Universities/colleges forget to tell you one minor thing
Hi all,
I just wanted to throw a spanner in the works for any student currently thinking of attending university this academic year, that doesn't have the best reputation or the 'top dog' status.(oxbridge,Lse etc)
The chances are that if you are applying for these universities your ucas grades are not the best (less than 340). What these universities fail to tell you when they take your money, is that if you have any ambition of landing a decent well paid graduate job in your field then your ucas points could potentially hold you back.
You can achieve a 1st class honours degree and not make it past the first page of the application form for example
"sorry you do not meet the requirements" as you do not have sufficient ucas points.. regardless of your work experience, internships etc... or your 1st/2.1 degree that you have just spent 20k+ for.
The universities and colleges know that CERTAIN graduate employers in this economic environment will only accept 300-340 ucas points, but having discussed this with people from several universities this is not made aware to them when they first sign up and hand over the money.
new students please be aware of this pitfall, as you could potentially waste a lot of money and time, which could be spent working at a lower level in the industry that you want to work in, while gaining valuable experience and actual earnings. Finally remember that universities are a business, and there is a reason why they leave these details out.
I just wanted to throw a spanner in the works for any student currently thinking of attending university this academic year, that doesn't have the best reputation or the 'top dog' status.(oxbridge,Lse etc)
The chances are that if you are applying for these universities your ucas grades are not the best (less than 340). What these universities fail to tell you when they take your money, is that if you have any ambition of landing a decent well paid graduate job in your field then your ucas points could potentially hold you back.
You can achieve a 1st class honours degree and not make it past the first page of the application form for example
"sorry you do not meet the requirements" as you do not have sufficient ucas points.. regardless of your work experience, internships etc... or your 1st/2.1 degree that you have just spent 20k+ for.
The universities and colleges know that CERTAIN graduate employers in this economic environment will only accept 300-340 ucas points, but having discussed this with people from several universities this is not made aware to them when they first sign up and hand over the money.
new students please be aware of this pitfall, as you could potentially waste a lot of money and time, which could be spent working at a lower level in the industry that you want to work in, while gaining valuable experience and actual earnings. Finally remember that universities are a business, and there is a reason why they leave these details out.
(edited 11 years ago)
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Well this is already looked at by employment prospects, sure we aren't told the jobs but one can see that LSE has a 92% of graduates gaining employment in 6 months after graduation and that the lower universities get 50% employment prospects down the line.
Sure we haven't been told about A-level requirement by UCAS points but I have rarely seen any position being offered via A-levels rather GCSE's making sure you basic Numeracy and Literacy skills.
Sure we haven't been told about A-level requirement by UCAS points but I have rarely seen any position being offered via A-levels rather GCSE's making sure you basic Numeracy and Literacy skills.
Original post by politis
Hi all,
I just wanted to throw a spanner in the works for any student currently thinking of attending university this academic year, that doesn't have the best reputation or the 'top dog' status.(oxbridge,Lse etc)
The chances are that if you are applying for these universities your ucas grades are not the best (less than 340). What these universities fail to tell you when they take your money, is that if you have any ambition of landing a decent well paid graduate job in your field then your ucas points could potentially hold you back.
You can achieve a 1st class honours degree and not make it past the first page of the application form for example
"sorry you do not meet the requirements" as you do not have sufficient ucas points.. regardless of your work experience, internships etc... or your 1st/2.1 degree that you have just spent 20k+ for.
The universities and colleges know that most graduate employers in this economic environment will only accept 340 ucas points, but having discussed this with people from several universities this is not made aware to them when they first sign up and hand over the money.
new students please be aware of this pitfall, as you could potentially waste a lot of money and time, which could be spent working at a lower level in the industry that you want to work in, while gaining valuable experience and actual earnings. Finally remember that universities are a business, and there is a reason why they leave these details out.
I just wanted to throw a spanner in the works for any student currently thinking of attending university this academic year, that doesn't have the best reputation or the 'top dog' status.(oxbridge,Lse etc)
The chances are that if you are applying for these universities your ucas grades are not the best (less than 340). What these universities fail to tell you when they take your money, is that if you have any ambition of landing a decent well paid graduate job in your field then your ucas points could potentially hold you back.
