The Student Room Group

Goodbye to the GCSE

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Reply 40
Original post by clumsybear
*Pakistani
Only an idiot would refer to himself otherwise.

Wow I really feel for the generations to come. Sure GCSEs weren't the hardest exams in the world but completely scrapping the system and bringing in something which will favour a certain group in the student population, trebling tuition fees, cutting back EMA, allowing people who have no knowledge of the education system to start running schools... just wow.


What is the first bolded point referring to? And as for the second, that's been happening for ages :tongue:
Reply 41
Original post by carpe diem 123
I would like to see Mr Gove sit the GCSE english course and see how well he does. I'm sure everyone over 40 is "excellent" in Point Evidence Analysis and writing so furiously that you get paper burn on the side of your hand.


You do know that English has become far easier in the last few years?
The last results issued in 2010 showed the UK fell from 17th to 25th for reading, 24th to 28th for maths and 14th to 16th in science.
Source.

So yes, he could easily sit the exam and do well.

Original post by Helen95
Having one exam at the end of the course as opposed to several modules could either improve grades, as students will have an understanding of the whole course as opposed to sections of it, or could make grades worse given there'll be more to remember in the space of one exam. Either way, it's still probably going to result in more tweaking of grade boundaries, making it harder to compare year-on-year results...


Don't confuse this change with making results better. If anything we can guarantee that results will crash horribly as this is an attempt to bring up the level of education to a world class standard (see source above), thus everyone who has had an easy ride with the recent GCSEs will be in for a shock when the exams become far harder.
Also the point of this is to have one exam board so grade boundaries will be very easy to adjust in order to compensate for exams that are too easy or hard, yet the quality of the exams will remain high.

However my concern is that most teachers currently working in schools will not be of a high enough calibre to teach these courses as many are not fit to teach the current GCSEs.
Reply 42
Original post by Hopple
What is the first bolded point referring to? And as for the second, that's been happening for ages :tongue:



Private school educated students.
Reply 43
Original post by clumsybear
Private school educated students.


Does it? :s-smilie: Well, any more than it always has, anyway. Aren't they just going to put all the exams at the end of the year with probably some changes to the syllabus, so the only advantage private schoolers have is the better teaching which they've had all along and is (sort of) taken into account by universities anyway?
Yes the education system in the UK may need some amending but slipping back into old ways is not the way of doing it and neither is re introducing an 'O level style but not O level, kind of two-tier system'. I like the idea of an IB style qualification; level playing field and international. Something which will not only focuses on traditional subjects and logical/linguistic way of learning but also something that stimulates and rewards creativity as well.

However, I'm not against end of year exams, in fact I think it'll bring more focus back and it'll be easier to understand topics as a whole as you'll have a longer time to digest them.
Reply 45
Original post by Hopple
Does it? :s-smilie: Well, any more than it always has, anyway. Aren't they just going to put all the exams at the end of the year with probably some changes to the syllabus, so the only advantage private schoolers have is the better teaching which they've had all along and is (sort of) taken into account by universities anyway?


Yes and no. Currently everyone does the same GCSEs exams either higher or foundation, but there is still hope for state educated students to get top marks good grades etc, even if they're not geniuses, they can still get decent grades and have a hope of going to decent university.

The new plan is to have two tiers of exams, one like you mentioned at the end of the two year three hour exams. Everyone else deemed 'stupid' has to sit and easier exam.

You can kind of see who this will benefit.
Reply 46
Original post by clumsybear
Yes and no. Currently everyone does the same GCSEs exams either higher or foundation, but there is still hope for state educated students to get top marks good grades etc, even if they're not geniuses, they can still get decent grades and have a hope of going to decent university.

The new plan is to have two tiers of exams, one like you mentioned at the end of the two year three hour exams. Everyone else deemed 'stupid' has to sit and easier exam.

You can kind of see who this will benefit.


How does that help them? We already stream in state schools so having two syllabi to teach different classes wouldn't be difficult, unless a state school was particularly small and didn't have enough kids able to do the hard exam. Actually, it might even help if schools were obliged to do classes for the hard exam as well if they had the students, and received extra funding for doing so. The exam system proposed doesn't itself have unsurmountable problems, and we all know that the current system is making it more and more difficult to differentiate between students which does need to be fixed, and the sooner the better.
Reply 47
Original post by Hopple
How does that help them? We already stream in state schools so having two syllabi to teach different classes wouldn't be difficult, unless a state school was particularly small and didn't have enough kids able to do the hard exam. Actually, it might even help if schools were obliged to do classes for the hard exam as well if they had the students, and received extra funding for doing so. The exam system proposed doesn't itself have unsurmountable problems, and we all know that the current system is making it more and more difficult to differentiate between students which does need to be fixed, and the sooner the better.


No you're right and I agree that there do need to be changes to the way GCSEs are examined, but not the way this government is proposing.

Say for students who do the lower tier exam, what position will that leave them in for A-Levels? Obviously if the govt. are thinking of more rigorous testing for the higher tier, those students will be better off, but how will the lower tier students cope? Would they even be allowed to sit A-Level exams? What about applying to universities? Would unis like Oxbridge accept students with the lower tier exams? We'd essentially be writing someone off at an early age before they'd even entered adult life and I don't think it's particularly fair.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 48
Dear Michael Gove, please do a GCSE set to the current standard before making it harder. I'm sure then you will be able to understand what it's like having to write a paragraph about electricity conduction just for 2 marks.
Reply 49
Original post by clumsybear
No you're right and I agree that there do need to be changes to the way GCSEs are examined, but not the way this government is proposing.

