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Type III Diabetes = Alzheimer's disease?

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    Thoughts?

    Further to the article there seems to be an underlying theme of class. What are peoples opinion on the third paragraph, as follows;
    I suspect that much of this mockery is a coded form of snobbery: the strong association between poor diets and poverty allows people to use this issue as a cipher for something else they want to say, which is less socially acceptable.
    Is there a definite link between obesity and poverty? or is more a link between lack of education and obesity?

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    Edit.
    Thinking about my access to a gym, I'd say it'd be difficult for a low-income family to support it. My gym membership for this summer was 3 months at £68 and an additional month at £25 = £93.

    As I live in the middle of nowhere I could either drive to the gym and pay for petrol / parking (which is extremely expensive and far away from the gym in Harrogate) or get the train. I opted for the train, which is £77.20 a month. I've bought this monthly ticket three times over this summer costing £231.60.

    That's £324.60.

    Factor in the protein shakes I use, which would be £59.99 from Maxi-raw with a £10 discount, (i've just had to re-order) so that's doubled to £119.98. Then there's the longer term cost of clothes / shoes / equipment, say £20 a month, so £60 for this summer.

    Neglect the food I'd eat, and the amount of white meat I'd go through and that's still £504.58.
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    (Original post by crocker710)
    Is there a definite link between obesity and poverty?
    People are fat, largely, because they either lack the intelligence or the discipline to eat a sensible amount. These bad traits are also likely to mean people are unable to get good jobs. So it's more like a common cause, than one causing the other.

    Thinking about my access to a gym, I'd say it'd be difficult for a low-income family to support it.
    You don't need to go to the gym to not be fat. You certainly don't need protein shakes, huge quantities of chicken breasts, etc. You just need to not eat too much food. Eating less food is always cheaper than eating more food.
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    It's a well known fact that obesity is linked to poverty, any medical sociology textbook will tell you that. Junk food, on the whole, is cheaper than healthier options.
    Any claim that it not being educated that causes obesity is rather ill informed. Some studies even suggest that if a mother from a 'well off' family was suddenly dropped into a famly in poverty she would struggle to feed them as the mother used to being in poverty has gained excellent budgeting skills to get the most from their money.
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    (Original post by crocker710)
    Thoughts?

    Further to the article there seems to be an underlying theme of class. What are peoples opinion on the third paragraph, as follows;
    Is there a definite link between obesity and poverty? or is more a link between lack of education and obesity?
    1) The quote refers to poverty and poor diet, not poverty and obesity, they are not the same.

    2) It is just as easy (if not more so) to become obese on a higher income than it is a lower one. Certainly 5-10 years ago obesity was disproportionately higher in higher income groups.

    3) While there is a misconception that "healthy" foods are more expensive many people also mistakenly believe that "healthy" foods are less calorific and eat up to 3x as much as they would normally.

    4) Obesity is multifactorial, there is not a single leading cause. There are a whole host of issues from relaxing attitudes regarding obesity, to the NHS, general ignorance, sub par education, lack of accountability, predatory food marketing, laziness, unrealistic expectations, etc.

    Edit.
    Thinking about my access to a gym, I'd say it'd be difficult for a low-income family to support it. My gym membership for this summer was 3 months at £68 and an additional month at £25 = £93.

    As I live in the middle of nowhere I could either drive to the gym and pay for petrol / parking (which is extremely expensive and far away from the gym in Harrogate) or get the train. I opted for the train, which is £77.20 a month. I've bought this monthly ticket three times over this summer costing £231.60.

    That's £324.60.

    Factor in the protein shakes I use, which would be £59.99 from Maxi-raw with a £10 discount, (i've just had to re-order) so that's doubled to £119.98. Then there's the longer term cost of clothes / shoes / equipment, say £20 a month, so £60 for this summer.

    Neglect the food I'd eat, and the amount of white meat I'd go through and that's still £504.58.
    Paralysis by analysis:

    1) You don't need a gym membership to exercise or stay healthy. There are plenty of cheaper, if not free, forms of exercise that whole families can do. Walking, running, cycling, calisthenics, cheap local sports clubs and classes, etc.

    2) You don't need supplements to lose weight or stay healthy.

