Germany or UK?

What is better for a language degree (Chinese): Germany or UK?
I've an offer from Notts but I have the possibility to study at a German Uni (dunno yet at which coz the Application proc. starts in June). I guess I won't make it into Heidelberg but Bochum (anyone heard of that?) is very likely...
I think about going to China or USA for my Grad. what would be better in such a situation?

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Reply 1

Inquisitive

I would guess Notts would be better based upon overall reputation and the diversity there where you can practise or get help from native speakers.

Reply 2

stockholm

Without a doubt, the UK!!

OK, Chinese courses in Germany I'm sure don't suffer from the overcrowding that more regular subjects do (e.g. English)...but I really think UK universities in general offer a better student life and immeasurably better/easier organisation, especially a uni city like Nottingham. (You also won't find a campus like that in Germany!)

I found it different on so many levels - paperwork (nightmare in G. with no centralisation), sense of community (much closer in UK with majority living away from home for the first time, everyone seems to break from their school life and begin together new), student union (societies etc barely noticeable, and certainly far fewer, where I was in G- even with a cap on the numbers allowed in sport clubs!), resources shared between so many more in G, and just general openness of people; where I was in G, so many students just seemed content to keep their friendship groups from school, as they stayed in their home city to study.

I hope that doesn't offend any Germans; this was just my experience and maybe I was unlucky! Having said that, when I returned to the UK, others who had been away (not just to German unis) all expressed how much better facilities etc were for us in UK, and how much simpler life was.

Having studied in both countries, I still would not have traded in my student debt from UK (massive) to do my complete degree for free in Germany. I definitely got my money's worth!

Reply 3

Jammertal

OK, what stockholm has said, is generally sad but true. Lectures, etc. at German unis are normlly overcrowded- but I'm not sure if this applies to a rather exotic course like Chinese.
Student life normally isn't organised by student unions, but in big cities or uni cities you'd find other possibilities- not in v small with new universities. Organisation: debatable and I think that it varies a lot.
Plus, Nottingham is very respected for languages, isn't it?

On the other hand: The thing with maintaining friendships with people from schools might apply to some universities. However, I'm currently studying for the Abitur and from my year group there won't study more than 2 or 3 at the same university. So there'll be loads of people like you who want to make new friends. This would definitely not be a problem.
You're living in the UK atm? In that case studying abroad would be a good idea. It'd be a challenge, but if you succeed it'd not only be a wonderful experience for yurself, but also boost your career options.

I'd say it depends on what you are looking for and who you are: If you are a self- starter and don't mind if everything isn't perfectly organised (even if this isn't true in all cases), studying in Germany can be a good idea.
If you feel that the new part of your life, going to university, is enough change at once, I'd say that you should rather stay in the UK.

Getting info about German unis you're interested in should help as compiling a list with pros and cons will.
I haven't studied a uni myself though, thus my opinion relies on the experiences of friends, etc. If you want first hand experiences, you may post this as well in the German Soc thread.

China.

tangsiuje

China.

Siu jeh, please read; it's either Germany or the UK. :tongue:

Reply 6

paddy

Inquisitive

Siu jeh, please read; it's either Germany or the UK. :tongue:

Methinks she's making the 'if you want to study a language, then go to that country' point.

Reply 7

Inquisitive

paddy357

Methinks she's making the 'if you want to study a language, then go to that country' point.

My above post was half-serious as you could see by the emoticon.

Anyway, it should be blindingly obvious that studying and living in the native country of the language to be mastered is the best option.

Reply 8

paddy

Inquisitive

Noooooo, we've already had this discussion and no good came of it.
Anyway most people here want to study two languages at uni, so that obviously wouldn't work.

Reply 9

Inquisitive

paddy357

Noooooo, we've already had this discussion and no good came of it.
Anyway most people here want to study two languages at uni, so that obviously wouldn't work.

I guess the only way to go about this is to live in both places, but that may not be practicable considering finances, convenience, academic semesters and so on.

Ultimately, for beneficial reasons, learning a number of languages at the same time does not detract living in another country (or a few countries) as the best option - just that for practical reasons, it might require a lot of sacrifice and so not preferred.

Reply 10

kashiya

Jammertal

In that case studying abroad would be a good idea. It'd be a challenge, but if you succeed it'd not only be a wonderful experience for yurself, but also boost your career options.

Both Germany and UK is for me studying abroad :smile:

I have thought about China, but those Unis where lectures are in English are too expensive and I don't know a word in Chinese, so they wont let me in in a normal course taught in Chinese. But I intend to go there for 1 year during my Undergrads.

I have already this pro and cotra list in my head, but still it doesn't help much...

