, so I doubt porn has anything to do with it.
Reply 23
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AFC1993
I knew a guy who knew a guy who raped a girl that he knew whilst watching some hardcore German porn.
Reply 24
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PurpleEyes
Original post by Classical Liberal
If this was even remotely true, then with the advent of free porn online we should have seen the a HUGEEEEE increase in the amount of rape compared to say the 1990's when porn was much harder to access.

Have we seen an increase in rape?

No.

**** all has happened.

The amazing thing about porn, is just how much there is nowadays, and how little effect it has actually had.


How can YOU say for certain that there hasn't been an increase in rape? Rape is probably THE crime that is most likely to go unreported, not to mention the crime with the lowest prosecution rape. I'm not saying that every person who watches hardcore pornography is going to go out and rape someone, I'm just saying that the way women are depicted in these films is in some cases horrendous and definitely conveys the idea that women are subservient objects and that rough sex is something they should enjoy, and if they don't, who cares?

And as for the 'effect' of pornography - well, you've pretty much answered your own question. "Just how much there is nowadays" - exactly! There must be hundreds of new videos uploaded onto the internet every day. Where do all these so-called actors come from? Why is there such an appetite for endless bodies that all look exactly the same - women and men with sexual organs but no faces, no personality, nothing to say to one another? It's because hardcore pornography displays this as the norm. It's an endless, vicious cycle, really. Once all this stops satisfying us, where will porn tell us to go? How much more 'hardcore' can it actually get? It's both a worrying and disgusting thought.

I'm not saying pornography itself is a bad thing. But I do believe that mainstream pornography has gone too far.
Original post by RobertWhite
I don't think it should be ruled as illegal. People should be allowed to do as they want if they're consenting - I would query their mindset though... I suppose some people are just into that kind of thing.


Well this is one of the perennial issues in the law, sometimes referred to as the 'Hart-Devlin' debate. It predates either of those two jurists by centuries but it was particularly topical in the late 1950s early 1960s with the Wolfenden report and eventual decriminalization of homosexuality. If you're interested then look for a slim book called 'Law, Liberty and Morality' by Hart. If you do Jurisprudence on your law course then no doubt you will come across it then. It's still a much-discussed issue, with some leading philosophers on both sides still (Finnis for example is very much in favour of criminalizing certain conduct on purely moral grounds).

It's quite topical today as well because of the overlap with medico-ethical issues. After all if you say that people should be allowed to do as they want if they consent, then it follows that people should be allowed to consent to be murdered, and that the Tony Nicklinson case was wrongly decided. If you don't think that then you would need to evaluate where you draw the line and how to justify the position of the line. For example, should someone be able to consent to having both legs hacked off if they want?
I'm intimate with someone who actually likes it rough. So it's not just a guy thing. I enjoy it too, mind you.
She's obv fine with it, I generally check if she's okay if it ever seems rough anyway just in case.
There is a clear line between that and rape, generally consent and whether she is okay with it.
Original post by PurpleEyes
How can YOU say for certain that there hasn't been an increase in rape? Rape is probably THE crime that is most likely to go unreported, not to mention the crime with the lowest prosecution rape.


Yeah, but if you assume lets say 70% of rape goes unreported. Then an increase in rape, will still lead to an increase in the amount of reported rape.

I'm not saying that every person who watches hardcore pornography is going to go out and rape someone, I'm just saying that the way women are depicted in these films is in some cases horrendous and definitely conveys the idea that women are subservient objects and that rough sex is something they should enjoy, and if they don't, who cares?


I think you are completely wrong.

The women is rarely saying "Stop" or "You are hurting me".

She is usually saying "**** me harder" or "Don't stop, keep ****ing me"
Reply 28
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PurpleEyes
Original post by Classical Liberal
I think you are completely wrong.

The women is rarely saying "Stop" or "You are hurting me".

She is usually saying "**** me harder" or "Don't stop, keep ****ing me"


...Beeecause it is scripted and she is getting paid to say those words?
Reply 29
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HDBrowne
I'm not even going to bother reading any comments because I fear of seeing a comment saying there are reasons behind rape, WHICH there are none.

giving a reason for rape is giving excuses for rape.

Rape is rape no reasons no excuses and people who rape disgust me.
Reply 30
Avatar for cyfer
cyfer
13
Power and control is certainly enjoyable but the kind of stuff I see in certain types of porn such as strangling and serious violence is just disgusting, I'm not aroused by it at all.

I guess that almost-instinctive feeling I have of euphoria in a bully-esque situation of control over a weaker person is amazing, but it is quickly transcended by a feeling of revulsion at this very reaction and therefore suppression of it.
Reply 31
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wilson075
Original post by ScouseEmma28
I'm just curious really to hear from the guys point of view, in that, criminal psychologists suggest that rape is performed to induce a feeling of power and control for the rapist. Do you believe it is about this?


Undoubtedly. It is not unheard of for heterosexual men to commit "male rape". Similarly, it is not the case that all rapists choose their victim. Some rapists would not even be able to identify their victim in circumstances where, for example, the rape took place in a dark alley way or extremely quickly, etc.

