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Nuclear weapons ? Or fake excuse?

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    I have 2 points I would like to discuss. First why do the US, France, Russia, uk, china, india! Pakistan, north Korea and Israel have the right to have/ use nuclear weapons but Iran can't? Why shouldn't those countries get sanctions too? Am I missing something? Why are they giving sanctions to Iran even though they are saying they are not trying to develop nuclear weapons? So in theory we could give sanctions on the CIA for torturing people even though they said they don't . My second point, it seems to me that saying Iran has nuclear weapons and we should invade is just a fake excuse to invade. Now the international atomic energy agency was not allowed to look around some parts of irans nuclear reactors but so what? They can keep secrets. Jam sure I won't be allowed to go look into parts of the CIA or mi6 etc. Can anyone enlighten me at the subject?
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    (Original post by Bakeryipad)
    I have 2 points I would like to discuss. First why do the US, France, Russia, uk, china, india! Pakistan, north Korea and Israel have the right to have/ use nuclear weapons but Iran can't? Why shouldn't those countries get sanctions too? Am I missing something? Why are they giving sanctions to Iran even though they are saying they are not trying to develop nuclear weapons? So in theory we could give sanctions on the CIA for torturing people even though they said they don't . My second point, it seems to me that saying Iran has nuclear weapons and we should invade is just a fake excuse to invade. Now the international atomic energy agency was not allowed to look around some parts of irans nuclear reactors but so what? They can keep secrets. Jam sure I won't be allowed to go look into parts of the CIA or mi6 etc. Can anyone enlighten me at the subject?
    I see that you are very wise and objective. I praise thee for your lack of any hypocrisy and grand sense of fairness. Clearly our enemies should be allowed to develop any weapon the we ourselves have. Sure we sacrifice our own security and we lose significant influence by allowing them to do so, but at least we can feel intellectually and morally superior by maintaining and impartial attitude towards a threat to our very way of life.

    Those who pass sanctions do so because they can, and they deem to do so is imperative to protecting their interests. If you think that is inappropriate then you need to grow up. You are now enlightened.
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    (Original post by Bakeryipad)
    Why are they giving sanctions to Iran even though they are saying they are not trying to develop nuclear weapons? So in theory we could give sanctions on the CIA for torturing people even though they said they don't .
    Of course, just how president Bashar Al-Assad claims he's fighting "terrorists groups" , with 20,000 civilians dead.
    Dont underestimate Iran's military capability or their intentions or wiping another country off the map. Its not just countries like the U.S. and Israel that are saying that Iran is developing nukes; its also many Arab countries such as Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and UAE. These countries have little to no reason to say such a lie and the U.S. clearly isnt willing to strike Iran anytime soon.

    What's right is right, what's true is true. Most of those countries you mentioned have never threatened another country.
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    Because the only reason any country is "allowed" to have nukes now is because it'd be practically impossible to take it from them.

    No more nukes should be made by anyone.

    As many nukes should be taken from as many people as possible wherever possible.
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    Also because Iran is a country with a fundamentalist government who wouldn't hesitate to use nukes at any point, even with the threat of annihilation to themselves.

    I think other countries that have nukes value the lives of their own citizens slightly more than Iran does.
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    Iran's people are being punished by these sanctions. If Iran is really doing all this nuclear stuff for medicine then Iran's people are being punished because their government is trying to help them, and I they are producing weapons then Iran's people are being punished because their government is trying to protect them.
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    Perhaps because it is an accepted truth amongst the intelligence community (even the Arab ones) that Iran is supplying and sponsoring terror groups throughout the region. The ability to supply a nuclear device to a terror group that could use it, say in the Port of London, leaving them (Iran)to deny any knowledge may be a risk too far.

    Then again it could just be that the big boys don't want to share their toys.