You can achieve a 1st class honours degree and not make it past the first page of the application form for example
"sorry you do not meet the requirements" as you do not have sufficient ucas points.. regardless of your work experience, internships etc... or your 1st/2.1 degree that you have just spent 20k+ for.
The universities and colleges know that most graduate employers in this economic environment will only accept 340 ucas points, but having discussed this with people from several universities this is not made aware to them when they first sign up and hand over the money.
new students please be aware of this pitfall, as you could potentially waste a lot of money and time, which could be spent working at a lower level in the industry that you want to work in, while gaining valuable experience and actual earnings. Finally remember that universities are a business, and there is a reason why they leave these details out.
Sorry i'm an international student and was wondering which unis are the "top dog", just Oxbridge and LSE?
Original post by Mierder
Sorry i'm an international student and was wondering which unis are the "top dog", just Oxbridge and LSE?
Edinburgh, St Andrews, Warwick, etc etc... But the University you go to doesn't really matter. There are thousands of very intelligent students who, I don't know for example need to go to the local University due to family commitments etc (me knowing this from the experience of multiple friends who could've gone to a top 10 uni).
Original post by politis
Hi all,
I just wanted to throw a spanner in the works for any student currently thinking of attending university this academic year, that doesn't have the best reputation or the 'top dog' status.(oxbridge,Lse etc)
The chances are that if you are applying for these universities your ucas grades are not the best (less than 340). What these universities fail to tell you when they take your money, is that if you have any ambition of landing a decent well paid graduate job in your field then your ucas points could potentially hold you back.
You can achieve a 1st class honours degree and not make it past the first page of the application form for example
"sorry you do not meet the requirements" as you do not have sufficient ucas points.. regardless of your work experience, internships etc... or your 1st/2.1 degree that you have just spent 20k+ for.
The universities and colleges know that most graduate employers in this economic environment will only accept 340 ucas points, but having discussed this with people from several universities this is not made aware to them when they first sign up and hand over the money.
new students please be aware of this pitfall, as you could potentially waste a lot of money and time, which could be spent working at a lower level in the industry that you want to work in, while gaining valuable experience and actual earnings. Finally remember that universities are a business, and there is a reason why they leave these details out.
I just wanted to throw a spanner in the works for any student currently thinking of attending university this academic year, that doesn't have the best reputation or the 'top dog' status.(oxbridge,Lse etc)
The chances are that if you are applying for these universities your ucas grades are not the best (less than 340). What these universities fail to tell you when they take your money, is that if you have any ambition of landing a decent well paid graduate job in your field then your ucas points could potentially hold you back.
You can achieve a 1st class honours degree and not make it past the first page of the application form for example
"sorry you do not meet the requirements" as you do not have sufficient ucas points.. regardless of your work experience, internships etc... or your 1st/2.1 degree that you have just spent 20k+ for.
The universities and colleges know that most graduate employers in this economic environment will only accept 340 ucas points, but having discussed this with people from several universities this is not made aware to them when they first sign up and hand over the money.
new students please be aware of this pitfall, as you could potentially waste a lot of money and time, which could be spent working at a lower level in the industry that you want to work in, while gaining valuable experience and actual earnings. Finally remember that universities are a business, and there is a reason why they leave these details out.
That is not true.
Yes, a certain number of graduate employers do stipulate that applicants have achieved a certain number of UCAS points (usually between 300 to 320 in my experience) as well as a 2:1 or 2:2 honours degree. I have seen very few stipulate 340 points, which would equate to AAB unless I'm mistaken, let alone the majority.
Even those who do stipulate 300 - 320 UCAS points it is far from a majority of all graduate employers. It is only a small minority. It may be a significant number of employers in certain career sectors, however. For example, a number of years ago (well before the economy buggered up) I was considering doing a couple of legal internships during the summer. Every single national or regional firm that I considered stipulated that all applicants require 300 - 320 UCAS points along with good first (and where applicable second) year degree performance. However, this isn't necessarily the case for internships in the voluntary sector, media, or property and construction sector.
