[prog2djent]

...

[Variations]

Why do you support him may I ask?

[Annoying-Mouse]

You're an idiot. How about you do the honest thing and admit that you don't know what the Syrian public opinion is? There's no (reliable) polling that's been done. A couple of videos show nothing. You don't always have to pick sides. You're a white dude from a ****ing English village for goodness sake, you're as removed from the conflict as can be yet you still feel the need to pick a side. Da *** is wrong with you.

[prog2djent]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
You're an idiot. How about you do the honest thing and admit that you don't know what the Syrian public opinion is? There's no (reliable) polling that's been done. A couple of videos show nothing. You don't always have to pick sides. You're a white dude from a ****ing English village for goodness sake, you're as removed from the conflict as can be yet you still feel the need to pick a side. Da *** is wrong with you.

Do you just follow my threads about?

Do I know what the Syrian public opinion is? No, but I bet they don't want the alternative that is offered by the current opposition.

And I am picking sides on this Issue, I'd rather see a Assad in power with heavy refors, over an Islamist state like other Arab nations that saw an overthrow, or what is most likely now, a faux caliphate and lots of sectarian violence.

And yes I am very removed from the conflict, but everybody is removed from everything that isn't in the UK. Basically, you don't like it that I hate Pious Muslims, which are almost always sunni-salafi fanatics these days, more than I hate whatever the Islamic version of a "Sunday Christian" is. You are saying I shouldn't have an opinion about who should rule Syria, guess that mean you and I shouldn't have an opinion about the US president or the Egyptian one.

Edit: A couple of videos? It looks like every major european nations, America and Australia have had (sometime multiple) pro assad demo's much more than anti-assad ones, what does that tell us about how Syrian Expats feel? What about the hundreds of thousands that have come out in support of Assad (only a few times) in Syria, or the pro assad demo's that seem to crop up every week in Syria.

Don't you ever think about what the oposition is composed of? Sure Assad has done some real bad ****, but it looks like Secular syrians, moderates, even moderate sunni's (I recall that the majority of the Syrian army is sunni), christians, druze, Shi'as, Alawi's and Syrian Jews are rallying behind assad because they know that the opostion is either

Crazy international socialists who will support anything that is against the state.
Islamist FSA
Defensive Jihadist Mujahideen.
Offensive Jihadist Mujahideen.
Al-Qaeda in Iraq and Al-Nusra (Takfiris)

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by prog2djent)
Do you just follow my threads about?

Do I know what the Syrian public opinion is? No, but I bet they don't want the alternative that is offered by the current opposition.

And I am picking sides on this Issue, I'd rather see a Assad in power with heavy refors, over an Islamist state like other Arab nations that saw an overthrow, or what is most likely now, a faux caliphate and lots of sectarian violence.

And yes I am very removed from the conflict, but everybody is removed from everything that isn't in the UK. Basically, you don't like it that I hate Pious Muslims, which are almost always sunni-salafi fanatics these days, more than I hate whatever the Islamic version of a "Sunday Christian" is. You are saying I shouldn't have an opinion about who should rule Syria, guess that mean you and I shouldn't have an opinion about the US president or the Egyptian one.

Edit: A couple of videos? It looks like every major european nations, America and Australia have had (sometime multiple) pro assad demo's much more than anti-assad ones, what does that tell us about how Syrian Expats feel? What about the hundreds of thousands that have come out in support of Assad (only a few times) in Syria, or the pro assad demo's that seem to crop up every week in Syria.

Don't you ever think about what the oposition is composed of? Sure Assad has done some real bad ****, but it looks like Secular syrians, moderates, even moderate sunni's (I recall that the majority of the Syrian army is sunni), christians, druze, Shi'as, Alawi's and Syrian Jews are rallying behind assad because they know that the opostion is either

Crazy international socialists who will support anything that is against the state.
Islamist FSA
Defensive Jihadist Mujahideen.
Offensive Jihadist Mujahideen.
Al-Qaeda in Iraq and Al-Nusra (Takfiris)

Yeah that's the reason why I'm posting not because it's 1am and I'm bored and your thread was top in N&C forum. I'm not saying don't have an opinion, I'm saying there's no need to form an opinion when you don't have the tools needed to do so. If you were Syrian or something, I could understand why you have a need to have an opinion because your affected. But, your removed thus can't see why you get all emotional over this topic.