    But ask yourself this.
    Nearly 30 years after Israel developed its own bomb Iran is still on the map.
    Do you honestly think that if Iran develops their own bomb tomorrow Israel will still be on the map in 30 years time?
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    (Original post by Bakeryipad)
    Iran's people are being punished by these sanctions
    Actually, Iran's people are being punished by an oppressive government that sponsors terrorism and denies its own people their rights. :dry:
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    (Original post by caravaggio2)
    Do you honestly think that if Iran develops their own bomb tomorrow Israel will still be on the map in 30 years time?
    Im pretty sure that most countries in the Middle East and maybe south-east Europe will be wiped off the map if Iran gets those weapons, including Syria after Assad gets killed.
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    I don't like the hypocrisy of nations like Israel having nuclear weapons, purely because they are backed by the US. But whilst I do like the idea of every nation being allowed to develop their own weapons, I don't like the idea of a country which is unpredictably hostile and is determined to use weapons without thought of consequence. But I frankly don't care if they bomb the hell out of Israel since they will probably launch their own first strike sometime soon.
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    Because the Iranian's are absolutely crazy? Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah have both PUBLICLY stated that they want to wipe the state of Israel off the face of the map...sure they may only be trying to drum up political support, but I'd rather the western world be hypocritical over who can have nukes and who can't, rather than let these lunatics have some.
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    (Original post by Kiss)
    I don't like the hypocrisy of nations like Israel having nuclear weapons, purely because they are backed by the US. But whilst I do like the idea of every nation being allowed to develop their own weapons, I don't like the idea of a country which is unpredictably hostile and is determined to use weapons without thought of consequence. But I frankly don't care if they bomb the hell out of Israel since they will probably launch their own first strike sometime soon.
    Israel probably won't attack them. Let me explain Israel to you; when they say theyll attack, it means they wont. and If theyre quiet, it means they will.

    Don't you worry, Saudi Arabia and many other Arab countries will attack Iran sooner or later if Israel doesn't. You don't seem to understand how fed up everyone is with Iran and its puppets in Syria and Lebanon I do hope that Iran shoots a missile at Israel so that Israel bombs them back to the Stone Age
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    because we live in a world of hipocrasy and coruption.
    we are controlled by terrorists, Bush, Obama, Blair, Cameron, the CIA and MI5, they are no better then Bin Laden
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    (Original post by Carrotcake18)
    Actually, Iran's people are being punished by an oppressive government that sponsors terrorism and denies its own people their rights. :dry:
    America denies the person who leaked file to wiki leaks , bradely manning, freedom even though he expressed his the freedom of speech. Russia won't allow the members of pussy riot their freedom they deserve for expressing their voices. Those countries deny their people their rights yet they are allowed to have or use nuclear weapons. Those people in some people's eyes may have deserved to be put in jail but their country denied their rights and are unaffected by sanctions
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    In regards to nuclear weapons, there is as yet no evidence that Iran are actually building nuclear weapons. As much as the world may claim that Iran are intent on this, there is as yet not a single element of evidence to support this claim.

    However, if Iran weren't intent on building nuclear weapons, their current behaviour makes very little sense. By allowing unrestricted IAEA inspections, Iran could quickly extinguish these rumours, and make headway towards lifting the sanctions that are crippling their economy. They could even continue a nuclear energy/medicine program. I can't think of a rational reason why they wouldn't do this, except do want to make nuclear weapons.

    If Iran had nuclear weapons, would they use them offensively? I don't know. I'd like to think no rational agent would ever use nuclear weapons against a country that could respond in kind. However Iran's behaviour is a little short of rational.

    Is invasion the answer? Probably not. The nuclear program has broad support from both sides of the Iranian political spectrum, and threat of invasion may even increase the desire for a deterrent. Israel doesn't have the resources to occupy Iran, and the US/UK have no taste for another long war. At the same time, a tactical strike to remove Iran's existing facilities will do nothing but delay their progress by a few years.

    Conclusion: It seems logical Iran are considering nuclear weapons, but an invasion is not likely to help in the long term. Solution: buggered if I know.
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    (Original post by zeropoint)
    In regards to nuclear weapons, there is as yet no evidence that Iran are actually building nuclear weapons. As much as the world may claim that Iran are intent on this, there is as yet not a single element of evidence to support this claim.

    However, if Iran weren't intent on building nuclear weapons, their current behaviour makes very little sense. By allowing unrestricted IAEA inspections, Iran could quickly extinguish these rumours, and make headway towards lifting the sanctions that are crippling their economy. They could even continue a nuclear energy/medicine program. I can't think of a rational reason why they wouldn't do this, except do want to make nuclear weapons.

    If Iran had nuclear weapons, would they use them offensively? I don't know. I'd like to think no rational agent would ever use nuclear weapons against a country that could respond in kind. However Iran's behaviour is a little short of rational.

    Is invasion the answer? Probably not. The nuclear program has broad support from both sides of the Iranian political spectrum, and threat of invasion may even increase the desire for a deterrent. Israel doesn't have the resources to occupy Iran, and the US/UK have no taste for another long war. At the same time, a tactical strike to remove Iran's existing facilities will do nothing but delay their progress by a few years.