It is not a university's job to inform applicants this. Graduate recruitment is a very broad and complex area and it is likely that a significant number of students (who have under 300 UCAS points) won't be disadvantaged as they will be applying for jobs in career sectors where a UCAS tarriff stipulation isn't frequently used (if used at all). Nor can they really prepdict what the economy is going to be like in a few years time and what employers will ask for. Furthermore some people underperform during their A-levels due to mitigating factors such as illness. If a person does have mitigating circumstances then these may be taken into account. So what would be gained in providing them with scary stories when it may not be relevant to them?
Original post by cgraham15
Edinburgh, St Andrews, Warwick, etc etc... But the University you go to doesn't really matter. There are thousands of very intelligent students who, I don't know for example need to go to the local University due to family commitments etc (me knowing this from the experience of multiple friends who could've gone to a top 10 uni).
what about Imperial College, i'm considering applying there, is it as good as the likes of the Oxbridge, LSE group?
Original post by Mierder
what about Imperial College, i'm considering applying there, is it as good as the likes of the Oxbridge, LSE group?
I've never been but it's up there with the good ones
but it's not the end of the world if you don't get in.
Original post by cgraham15
Im pretty sure a degree overwrites simple A Levels. Also, people from low ranking universities can always do a masters at a top University if they do well in their undergrad.
It depends on what you're applying for. If you want to go into Law for example then you must have excellent A-Levels as well for the big firms. The same applies to banking too. In addition, some will even specify particular GCSE grades in English and Maths, usually C and above (and for some banking graduate schemes B or A). What they want to see is a continuous demonstration of academic excellence.
(edited 11 years ago)
Im writing from a host of different opinions on this matter-past students graduating since 2007 up till now , not just my own experience or a simple google search.
You would think that a degree 'over rides' your A-levels, as it is the most recent but that is not the case, employers filter you out on the basis of a-levels and degree qualification not your GCSE's. So like I said you could get a 1st but if you have 320 ucas points- then the door remains shut.
Booyah: Literacy and numercy are needed and they are tested during psychometric tests, to get to that stage of taking the test you need to meet the min requirements- which is 340 ucas points and a min 2.1 in a lot of cases- look at milkround.com and gander at some job specs and try it out.
Finally, I'm not saying any of this to put a dampner on anyones achievement of getting to university in the first place, it is something that does need to be brought to attention though so that you don't find yourself in a postion where you want to work in a certain industry, proceed to get the relevant degree and put all the effort in, then finally realise the front door option was always closed since day one.
You would think that a degree 'over rides' your A-levels, as it is the most recent but that is not the case, employers filter you out on the basis of a-levels and degree qualification not your GCSE's. So like I said you could get a 1st but if you have 320 ucas points- then the door remains shut.
Booyah: Literacy and numercy are needed and they are tested during psychometric tests, to get to that stage of taking the test you need to meet the min requirements- which is 340 ucas points and a min 2.1 in a lot of cases- look at milkround.com and gander at some job specs and try it out.
Finally, I'm not saying any of this to put a dampner on anyones achievement of getting to university in the first place, it is something that does need to be brought to attention though so that you don't find yourself in a postion where you want to work in a certain industry, proceed to get the relevant degree and put all the effort in, then finally realise the front door option was always closed since day one.
Original post by cgraham15
Im pretty sure a degree overwrites simple A Levels. Also, people from low ranking universities can always do a masters at a top University if they do well in their undergrad.
This is what logic would dictate, but more competitive employers have enough top applicants that they can (and have to) employ cheap methods like this to thin the herd. When I say cheap, they are often automated - computers don't care how good your work experience is if they've been instructed to cut off people with A-levels below AAB.
depends on what course, things like engineering and stuff it doesnt matter, simply because the people hiring you and sometimes top people in the company have done hnd & hnc at ex poly
ie i think the lead engineer at babcock has
it really depends on subject, ie professional degrees are much much more feasible at lower tier unis
ie i think the lead engineer at babcock has
it really depends on subject, ie professional degrees are much much more feasible at lower tier unis
So what happened to going to uni to satisfy ones intellectual curiosity or to fulfil an academic interest?
People who think degrees are a way of getting a job, outside engineering/medicine etc, are deluded. Even Oxbridge students aren't guaranteed a job. The candidate is much more important that the institution they went to.