That doesn't tell us much because Syria is a nation of 20+ Million. Of course Assad has supporters thus there is always going to be pro-Assad rallies. 30% of people being for and 70% against could explain for example why you see many groups protesting, that's a large sum of people. It could also be 70-30 vice versa and it would explain why we see so many anti-assad as well. How about providing evidence of your claim regarding the opposition? There are multiple groups within the coalition. Have you done an analysis with all SNC's membership to show that the Islamist have a stronghold? No. There's no reason to suspect that Syria will end up as an Islamic state if the opposition get in power.

It's all speculation. You're removed, use that to your advantage and stop investing yourself with a cause and start observing objectively and evaluating rationally.

[milesofsea]

Tell me OP - and try to imagine this scenario even if you're not personally convinced - would you support an Islamic government in Syria if they were fairly elected by the population majority? Or would you still choose to support a secular Bashir Al Assad, however dictatorial?

[cl_steele]

It must be said though that there is a benefit to these dictators... think of it this way, were there any huge problems in Iraq and Libya when their respective dictators were in power? Not really what has 'democracy' done for them? Its destroyed them. What do you think is going to happen to Syria if these errr 'freedom fighters' win? Once again you'll have a lot of young unemployed men armed to the teeth who have nothing better to do but continue shootingat each other... this will just turn out to be another Lebanon.

[milesofsea]

(Original post by cl_steele)
It must be said though that there is a benefit to these dictators... think of it this way, were there any huge problems in Iraq and Libya when their respective dictators were in power? Not really what has 'democracy' done for them? Its destroyed them. What do you think is going to happen to Syria if these errr 'freedom fighters' win? Once again you'll have a lot of young unemployed men armed to the teeth who have nothing better to do but continue shootingat each other... this will just turn out to be another Lebanon.

From the perspective of the people who actually lived under the dictators, yes there were problems. For us, we were better off when the dictators were in power (ie oppressing their people, the fundamentalists among them). So of course you're going to see it that way.

[cl_steele]

(Original post by milesofsea)
From the perspective of the people who actually lived under the dictators, yes there were problems. For us, we were better off when the dictators were in power (ie oppressing their people, the fundamentalists among them). So of course you're going to see it that way.

Do humour me how lacking a few freedoms is infinitely worse than having your country turned into a war zone where you cant go to pray or pick up your damn potatoes without the fear of being blown to pieces. Which would you rather live in? I was speaking to a nice fellow from Iraq who i was working with a couple of weeks ago who said that whilst things were less than perfect under Sadam at least it was peaceful, unlike now where the entire place has gone to pot.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by cl_steele)
It must be said though that there is a benefit to these dictators... think of it this way, were there any huge problems in Iraq and Libya when their respective dictators were in power? Not really what has 'democracy' done for them? Its destroyed them. What do you think is going to happen to Syria if these errr 'freedom fighters' win? Once again you'll have a lot of young unemployed men armed to the teeth who have nothing better to do but continue shootingat each other... this will just turn out to be another Lebanon.

Are you that unaware of what Saadam did to Kurds and Shias? Can't think of much Assad before (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Syria here's a link though but they're not extreme human rights violations but still concerning) uprising but I know his father did some terrible **** and Assad is currently stopping his people from getting their voices heard, he wasn't democratically elected and committing some terrible **** to make sure he comes out on top.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by cl_steele)
Do humour me how lacking a few freedoms is infinitely worse than having your country turned into a war zone where you cant go to pray or pick up your damn potatoes without the fear of being blown to pieces. Which would you rather live in? I was speaking to a nice fellow from Iraq who i was working with a couple of weeks ago who said that whilst things were less than perfect under Sadam at least it was peaceful, unlike now where the entire place has gone to pot.