Secondly, take a hardcore porn movie, for example, some of the scenes (I've seen personally), where the woman is in a very subservient and submissive position, receiving what could be perceived as abusive hard penetrative sex. Im sure you know what i mean, lol. My boyfriend has seen a lot of harcore porn, and he does at times, re-enact scenes from these movies, in that he likes to literally be rough, to the point where it hurts/holds my neck etc. Now, I consent this, and he doesn't hurt me to the point I want him to stop, but I do wonder if these hardcore porno's depict very rough penetrative sex (where the woman facially demonstratively shows pain; i know she is acting) to be a massive turn on/normal?


Define normal. It certainly isn't rape if you consent to the quality and nature of the act.
Original post by PurpleEyes
...Beeecause it is scripted and she is getting paid to say those words?


You missed the whole point.

In hardcore porn the women is depicted as enjoying it, that's a huge factor.
If the women was telling you to stop and it was clear it was hurting it would not be enjoyable to watch or take part in.
I do it myself on occasion and the second she seems hurt the idea I'm hurting someone completely overrides any pleasure and I stop immediately.
Obviously in rapists this doesn't happen.

I can see a clear difference between rape and hardcore porn.
(edited 11 years ago)
Not all porn is hardcore, for instance I prefer brazillian fart porn.
Original post by PurpleEyes
...Beeecause it is scripted and she is getting paid to say those words?


The point is that the fantasy revolves around submission, not nonconsent. People who don't really get BDSM love to conflate the two. Someone who fantasises about submission is generally speaking not likely to also fantastise about rape; because willingly doing what the dom(me) says is an integral part of the fantasy. A woman saying no and screaming to stop would go against this.

The only incidence where I could see the two being crossed are those ones where the rape victim starts to enjoy the attack. That said, most of those seem to be written from the victim's pov (based on what I've seen on literotica), and target heterosexual women. :holmes:
Original post by PurpleEyes
...Beeecause it is scripted and she is getting paid to say those words?


Yeah. But the point is that it looks like she is enjoying it. The viewer wants to see her enjoying getting pounded.
Reply 36
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MsAaliyah
Porn doesn't usaully encourage rape it usually encourages fapping..
Reply 37
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PurpleEyes
Original post by So Instinct
You missed the whole point.

In hardcore porn the women is depicted as enjoying it, that's a huge factor.
If the women was telling you to stop and it was clear it was hurting it would not be enjoyable to watch or take part in.
I do it myself on occasion and the second she seems hurt the idea I'm hurting someone completely overrides any pleasure and I stop immediately.
Obviously in rapists this doesn't happen.

I can see a clear difference between rape and hardcore porn.


Noooo, that is my point! People see women enjoying rough sex in porn, making (some) think that women enjoy the same thing in real life. Of course there's a difference between rape and hardcore porn. But the idea that women should 'take it' is apparent in both, is it not?

Original post by medbh4805
The point is that the fantasy revolves around submission, not nonconsent. People who don't really get BDSM love to conflate the two. Someone who fantasises about submission is generally speaking not likely to also fantastise about rape; because willingly doing what the dom(me) says is an integral part of the fantasy. A woman saying no and screaming to stop would go against this.

The only incidence where I could see the two being crossed are those ones where the rape victim starts to enjoy the attack. That said, most of those seem to be written from the victim's pov (based on what I've seen on literotica), and target heterosexual women. :holmes:


I'm not talking about BDSM - that's pain for a purpose, all strictly controlled, the sub likes it, so does the dom. I'm talking about those 5min long clips in which the man comes in, grabs the woman, er, comes, and then leaves. That is not real sex. That gives the impression that all it takes for a woman to enjoy sex is a bit of mad thrusting. In some cases, this is true, but in most it's really not. This type of pornography conveys that the needs of the man are greater than the needs of the woman. He is always dominant, she just does whatever he wants. This does not cause men to rape (as most can tell the difference between fantasy and reality), but it certainly contributes to the attitude that causes rape.
Would be interesting if like at the end of the 'weirder scale' of porn videos if they just put a tag up like "seek help, you might be crazy if you enjoy this", if i ever find myself near that part of the internet I leave it quickly, it's not very nice.
Original post by PurpleEyes
Noooo, that is my point! People see women enjoying rough sex in porn, making (some) think that women enjoy the same thing in real life. Of course there's a difference between rape and hardcore porn. But the idea that women should 'take it' is apparent in both, is it not?



But some women do enjoy it?
Each having their own limit and personal preference e.g. hair pulling, name calling etc.

If the women I'm intimate with atm didn't like it I wouldn't do it even though I enjoy it. It's really that simple, I don't expect her to simply take it, if we both agree then sure. Not to mention she has turns to, so it works both ways.
It gets boring being dominant all the time. I'm generally sensitive/caring though, so you can't my actions to males who don't have those qualities.

I would say it's generally not apparent in Hardcore porn. In hardcore porn there is nothing to suggest the women can't simply turn around and say stop or go slower because the male never denies her that. The women never does it due to script, but that doesn't then mean she cant but I can understand why this would somewhat obscure it.
In rape yes it's apparent because she would clearly have no option as the male would ignore her resists and pleading.

Although I can actually see where your coming from and it's sort of dependent on how you look at it and your pre mindset going into it. If you like the idea of rape then watching HC Porn will give you some pleasure because in your mindset she cannot say no. Also an amateur mindset will be similar I think since women control sexual boundries/actions etc and people who aren't sexually experienced probably won't know this, when men mature a bit then sex generally becomes a game of how good can I make her feel to boost my own self confidence while also getting pleasure from this.

I had to actually stop and think about that lol, it's not as obvious as it seems from the start. It's also difficult to explain.

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