    3) You don't need to spend large amounts of money on expensive sport or fitness clothes and equipment to lose weight or stay healthy.

    4) Eating healthily does not have to be expensive. People mistakenly believe that you have to go Organic/Grass-Fed/Gluten-Free/High-Protein/whatever which could not be further from the truth.

    (Original post by Elwyn)
    It's a well known fact that obesity is linked to poverty, any medical sociology textbook will tell you that. Junk food, on the whole, is cheaper than healthier options. Any claim that it not being educated that causes obesity is rather ill informed. Some studies even suggest that if a mother from a 'well off' family was suddenly dropped into a famly in poverty she would struggle to feed them as the mother used to being in poverty has gained excellent budgeting skills to get the most from their money.
    Very few people understand how to buy cheap but healthy foods or how to prepare a good meal from them. Go back 20 years or so and those sorts of skills were taught to people both in and out of school from an early age.

    For example, you can buy a kilo bag of own brand porridge for less than a pound which will do most people for 10-15 "good" meals, yet I've lost count of the number of people on a budget buying expensive branded breakfast cereals which are several times more expensive, loaded with sugars and don't last as long. Equally I could prepare a healthy soup for several people based on dried beans/lentils, a couple of pieces of veg, some stock and some herbs/spices for the price of a "cheap" ready meal that will serve one person.
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    (Original post by Elwyn)
    It's a well known fact that obesity is linked to poverty, any medical sociology textbook will tell you that. Junk food, on the whole, is cheaper than healthier options.
    Doesn't matter. You won't get fat just because you eat junk food, if your calorie intake is appropriately limited. Thought experiment: someone who eats a bag of salted McDonalds fries every day and nothing else will be overweight or underweight?

    It's also not even true. A meal at a fast food place will cost at least £4 or so. Or £5 if you supersize everything. Taking in 2kcal (a sensible amount) at KFC will cost £10+ a day, and eating enough to actually get fat, pushing on £15-20. The same is true for ready meals - they are more expensive than the sum of the ingredients by a lot. Just about the cheapest food per calorie you can buy is long grain rice, which you can get a rate of £1/kg and probably better at asian supermarkets. That 1kg bag contains 3500kcal, almost 2 days' worth, and is one of the healthiest foods you can eat.


    Any claim that it not being educated that causes obesity is rather ill informed.
    It may be debatable whether the actual education system makes people better at nutrition, since it generally doesn't teach nutrition, but there is no necessity for anyone to be fat (barring rare medical conditions) if they know about calorie restriction, which I don't think many do. The other component is self-discipline, so education wouldn't be enough, but it should help.

    edit: great post by ch0c0h01ic
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Doesn't matter. You won't get fat just because you eat junk food, if your calorie intake is appropriately limited. Thought experiment: someone who eats a bag of salted McDonalds fries every day and nothing else will be overweight or underweight?

    It's also not even true. A meal at a fast food place will cost at least £4 or so. Or £5 if you supersize everything. Taking in 2kcal (a sensible amount) at KFC will cost £10+ a day, and eating enough to actually get fat, pushing on £15-20. The same is true for ready meals - they are more expensive than the sum of the ingredients by a lot. Just about the cheapest food per calorie you can buy is long grain rice, which you can get a rate of £1/kg and probably better at asian supermarkets. That 1kg bag contains 3500kcal, almost 2 days' worth, and is one of the healthiest foods you can eat.



    It may be debatable whether the actual education system makes people better at nutrition, since it generally doesn't teach nutrition, but there is no necessity for anyone to be fat (barring rare medical conditions) if they know about calorie restriction, which I don't think many do. The other component is self-discipline, so education wouldn't be enough, but it should help.

    edit: great post by ch0c0h01ic
    Who said anything about Mcdonalds or KFC? One of those large pizzas you get in supermarkets will set you back no more than £4 and feed the fmily with some chips. I'm aware you can buy rice cheaper, but by healthy options I was referring to fresh meat aswell (something that is not cheap if you're buying for a family), ie a balanced diet. Have a read of 'The Black Report', there's a lot more that goes into this sort of thing than most people realise.
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    (Original post by Elwyn)
    Who said anything about Mcdonalds or KFC? One of those large pizzas you get in supermarkets will set you back no more than £4 and feed the fmily with some chips.
    Tesco value large pizza - http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Produ.../?id=256048200 - 800kcal/£
    Whole milk - http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Produ.../?id=254957550 - 1270kcal/£
    Tesco value bread (ie. the same thing but without a lot of crap on it) - http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Produ.../?id=258742688 - 5200kcal/£
    Tesco value long grain rice - http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Produ.../?id=258386314 - 8800kcal/£ (!!!)

