[Aspiringlawstudent]

Two female police officers have died after being shot while on routine patrol in Manchester, the force has confirmed.

The two unarmed WPCs were in the Mottram district of Greater Manchester when they were gunned down.

Shortly after the incident Dale Cregan, 29, who was being sought in connection with a gun and grenade attack in the city, walked into a police station and was arrested on suspcion of murder.

It is understood that a number of shots were fired during the incident and a grenade was also detonated.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-arrested.html





It is doubtless the case that many people will wonder again if it is time that the police were routinely armed in response to this tragic incident; what do you think?

[Oh my Ms. Coffey]

More tasers and dogs.

[unclej]

This is a mighty shame but I think arming the police would result in the deaths of more innocent people

[Jack93o]

no

this was a rare one-off event

[YMLT]

No.

Guns are designed to kill people. That's not in a policeman's job description.

[Jackso]

Considering most criminals aren't afraid of the police they should definitely do something - they're seen as a joke most of the time, at least in my experience. I'm not sure about guns, though.

[Jackso]

(Original post by Jack93o)
no

this was a rare one-off event

That cost two people their lives. More precautions should be taken.

[Aspiringlawstudent]

(Original post by YMLT)
No.

Guns are designed to kill people. That's not in a policeman's job description.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather the police kill people than allow criminals to run rampant throughout our cities. If it's a choice between the police shooting dangerous individuals or dangerous individuals potentially harming innocent citizens, I would choose the former in an instant.

[ThatPerson]

What I don't understand is, if the suspect was clearly armed and very likely to cause harm, why was an unarmed patrol sent?

Generally I want police to be armed with non-lethal weapons, however the current selection of tasers and rubber bullets can still be lethal if used at short range or if the person has a heart condition.

[Aspiringlawstudent]

(Original post by Jack93o)
no

this was a rare one-off event

Unfortunately, this is not at all a 'rare one-off event'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...e_line_of_duty

That list doesn't even include the hundreds of officers killed during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

[YMLT]

(Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
I don't know about you, but I'd rather the police kill people than allow criminals to run rampant throughout our cities. If it's a choice between the police shooting dangerous individuals or dangerous individuals potentially harming innocent citizens, I would choose the former in an instant.

Simple answer is to put more police on the street, not more weapons.

[Aspiringlawstudent]

(Original post by ThatPerson)
What I don't understand is, if the suspect was clearly armed and very likely to cause harm, why was an unarmed patrol sent?

Generally I want police to be armed with non-lethal weapons, however the current selection of tasers and rubber bullets can still be lethal if used at short range or if the person has a heart condition.

So far I've heard that they didn't know what the situation was, and it took place during a routine patrol during which they 'stumbled across' the man in question.

[Aspiringlawstudent]

(Original post by YMLT)
Simple answer is to put more police on the street, not more weapons.

How does putting more police on the street help if they're neutered by lack of equipment?

We need a more effective police force, not a bigger police force.

[bestofyou]

(Original post by unclej)
This is a mighty shame but I think arming the police would result in the deaths of more innocent people

Yeah, innocent people are gunned down in NI everyday since the power-sharing government came in.

(Original post by Jackso)
That cost two people their lives. More precautions should be taken.

The police officer that was shot in NI in 2008 was armed. It never saved his life. Chances are these officers would have received the same fate even if they had a RPG ready to fire.

The problem here was police intelligence, not a standard officer's equipment.

(Original post by GR3YFOXXX)
All cops are armed in Northern Ireland. It has lead to more than a few controversial incidents.

Yes, but that was back when the RUC was (and always will be) as good as a legit loyalist paramilitary that hated catholics.

Name me one case when an innocent person was killed by the PSNI in the 21st Century.

(Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
Unfortunately, this is not at all a 'rare one-off event'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...e_line_of_duty

That list doesn't even include the hundreds of officers killed during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

You can hardly count the ones killed in NI. For a start, they were armed, so how does this support your argument to arm police?

The RUC was a sectarian police force that was no more than a sectarian extension or even 'military' wing belonging to a sectarian government that hated Catholics. If they had treated the population of NI as equals, there is a good chance the troubles would never have even started let alone there being a chance they would have been so high up on the the republican's list of target groups.

[GR3YFOXXX]

All cops are armed in Northern Ireland. It has lead to more than a few controversial incidents.

[johndoranglasgow]

Arming the police would be a very serious decision, with major consequences for a lot of people. It's really tragic that those two police officers have died but if the decision to arm the police has to be taken, it shouldn't be made on the back of some emotional event like this one.

[Jackso]

(Original post by YMLT)
Simple answer is to put more police on the street, not more weapons.

That isn't a simple answer at all. In fact, it would barely change anything - they'd still be defenseless and these two would still be dead.

[YMLT]

(Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
How does putting more police on the street help if they're neutered by lack of equipment?

We need a more effective police force, not a bigger police force.

Offer them more training then.

A police officer is not suddenly more effective just because they've got the ability to shoot someone.

[fudgesundae]

(Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
I don't know about you, but I'd rather the police kill people than allow criminals to run rampant throughout our cities.

But there aren't criminals running rampant through our cities. If incidents like this became more common then it would definitely be worth thinking about, but doing so now would simply be an overreaction to a tragic incident.

One of the most important points to consider is that the vast majority of Officers do not want to be armed. I believe there was a survey of 40000+ and 80% of them were opposed to the idea.

(Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
Unfortunately, this is not at all a 'rare one-off event'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...e_line_of_duty

That list doesn't even include the hundreds of officers killed during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

That's 5 officers shot in the last 17 years.

[Aspiringlawstudent]

(Original post by YMLT)
Offer them more training then.

A police officer is suddenly more effective just because they've got the ability to shoot someone.

Again, I must question how training is going to help you when you're hiding behind a patrol car with a criminal shooting at you from across the street and you can't return fire.