Nuclear weapons ? Or fake excuse?

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How can they be a bully when they've such little power? I don't like the Iranian regime but I can't deny that were I in the same situation I would probably fancy a few nukes myself. They're surrounded by enemies and American bases and have already had their regime changed by a US plot with Saddam Hussain. Again I don't like them but I fail to see how they're the bully in this.

With Assad falling they wont have Syria as an ally for much longer, and without Assad they can't send weapons to Hezbollah. So I suppose they don't have as much power as they used to. But lets not play the stupid game and pretend they're all innocent in this. They bully their own people more than anything.

Surrounded by American bases? Let's not forget that America basically got rid of Iran's #1 enemy in Iraq (Saddam Hussain) and are fighting the taliban which Iran hates. So even after the U.S. got rid of Iran's enemies they still fancy nukes? :s-smilie:

All America has done so far is save Iranian sailors from drowning in the Persian gulf. And all Iran does in return is threaten to close the Strait of Hormuz. Very mature :unimpressed:

Reply 21

ckingalt

Original post by Kiss

I don't like the hypocrisy of nations like Israel having nuclear weapons, purely because they are backed by the US. But whilst I do like the idea of every nation being allowed to develop their own weapons, I don't like the idea of a country which is unpredictably hostile and is determined to use weapons without thought of consequence. But I frankly don't care if they bomb the hell out of Israel since they will probably launch their own first strike sometime soon.

If Iran were to develop a bomb and successfully detonate it in Israel (or most any other nation) then it would likely start a chain reaction that would lead to you having difficulty obtaining basic necessities (like food) within six months or less. I am not simply talking about World War III either. A nuclear attack anywhere would destabilize the worlds fragile economy to the point where basic infrastructures would collapse. Think about that when you say, "I don't care if they bomb the hell out of Israel".

Reply 22

the bear

Original post by Bakeryipad

why do the US, France, Russia, uk, china, india! Pakistan, north Korea and Israel have the right to have/ use nuclear weapons but Iran can't?

Iran is controlled by a bunch of nutjobs....

Reply 23

Bakeryipad

Original post by Logi

I mostly agree. The thing about sad dam Hussein I don't know anything about. Iran reminds me of a cartoon bully. He was so small but people feared him. All countries aren't scared of Iran but they are scared of the outcome of conflicts. For example.world war 2 atomic bombs , the Arab spring ,afghanstan. They all effected the economy, and right now the economy is already horrible.

Reply 24

Bakeryipad

I am not saying Iran isn't bad,sure they have done bad things but at least they should be treated like any other country like itself.

(Originally Posted by Kiss)
I don't like the hypocrisy of nations like Israel having nuclear weapons, purely because they are backed by the US. But whilst I do like the idea of every nation being allowed to develop their own weapons, I don't like the idea of a country which is unpredictably hostile and is determined to use weapons without thought of consequence. But I frankly don't care if they bomb the hell out of Israel since they will probably launch their own first strike sometime soon.

If Iran were to develop a bomb and successfully detonate it in Israel (or most any other nation) then it would likely start a chain reaction that would lead to you having difficulty obtaining basic necessities (like food) within six months or less. I am not simply talking about World War III either. A nuclear attack anywhere would destabilize the worlds fragile economy to the point where basic infrastructures would collapse. Think about that when you say, "I don't care if they bomb the hell out of Israel".

America isn't all that good. Each and every country has done something bad.

Reply 25

Nick100

Original post by Bakeryipad

I have 2 points I would like to discuss. First why do the US, France, Russia, uk, china, india! Pakistan, north Korea and Israel have the right to have/ use nuclear weapons but Iran can't?

It has nothing to do with "having the right" to have nuclear weapons (and nobody actually has the ability to use them without creating at the very least a massive ****storm); it's to do with whether or not we want to allow hostile nations to acquire weapons of mass destruction - we don't. In the cases of all the nations you mentioned there was nothing that could be done to stop them getting nukes - no one actually wants the maniacs in North Korea to have nuclear weapons. You could have made the same argument in the early 1930s - why isn't Germany allowed a strong military?

Why shouldn't those countries get sanctions too? Am I missing something? Why are they giving sanctions to Iran even though they are saying they are not trying to develop nuclear weapons?

North Korea does have sanctions on it - the reason being that it is a hostile nation. We don't want hostile nations to have nukes - when the USSR and China got them there wasn't anything we could do about it. And Iran has enriched Uranium to contain substantially more U-235 than is necessary for reactor grade fuel.

So in theory we could give sanctions on the CIA for torturing people even though they said they don't . My second point, it seems to me that saying Iran has nuclear weapons and we should invade is just a fake excuse to invade. Now the international atomic energy agency was not allowed to look around some parts of irans nuclear reactors but so what?

Here's a hypothetical: let's imagine that the British government built multiple nuclear facilities which it wouldn't let the international atomic energy agency investigate. It starts producing large amounts of highly enriched Uranium "for purely peaceful purposes", while building ballistic missiles. At the same time, the British Prime Minister denies that many Russians were killed in the holocaust, and says that Hitler had the right idea invading Russia. The British government also gives a massive amount of money to Chechnyan separatists. Would the Russians be justifiably worried by such behaviour? And would the left in this country defend the British government as eagerly as they defend the Iranian government?

Reply 26

Logi

Original post by Carrotcake18

With Assad falling they wont have Syria as an ally for much longer, and without Assad they can't send weapons to Hezbollah. So I suppose they don't have as much power as they used to. But lets not play the stupid game and pretend they're all innocent in this. They bully their own people more than anything.Sure they do, which is one of the reasons I despise their regime. However the same can be said of Saudi Arabia and the UAE etc and we're best of friends with them, so let's not pretend this is about their people.