The good thing about Germany is that I don't have this debt and I have money for travelling (which is rather good if I want to visit China more often than once). I'll also have a degree from Germany, which will be a proof that I know German really good and after my Undergrads I can still go to UK. I guess also that there is not much difference in the language teaching.

But than: A degree from UK will be better than a degree form Germany. The social life at Notts is for sure better. With a degree from UK I might get easier into a Uni in USA/China...

I really dunno what to do... :frown:

Reply 11

Inquisitive

Actually, if you could, I'd recommend the States - I've heard good things about their languages degree courses from friends. It's probably to do with sufficient resources and the diverse linguistic staff available there. However, the States teaches normally in traditional Chinese characters whereas the UK teaches in simplified Chinese characters as the norm, which may be something of consideration.

As for China, there are Foreign Languages universities in Beijing in addition to those offered by Beijing and Tsinghua Universities (the Oxbridge of China) which teach many non-natives in English. Plus, the courses there are geared more to a standardised level - towards a recognised test of 'HSK' which is a proficiency test for Chinese, like the IELTS for English.

Reply 12

paddy

Inquisitive

I would have loved to apply for US unis, but they're SO expensive :eek:

Reply 13

kashiya

Hm.. I've thought about the states, but I would have to write the SAT, so I thought it will be beter to leave USA for the (post)grads.

Reply 14

Piers-

Right then,

If your goal is to learn Chinese then I don't think Nottingham is the place to go; they don't even offer it as a single subject. Learning Chinese in China isn't necessarily a good thing for a plethora of reasons. It's really bloody expensive and the degree you come out with won't hold nearly as much weight as a degree from the UK would; unless of course you only ever plan to work in China. And I know absolutely nothing about studying Chinese in Germany.

However, I do know about studying Chinese in England! Basically, the best institutions are: Sheffield, Leeds, SOAS (School of Oriental and African Studies), Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh; then there's Newcastle and Notts, which, while they are very good, don't actually run straight Chinese.

Someone mentioned about simplified / traditional characters - this is a valid point. You may already know but incase you don't: simplified characters are what the Commies have promulgated on the Mainland since the 1950's. As the name suggests they are just a 'simplified' form of the traditional characters. Traditional characters, however, are still used in places such as Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao. To my knowledge only Oxford, Cambridge, SOAS and Edinburgh give their students a grounding in classical and traditional Chinese and take a slightly more 'academic' approach. It entirely depends what you want out of the degree in that respect.

Well that's all I can think of really. But what I will say is thoroughly check the syllabi of the different courses and check what's right for you. Umm and incase you are wondering what my vested interest is, I will be studying Chinese at SOAS '06 entry :smile:

. I don't know everything about it and I don't think I've given any misinformation here, but feel free to ask anything.

Piers.

Reply 15

pharmakos

kashiya

By "Bochum" are you referring to Ruhr Uni in Germany. If so, definitely go to Ruhr, since, together with Heideberg, it is the best German institution in terms of sinology or Chinese studies. If you ask a sinologist to enumerate best institutions for Chinese studies in the West, Ruhr will be one of them for sure (others would be Heideberg, SOAS, Leiden, Leuven, Sorbonne, Harvard, Berkeley, etc.)

Reply 16

Jammertal

kashiya

But than: A degree from UK will be better than a degree form Germany. The social life at Notts is for sure better. With a degree from UK I might get easier into a Uni in USA/China...(

Degrees from Germany (Diplom, not the new BAs) are generally v highly regarded in the anglo- saxon world and you shouldn't have serious problems to get into a uni abroad for further studies.

Reply 17

kashiya

Piers- unfortunately I'd have to reapply to go to soas or oxbridge... I had offers for PPE at various unis but I declined them in order to try UCAS Extra for Chinese and through this I got the place at Notts. I'm not interested in Chinese as such - it's only a tool for me.

Yeah, I mean Ruhr Uni. I didn't know it was that good! I figured out it had many different courses that had something to do with East Asia so I though they must be ok... Are there many applicants?

Leiden, Leuven - I haven't heard about those Unis... Where are they? In what language are the courses?

So you think Bochum is better than Notts? Or maybe I will put it in other words: Is Chinese at Notts worth the money?

Reply 18

Inquisitive

kashiya

I'm not interested in Chinese as such - it's only a tool for me.

Unfortunately, then it's going to be a really rough ride for you as you're likely going to dread it.

Written Chinese is a completely non-phonetic language based entirely on ideograms, which is very difficult to learn if you don't have the slightest bit of interest. In terms of speaking, there are four tones (for Mandarin) that you'll need to grasp well before progressing any further.

Arguably, Chinese is one of the hardest languages (if not the hardest) in the world for the foreign learner. It would take a substantial amount of time and more so without interest to reach even a reasonable, basic standard.

Perhaps it would've been better for you to stick with PPE...