The world is bigger than London, and bigger than FTSE 100 companies
People who think degrees are a way of getting a job, outside engineering/medicine etc, are deluded. Even Oxbridge students aren't guaranteed a job. The candidate is much more important that the institution they went to.
The world is bigger than London, and bigger than FTSE 100 companies
Original post by River85
That is not true.
So what would be gained in providing them with scary stories when it may not be relevant to them?
So what would be gained in providing them with scary stories when it may not be relevant to them?
It is not a scare story, it is a point to consider before you take the step of going to university. The economy will be in a similar state in 3 years time, and consider the fact that 1/3 of 2012 graduate schemes are applied to by previous years students, then this trend of a highly competitive job market will continue. So.. it is worth noting that if you want to get in to certain industries via grad schemes, the average is 320-340 ucas points, and if you haven't got that then good luck trying to get into the back door, side door, window etc.
Original post by politis
Im writing from a host of different opinions on this matter-past students graduating since 2007 up till now , not just my own experience or a simple google search.
You would think that a degree 'over rides' your A-levels, as it is the most recent but that is not the case, employers filter you out on the basis of a-levels and degree qualification not your GCSE's. So like I said you could get a 1st but if you have 320 ucas points- then the door remains shut.
Booyah: Literacy and numercy are needed and they are tested during psychometric tests, to get to that stage of taking the test you need to meet the min requirements- which is 340 ucas points and a min 2.1 in a lot of cases- look at milkround.com and gander at some job specs and try it out.
Finally, I'm not saying any of this to put a dampner on anyones achievement of getting to university in the first place, it is something that does need to be brought to attention though so that you don't find yourself in a postion where you want to work in a certain industry, proceed to get the relevant degree and put all the effort in, then finally realise the front door option was always closed since day one.
You would think that a degree 'over rides' your A-levels, as it is the most recent but that is not the case, employers filter you out on the basis of a-levels and degree qualification not your GCSE's. So like I said you could get a 1st but if you have 320 ucas points- then the door remains shut.
Booyah: Literacy and numercy are needed and they are tested during psychometric tests, to get to that stage of taking the test you need to meet the min requirements- which is 340 ucas points and a min 2.1 in a lot of cases- look at milkround.com and gander at some job specs and try it out.
Finally, I'm not saying any of this to put a dampner on anyones achievement of getting to university in the first place, it is something that does need to be brought to attention though so that you don't find yourself in a postion where you want to work in a certain industry, proceed to get the relevant degree and put all the effort in, then finally realise the front door option was always closed since day one.
so is it advisable to retake a levels while at uni
This thread is stupid and misguided
Original post by politis
It is not a scare story, it is a point to consider before you take the step of going to university. The economy will be in a similar state in 3 years time, and consider the fact that 1/3 of 2012 graduate schemes are applied to by previous years students, then this trend of a highly competitive job market will continue. So.. it is worth noting that if you want to get in to certain industries via grad schemes, the average is 320-340 ucas points, and if you haven't got that then good luck trying to get into the back door, side door, window etc.
Well, my main bug bear was that you stated "most" or the majority of graduate employers do this. It's not even a large minority. This is therefore exaggerating the problem in order to scare people.
Again, a university isn't going to know what a particular student's career plans are when they apply (perhaps the student doesn't even know). University provides an opportunity for a student to study a subject at an advanced level, develop transferable skills, and take part in volunteering and internships that will allow him (or her) to explore career options. At the age of 18 you're still uncomplete as a person. Moreoever, many of these university's offer professional courses, particularly health care courses. Do you think the NHS care about A-levels?
The decision to study a degree is, at least in part, an academic decision and at the application stage this is what the university's are interested in - your academic potential, suitability, and motivation. It is not the university's responsibility to interrogate teenagers about their possible career plans and perhaps confuse them.
It is in the university's best interest for its students to find employment after graduation as employment statistics are used in league tables. This is why they willl (or should) provide as much support and advice during the students' time at university. However, yes, universities are a business and it's also in their interest to get bums and seats and not scare off applicants needlessly.
I thank you for brining this to the attention of people, though I think many applicants (or soon to be applicants) are already aware that this happens having looked at adverts, internships and browsed TSR (as UCAS tarrifs are frequently mentioned). But please don't suggest the majority of employers do this.
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