Revolutions are rarely peaceful. They always come at a cost. But, the cost is short-term in comparison to long-term gain for not only you but future generations. You may take right to vote for granted but it's an important right. Civil rights movement involved a lot of rioting and violence but now look at what he has done for African-Americans.

[cl_steele]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Are you that unaware of what Saadam did to Kurds and Shias? Can't think of much Assad before (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Syria here's a link though but they're not extreme human rights violations but still concerning) uprising but I know his father did some terrible **** and Assad is currently stopping his people from getting their voices heard, he wasn't democratically elected and committing some terrible **** to make sure he comes out on top.

Im perfectly aware of what he did to them but compared to what the insurgency have done its a small drop in a very large sea, remind me again how many hundreds of thousands have been killed/injured/displaced in the civil war?
I never said they were nice people, i merely said they did a damn good job of keeping the peace.
Oh yes its undeniable his dad was a rather nasty piece of work but as for Assad denying his people a say, who can say if thats true or not? Can anyone say with any certainty if the rebels are representing a majority or not? In which case are they not in the wrong just as much as he is? Meh isnt that just an age old story throughout history though, to single out Assad for such crimes is somewhat hypocritcal of all concerned considering the histories of other countries...

[BisherDeirki]

(Original post by prog2djent)
Do you just follow my threads about?

Do I know what the Syrian public opinion is? No, but I bet they don't want the alternative that is offered by the current opposition.

I do know what the Syrian public opinion is. And those few videos showing pro-regime demonstrations are ridiculous. I bet half of the atendees are either Iranian or Pakis. If you want to show videos, I can trampede you with links on YouTube showing thousands, and millions when combined, calling for the downfall of the regime.

The UN call for a unified opposition, but what good does this do if we want a democracy. We don't want one party to rule us again, we want some diversity.

[cl_steele]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Revolutions are rarely peaceful. They always come at a cost. But, the cost is short-term in comparison to long-term gain for not only you but future generations. You may take right to vote for granted but it's an important right. Civil rights movement involved a lot of rioting and violence but now look at what he has done for African-Americans.

What is this long term gain for Iraq then ? Its been nearly a decade since Saddam was toppled and Iraq hasnt improved much has it, its gone from one of the most stable and prosperous nations in western Asia to one giant cluster**** with crime rampant and bombings the norm...

Who said i took the right to vote for granted? Although its fairly academic considering it doesnt make a difference in this delightful system we have... its either labour or tory and to be perfectly honest theyre more or less the same anyway...
May i ask how youre drawing comparisons between the implosion of Iraq and the civil rights movement in the states?

[BisherDeirki]

(Original post by cl_steele)
Im perfectly aware of what he did to them but compared to what the insurgency have done its a small drop in a very large sea, remind me again how many hundreds of thousands have been killed/injured/displaced in the civil war?
I never said they were nice people, i merely said they did a damn good job of keeping the peace.
Oh yes its undeniable his dad was a rather nasty piece of work but as for Assad denying his people a say, who can say if thats true or not? Can anyone say with any certainty if the rebels are representing a majority or not?

You must be joking. Compared to what the insurgency did, its a small drop in the sea? You must mean the opposite, for sure. And may I remind you that all those hundreds of thousands displaced were displaced due to the shelling by regime forces on industrial areas. Who else has tanks? Who else has artillery? Who else has warplanes? Get your facts straight before you freaking make a statement. I live here.

And believe me, believe me the rebels represent the vast, vast, vast majority. They are not without their mistakes I admit, but as you said earlier, they are like a drop in a sea comparatively. This is not an insurgency, neither a civil war, this is a revolution.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by cl_steele)
Im perfectly aware of what he did to them but compared to what the insurgency have done its a small drop in a very large sea, remind me again how many hundreds of thousands have been killed/injured/displaced in the civil war?
I never said they were nice people, i merely said they did a damn good job of keeping the peace.
Oh yes its undeniable his dad was a rather nasty piece of work but as for Assad denying his people a say, who can say if thats true or not? Can anyone say with any certainty if the rebels are representing a majority or not? In which case are they not in the wrong just as much as he is? Meh isnt that just an age old story throughout history though, to single out Assad for such crimes is somewhat hypocritcal of all concerned considering the histories of other countries...