Original post by Carrotcake18

Surrounded by American bases? Let's not forget that America basically got rid of Iran's #1 enemy in Iraq (Saddam Hussain) and are fighting the taliban which Iran hates. So even after the U.S. got rid of Iran's enemies they still fancy nukes? :s-smilie:

All those little stars are American bases. I'd say surrounded seems pretty accurate. As for being grateful that America rid Iraq of Hussain and made an attempt at the Taliban it's unlikely they're going to be grateful that one enemy has rid them of another.

Reply 27

Bakeryipad

Unfortunately for Iran, the enemy ( united states) of their enemy ( Taliban) is not the friend.

Reply 28

Carrotcake18

Original post by Logi

Sure they do, which is one of the reasons I despise their regime. However the same can be said of Saudi Arabia and the UAE etc and we're best of friends with them, so let's not pretend this is about their people.

Reply 29

Democracy

Original post by Bakeryipad

Iran's people are being punished by these sanctions. If Iran is really doing all this nuclear stuff for medicine then Iran's people are being punished because their government is trying to help them, and I they are producing weapons then Iran's people are being punished because their government is trying to protect them.

Iran's "government" does not try and "protect" its people, it is a brutal theocratic regime which stays in power by killing and torturing its opponents by the tens of thousands.

Also, if the regime was so determined to sort out Iran's healthcare system, it could start with the basics. Like actually investing in welfare and basic facilities like hospitals and emergency departments, and tackling Iran's chronic heroin addiction problem (instead of profiting from it). Fancy stuff like nuclear medicine can wait.

Tl;dr: Stop patronising us and stop brown-nosing those fascists.

Reply 30

Logi

Original post by Carrotcake18

Look, you certainly have a point about the U.S. having lots of bases in that region (no one can or is denying that). But let's face it, the U.S. is the strongest country and has military bases all over the world! Iran has to get used to this. Even if theyre not making nukes they still want to give the impression in order to get attention, they can't stand the fact that other countries are stronger.It's not that they mind other countries being stronger but they do mind when those strong countries give orders on how to run their country in order to benefit the strong country. The idea that they'll be left in peace if they just "shut the f up" is complete *******s.

I hope no one takes this as me supporting the Iranian regime or their actions. I don't want them to have nukes, the fewer countries with them the better as far as I'm concerned. I'd love to see the Iranian regime fall too but I don't have much hopes of it being replaced by anything better (remember this current regime is the result of Americas last attempt at interfering) and I certainly don't think anything better will come if you bomb the **** out of them. That will only unite people against the West. What I really dislike is people painting it as a story of good vs evil when it's simply not. We don't want them having nukes and we're bigger and more powerful so we'll stop them - that's fine, but let's not pretend that we're the good guys here because that's a load of crap too.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 31

Carrotcake18

Original post by Logi

It's not that they mind other countries being stronger but they do mind when those strong countries give orders on how to run their country in order to benefit the strong country. The idea that they'll be left in peace if they just "shut the f up" is complete *******s.

I hope no one takes this as me supporting the Iranian regime or their actions. I don't want them to have nukes, the fewer countries with them the better as far as I'm concerned. I'd love to see the Iranian regime fall too but I don't have much hopes of it being replaced by anything better (remember this current regime is the result of Americas last attempt at interfering) and I certainly don't think anything better will come if you bomb the **** out of them. That will only unite people against the West. What I really dislike is people painting it as a story of good vs evil when it's simply not. We don't want them having nukes and we're bigger and more powerful so we'll stop them - that's fine, but let's not pretend that we're the good guys here because that's a load of crap too.

Yeah I agree and I hope too that the lying and oppressive regime will fall without any military intervention. :crossedf:

Reply 32

Angry Spartan

Nuclear weapons are diplomatic weapons. Even the government of Iran I think you'd find would hesitate about thinking of using one that's not a last resort because the response would be utter annihilation of that state and area.

Pakistan have nukes. India have nukes. North Korea has them too, and yet none of them three have attempted to use one.

Reply 33

KingKiller

when was the last time Iran started a war? Its just a power struggle, Israel wants to be the big boy in the area and them being the only country in the area with nukes helps alot and of course the usa is run by zionist so its no wonder they will support the Israelis.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 34

KingKiller

Original post by Carrotcake18

In my other posts ive made it clear that these countries hate Iran. But lets not forget that these Arab countries dont have nuclear weapons or even the type of weapons Iran has (so in this case we can't argue 'ohh why should they have nukes and not Iran'). Iran is nothing but a bully in that region so I can't really blame these sunni countries for asking the U.S. for help :s-smilie:

Anyway there aren't really right or wrong answers and we'll just have to wait and see what happens :rolleyes:

IMAO!!! please do explain further.

Reply 35

anarchism101

Original post by Carrotcake18

They bully their own people more than anything.

So do lots of countries. It doesn't make them a threat to anyone else. What relevance does how oppressive the Iranian government is have to whether they can have nukes or not?

Saddam Hussein was the USA's client until the First Gulf War precisely because he invaded Iran for them. Why should Iran be grateful to the US for getting rid of an enemy that the US created in the first place?

As for the Taliban, yes they have a common enemy there. They had a common enemy in the pro-Soviet Afghan government during the 1980s too, didn't make a difference there, so why should it now?

Reply 36

Bakeryipad

I would like to thank everyone for responding to my questions and enlighting me on the topic. Thanks for the participation.

Reply 37

unclej

have we learned nothing from Iraq?
Governments DO lie to justify war.

Reply 38

squishy123

Original post by rcummins1

Because the Iranian's are absolutely crazy? Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah have both PUBLICLY stated that they want to wipe the state of Israel off the face of the map...sure they may only be trying to drum up political support, but I'd rather the western world be hypocritical over who can have nukes and who can't, rather than let these lunatics have some.