Say for students who do the lower tier exam, what position will that leave them in for A-Levels? Obviously if the govt. are thinking of more rigorous testing for the higher tier, those students will be better off, but how will the lower tier students cope? Would they even be allowed to sit A-Level exams? What about applying to universities? Would unis like Oxbridge accept students with the lower tier exams? We'd essentially be writing someone off at an early age before they'd even entered adult life and I don't think it's particularly fair.


It's year 10 and 11, when they'll probably already know if they want to go to university or not, and maybe even narrowed down what what subjects they might do (and hence what A Levels they're aiming for, and thus which GCSEs to prioritise). It isn't too early to put them on different syllabi, especially as schools have been offering things like GNVQs for years (unless you argue it's too early already, which I can understand).

The people who lose out with this are students who are weak at a subject that they'd improve enough at during those two years at GCSE and then go on to study it at university. Chances are though, you'll end up in a job that just wants "a degree, 2:1 or higher, any subject" so wouldn't be hurting anyone. They aren't proposing to have grammar schools where the less able kids are frozen out in all subjects, are they? :s-smilie:
Reply 50
i note that Nick Clegg has forced a political manouver. The Next General Election is 2015 (the year of the proposed change). Is he cynically hoping for a change of Government to Labour so that the proposed change to a different exam will be dropped like a HOT potato?
Reply 51
Original post by acer0951
Dear Michael Gove, please do a GCSE set to the current standard before making it harder. I'm sure then you will be able to understand what it's like having to write a paragraph about electricity conduction just for 2 marks.


:giggle:
"The last results issued in 2010 showed the UK fell from 17th to 25th for reading, 24th to 28th for maths and 14th to 16th in science."

I think he could quite easily sit the exams and do well in them :colondollar:
Original post by clumsybear
Yes and no. Currently everyone does the same GCSEs exams either higher or foundation, but there is still hope for state educated students to get top marks good grades etc, even if they're not geniuses, they can still get decent grades and have a hope of going to decent university.

The new plan is to have two tiers of exams, one like you mentioned at the end of the two year three hour exams. Everyone else deemed 'stupid' has to sit and easier exam.

You can kind of see who this will benefit.


Nick Clegg intervened and made sure that that part of the plan was dropped. Everyone will sit the same exam: But after a political row broke out with the Liberal Democrats, who rejected the possibility of a system which they said "left a large number of children behind at a relatively young age", Mr Gove said he did not want to see a "two-tier system". This kind of compromise is why the Lib Dems being in government is such a good thing, but, unfortunately, the anti-Clegg brigade generally doesn't seem to actually read the news too much these days.

Trebling tuition fees doesn't advantage or disadvantage any particular group more than anyone else. It doesn't change the amount of money you have to pay when at university, so class/school type/wealth doesn't come into it: it just means that you pay what is essentially a 'graduate tax' for a longer period of time. The new requirement for rigorous HE access arrangements and increase of the threshold from 20k to 25k before you start paying it back actually works in the favour of poorer students/graduates.

Cutting EMA was maybe harmful but the system definitely needed reform. I spent mine on a school trip to the USA: a nice thing for me that I certainly wasn't going to turn down, but I don't think the government should really subsidise students' expensive holidays and mobile phones. A more focused scheme that gets more money where it's really needed would have been a great replacement but it's a shame the "National Scholarships" don't seem to be up to scratch.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 53
couple of months ago did my A2 2 1/2 hour exam and trust me it goes very quick, so a 3hour exam wont be that bad, if you've revised alot you will have a lot to say and even wish you had more time
Reply 54
I actually cannot believe a moderator deleted my comment about Indian and Chinese students smashing every other race in every exam. I merely stated a known fact, it's not offensive to anyone.
Original post by Lollyage
I actually cannot believe a moderator deleted my comment about Indian and Chinese students smashing every other race in every exam. I merely stated a known fact, it's not offensive to anyone.


Probably because they also deleted the post you quoted..
So what will this mean for people that already have GCSE's? Nothing?
Original post by Himynameskiefer
So what will this mean for people that already have GCSE's? Nothing?


Nothing at all.
Multiple choice unit 1 biology: why did Gove decide to scrap GCSES?

a)He is deluded
b) No other answer is applicable
Original post by Jimbo1234
You do know that English has become far easier in the last few years?
Source.

So yes, he could easily sit the exam and do well.



Don't confuse this change with making results better. If anything we can guarantee that results will crash horribly as this is an attempt to bring up the level of education to a world class standard (see source above), thus everyone who has had an easy ride with the recent GCSEs will be in for a shock when the exams become far harder.
Also the point of this is to have one exam board so grade boundaries will be very easy to adjust in order to compensate for exams that are too easy or hard, yet the quality of the exams will remain high.

However my concern is that most teachers currently working in schools will not be of a high enough calibre to teach these courses as many are not fit to teach the current GCSEs.


Stupid sentence is stupid.

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