Not more than one hundred thousand brah. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ And this is over 10 years, Saadam could match this figure in 3 years (Al-Anfal Campaign).

No they didn't, what are you smoking? They kept the peace through slaughtering, great job that isn't it. Like saying a parent is doing a good job making their child non-disobedient because they punch their kids in the face.

If Assad believed he had majority support, why not do a fair election huh? You're forgetting he isn't democratically elected. Thus, he is denying his people their voices to be heard.

[cl_steele]

(Original post by BisherDeirki)
You must be joking. Compared to what the insurgency did, its a small drop in the sea? You must mean the opposite, for sure. And may I remind you that all those hundreds of thousands displaced were displaced due to the shelling by regime forces on industrial areas. Who else has tanks? Who else has artillery? Who else has warplanes? Get your facts straight before you freaking make a statement. I live here.

And believe me, believe me the rebels represent the vast, vast, vast majority. They are not without their mistakes I admit, but as you said earlier, they are like a drop in a sea comparatively. This is not an insurgency, neither a civil war, this is a revolution.

You do realise that statement was about Iraq right...?

And how do you know this? No one has asked the syrian people what they want, some have come out in support of the rebels,some for Assad how can you tell what the majority want?

[Bill_Gates]

Long live Mr Assad! a fallen regime is a more dangerous aspect to human welfare look at Libya, Iraq, Egypt. Western governments only want one thing they dont care for the people.

[BisherDeirki]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Revolutions are rarely peaceful. They always come at a cost. But, the cost is short-term in comparison to long-term gain for not only you but future generations. You may take right to vote for granted but it's an important right. Civil rights movement involved a lot of rioting and violence but now look at what he has done for African-Americans.

Exactly. Had there been no revolution, Syrians would have been living in poverty and shame. The whole income of Syria goes either to the military, or it is stolen through corruption to the ruling family and their relatives. Tell me now please, in which country in the world does an anaesthetic doctor, who has studied for years and worked his ass off for the last decade earn only 13000 Syrian pounds a month. Which is the equivalent of 200 US dollars a month. If you do not believe me, you can ask some one else who lives here. He will tell you. This is only one (a minor, minor) of the injustices that have occured during their rule of Syria which has lasted mire than 40 years.

Things are bad now. But give the revolution 2 years from its victory, and Syria will rise up again. We have scholars, we don't have religious extremism, we have an educated people (more Syrian educated people living outside Syria thanks to no jobs mostly in France, UK and especially in the US and Canada). We have potential.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by cl_steele)
What is this long term gain for Iraq then ? Its been nearly a decade since Saddam was toppled and Iraq hasnt improved much has it, its gone from one of the most stable and prosperous nations in western Asia to one giant cluster**** with crime rampant and bombings the norm...

Who said i took the right to vote for granted? Although its fairly academic considering it doesnt make a difference in this delightful system we have... its either labour or tory and to be perfectly honest theyre more or less the same anyway...
May i ask how youre drawing comparisons between the implosion of Iraq and the civil rights movement in the states?

You do realize America just withdraw 9-10 months ago, right? Iraqi's economy is looking promising and the political system despite being corrupt is improving. You can't expect change to happen over night, especially in a country like Iraq which doesn't exactly have a referential point of when it was a democracy. Give it another 10-15 years then we can truly judge the outcome.

They are different, just because they difference isn't as big as the difference between right-libertarians and socialist doesn't make it any more different. Pretty much every developed countries has two major parties one which lies on the center-left and one which lies on the center-right from Sweden to Germany to America to France to us. The closing on their difference is a reflection of our progress.