    Conclusion: It seems logical Iran are considering nuclear weapons, but an invasion is not likely to help in the long term. Solution: buggered if I know.
    I agree with you on this. Anyway the USSR had nuclear weapons but the solution wasn't to invade it was it :dontknow: Maybe Iran will fall the same way communism did. It is only a matter of weeks/months till their best friend Assad will fall anyway.
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    My take on the Iran nuclear sanctions and the pending invasion on Iran which, lets face it, is inevitable, is because I think Israel wants to invade Iran because israel doesnt really have a practical fresh water supply capable of sustaining their populations needs. I believe that Israel seized water from the jordan river a while ago and have seized water from other arab countries when theyve invaded them in the past. Some people are probably going to read this and laugh at my 'suggestion' that countries are invading each other over the avalibility of fresh water within its constituent borders. Its probably because said people dont understand geopolitics. I think you should bare this in mind that Israel currently uses 95% of its fresh water supply already. Considering that israel's population is growing at about 1.5% year on year you can see where the problem lies. I just want to take this opportunity to reiterate that i am not displaying a anti-semitic agenda im just merely bringing this agenda and my theory on the arab conflict to light
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    (Original post by melevin9)
    My take on the Iran nuclear sanctions and the pending invasion on Iran which, lets face it, is inevitable, is because I think Israel wants to invade Iran because israel doesnt really have a practical fresh water supply capable of sustaining their populations needs. I believe that Israel seized water from the jordan river a while ago and have seized water from other arab countries when theyve invaded them in the past. Some people are probably going to read this and laugh at my 'suggestion' that countries are invading each other over the avalibility of fresh water within its constituent borders. Its probably because said people dont understand geopolitics. I think you should bare this in mind that Israel currently uses 95% of its fresh water supply already. Considering that israel's population is growing at about 1.5% year on year you can see where the problem lies. I just want to take this opportunity to reiterate that i am not displaying a anti-semitic agenda im just merely bringing this agenda and my theory on the arab conflict to light


    I dont want to disrespect you as a person, but that is the silliest thing I have ever heard. In most cases, Israel attacked other countries after it was attacked by the likes of Syria, Egypt, Jordan and several others. These countries dont have water in them and Israel has no reason to risks the lives of thousands of Israelis to invade those backward countries.

    There actually isnt water in the Golan Hights, or in the Sinai (which Israel returned to Egypt many years ago). And according to Israel's peace treaty with Jordan, Jordan takes 10% of Israel's water. So that clearly didnt work :confused: You say "Israel seized water from the jordan river"... the Jordan river has always been a part of Israel

    So you think every country in the Middle East that has begged the U.S. to bomb Iran (yes, Iran is pretty hated here) wants water...? Iran is threatening every country in the Middle East that doesn't have a Shia government. In fact it claims that Bahrain is actually Iranian territory.
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    (Original post by Carrotcake18)
    Its not just countries like the U.S. and Israel that are saying that Iran is developing nukes; its also many Arab countries such as Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and UAE. These countries have little to no reason to say such a lie and the U.S. clearly isnt willing to strike Iran anytime soon.
    That's just not true. Just because they're both brown and Muslim doesn't make them allies. Those countries hate Iran as much as the US and Israel and have perhaps even more to gain from their downfall. There are even cables which prove those very countries have been begging the US to attack so they are far from neutral.
    (Original post by Carrotcake18)
    What's right is right, what's true is true. Most of those countries you mentioned have never threatened another country.
    This is simply untrue as well. Pakistan and India have threatened each other with them, North Korea has threatened the South and the US and Russia came close to starting WW3. And lets not forget that the only country to actually USE nukes on another country is the US on Japanese civilians...

    The truth is as simple as ckingalt says. It's hypocritical and they have no less reason to have them than us, nor do I think they would be any more dangerous with them than us (and probably less so than the US). However, we simply don't want them having them and we're in a position to stop them so that's the end of it.
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    (Original post by Logi)
    That's just not true. Just because they're both brown and Muslim doesn't make them allies. Those countries hate Iran as much as the US and Israel and have perhaps even more to gain from their downfall
    In my other posts ive made it clear that these countries hate Iran. But lets not forget that these Arab countries dont have nuclear weapons or even the type of weapons Iran has (so in this case we can't argue 'ohh why should they have nukes and not Iran'). Iran is nothing but a bully in that region so I can't really blame these sunni countries for asking the U.S. for help

    Anyway there aren't really right or wrong answers and we'll just have to wait and see what happens :rolleyes:

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