    People feed their families with microwave pizzas because they are lazy and/or ignorant, and like the taste of pizza(!), not because they're too poor to do better.

    I'm aware you can buy rice cheaper, but by healthy options I was referring to fresh meat aswell (something that is not cheap if you're buying for a family), ie a balanced diet. Have a read of 'The Black Report', there's a lot more that goes into this sort of thing than most people realise.
    Granted fresh meat is more expensive, but an economy pizza doesn't contain fresh meat either, so that is hardly a reason to eat it. I also do not see how not having a lot of fresh meat in one's diet makes one fat.
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    (Original post by Elwyn)
    One of those large pizzas you get in supermarkets will set you back no more than £4 and feed the fmily with some chips. I'm aware you can buy rice cheaper, but by healthy options I was referring to fresh meat aswell (something that is not cheap if you're buying for a family), ie a balanced diet.
    If you know what you're doing fresh meat, or at least lean meats and fish, can be bought cheaply. The problem is that the vast majority of people don't know how to (and I would probably include you in that distinction) or simply cannot be bothered. The misconception that you have to eat large amounts of fresh meats to be "healthy" certainly doesn't help matters.

    You can make significant savings going for cheaper cuts of meat (eg; chicken legs, thighs and wings) rather than premium cuts (eg; chicken breast). Further savings can be made buying frozen and in bulk rather than fresh. And if you are a savvy shopper you can save over 50% buying fresh produce that has been discounted.

    Also bear in mind that while meat and fish may be more expensive if you bulk it out with things like beans and lentils you can make multiple "healthy" meals still for less than a couple of meals of pizza and chips. For example, 500g of premium lean beef mince may set you back around £4, but add several hundred grams of beans or lentils (which cost a matter of pence), a couple of onions, some spices and a tin of chopped tomatoes and you can get two meals out of it still for less than the price of two pizzas and two bags of chips.

    Have a read of 'The Black Report', there's a lot more that goes into this sort of thing than most people realise.
    As far as I am aware The Black Report did not link obesity to lower incomes. Most of it's discussion focused on how healthcare provision, education, tobacco, alcohol and access to sport affected overall health (which is important but largely a different issue).

    If you look into the research regarding obesity there isn't a whole lot of evidence linking it to lower income groups. There was a review back in 1989 which saw that higher class women were less likely to be obese, however there was no such correlations seen regarding men. An update of the original review in 2007 saw the same, but weaker, relationships.
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    Where does Alzheimers fit into it?

    You dont need to go to the gym to be fit, what's wrong with road running, swimming in the sea in the summer if you can get to it, and doing pressups and situps at home?
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    I think you just need to eat healthy foods. You should first make a diet plan and follow this plan. Don't eat too much and don't eat less eat too much but eat healthy which is good to get healthy.
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    Well that's just maddenly unhelpful. Alzheimer's is not a form of diabetes mellitus. There may be a correlation between Alzheimer's and type II diabetes, causation is not necessarily implied, and calling it 'type III diabetes' implies that it is strictly down to diet - which it is not, there are key genetic factors as well as environmental factors. We do not fully understand Alzheimer's disease but calling it a form of diabetes in an attempt to simplify it only causes confusion and can even impede research and awareness.
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    (Original post by Clare~Bear)
    Where does Alzheimers fit into it?
    (Original post by corpuscallosum)
    Well that's just maddenly unhelpful. Alzheimer's is not a form of diabetes mellitus. There may be a correlation between Alzheimer's and type II diabetes, causation is not necessarily implied, and calling it 'type III diabetes' implies that it is strictly down to diet - which it is not, there are key genetic factors as well as environmental factors. We do not fully understand Alzheimer's disease but calling it a form of diabetes in an attempt to simplify it only causes confusion and can even impede research and awareness.
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/...ood-scare.html
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-dementia.html

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