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Is it moral that Muslims demand respect for their religion through violence??

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    No person, group or belief has the right to make such a demand. In a reasonable society respect can be deserved, earned and even expected, but it may never be a demand. It does not matter if someone burns a Koran, draws a cartoon, or makes a movie which insults Islam. Fundamentalist Islamic communities around the world will likely respond with some form of violence. These movements will justify their actions by claiming that they are rising up in defense of their beliefs. That assertion is wrong due to one crucial misconception that Islamic culture has failed to comprehend. Tolerance and respect are not the same. When a people reacts against intolerance then they are doing so in defense of their beliefs. When a people react against disrespect they are doing so in defense of their ego. One of those is a just cause and the other is not.

    When a person, group or belief demands respect with the threat of violence, they have failed to be worthy of the very demands they make.
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    Just wondering, is this monologue in response to the thread started earlier today by this user:

    (Original post by Strawman)
    Sorry, but I think we should do whatever fundamentalist Muslims demand. Sorry again. Sorry.

    I think we should show tolerance by never criticizing Islam, and only ever saying nice things about it. If not, we deserve everything we get. Again, sorry.
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    Yeah, but shouldn't you respect all religions?

    Personally, I am a Muslim and the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), has taught us to respect and tolerate different religions etc... So I respect/tolerate other religions. I believe Islam has become a scapegoat to the media as there is always something negative about it on the news etc... It saddens me to think that some people-(notice I did say "some)- think it's alright to bash Islam and not expect a huge outcry. It's a very naive way of thinking as us Muslims hold the prophet/Allah on a higher status then our own parents. Can you see how big of a deal it is for us? I am not saying murdering people etc... Is right. It's not right at all; I am not trying to justify the actions of some misguided Muslims but I want you to see why they act the way they act when people criticize or disrespect something that is very personal and sacred to them.

    The koran is sacred to us, and I think what's morally right is to not deface it etc... For the sake of tolerance and respect. You wouldn't see me going around defacing the bible or any other sacred text for a religion; I know it's morally wrong and extremely hurtful to them. I despise the idiotic way of thinking that some people label Islam as a violent/extremist religion due to the few bad Muslims that are misguided. There are good and bad people in every religion; you shouldn't let the people define the religion! So why can't we all just get along, huh? Also, be a little more open minded and don't listen to the garbage propaganda feeds you.

    P.S- Muslims do not demand respect. The only reason why some Muslims go around acting like they do is because of the constant attack the media/some ignorant people throw at us. No other religions are treated like that. How do you think it feels when I go out of my house wearing hijab and I just start getting abused? Society has made it alright for people to disrespect and be intolerant towards Islam but for other religions it's immoral/wrong to do that.

    Be more open minded and see stuff from other people's perspective. As bullying someone because of their faith is just immoral and I would never, ever, ever bully someone due to their religion.
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    (Original post by TheWizardOfOz)
    Yeah, but shouldn't you respect all religions?

    Personally, I am a Muslim and the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), has taught us to respect and tolerate different religions etc... So I respect/tolerate other religions. I believe Islam has become a scapegoat to the media as there is always something negative about it on the news etc... It saddens me to think that some people-(notice I did say "some)- think it's alright to bash Islam and not expect a huge outcry. It's a very naive way of thinking as us Muslims hold the prophet/Allah on a higher status then our own parents. Can you see how big of a deal it is for us? I am not saying murdering people etc... Is right. It's not right at all; I am not trying to justify the actions of some misguided Muslims but I want you to see why they act the way they act when people criticize or disrespect something that is very personal and sacred to them.

    The koran is sacred to us, and I think what's morally right is to not deface it etc... For the sake of tolerance and respect. You wouldn't see me going around defacing the bible or any other sacred text for a religion; I know it's morally wrong and extremely hurtful to them. I despise the idiotic way of thinking that some people label Islam as a violent/extremist religion due to the few bad Muslims that are misguided. There are good and bad people in every religion; you shouldn't let the people define the religion! So why can't we all just get along, huh? Also, be a little more open minded and don't listen to the garbage propaganda feeds you.

    P.S- Muslims do not demand respect. The only reason why some Muslims go around acting like they do is because of the constant attack the media/some ignorant people throw at us. No other religions are treated like that. How do you think it feels when I go out of my house wearing hijab and I just start getting abused? Society has made it alright for people to disrespect and be intolerant towards Islam but for other religions it's immoral/wrong to do that.

    Be more open minded and see stuff from other people's perspective. As bullying someone because of their faith is just immoral and I would never, ever, ever bully someone due to their religion.
    Tolerate other religions? Hows your relationship with Judaism going...:rolleyes:
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    I agree. I don't hate Islam, or Muslims (obviously certain individuals, just like certain Christians, Jews or atheists). What really annoys me is some peoples hypocrisy. As a Christian Palestinian I have been to the middle east and seen how minorities are treated, I'm not saying all Muslims treat minorities badly, but you saw what they did in Egypt and areas of Yemen.

    However when I went to the eastern Mediterranean (levant), I visited Lebanon, Syria, Palestine and Jordan. Lebanese Muslims seemed very tolerant, besides 35% of the population are Christians and 45% are Muslims. But there was an obvious divide, they didn't really bond with eachother. Syria, again, they didn't mind, but Jordanians were a little rude, I got a few looks here and there because of my outfit, and one of the people checking my passport told me I should convert to islam -.- anyway palestine, I was treated really well, they didn't even care, and I wasn't too surprised. I think it's just that we Palestinians have something else to worry about (the occupation) so I guess It's the reason were more united and tolerant of eachother than most other middle eastern, north African countries.

    Some of them burn bibles/churches insult our beliefs and sometimes kill us because of who we are, so why the hypocrisy?

    Again, this applies to a VERY small amount of the 2billion Muslims around the world.

    Just get over it and stop acting ridiculous. It's a film, even some of the cast had no idea its was created to insult Islam, their voices were dubbed in some scenes. And the filmmaker is Robert brownwell, a director of softcore porn. So no surprise.

    And its the protestors who made the film viral, so yeh. I hadn't heard of the film, let alone the director or any of the cast.
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    (Original post by lilyobz)
    Tolerate other religions? Hows your relationship with Judaism going...:rolleyes:
    I have nothing at all against Judaism. I don't think a group of people define a religion. I think it's the people in the religion that are giving Judaism a bad name to us Muslims. Not Judaism itself. So before you start generalising read what I wrote properly. I said people do not define the religion/it's principles and its teachings.

    Sadly, I can see that you have been brainwashed by media. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by DeemzBeamz)
    I agree. I don't hate Islam, or Muslims (obviously certain individuals, just like certain Christians, Jews or atheists). What really annoys me is some peoples hypocrisy. As a Christian Palestinian I have been to the middle east and seen how minorities are treated, I'm not saying all Muslims treat minorities badly, but you saw what they did in Egypt and areas of Yemen.

    However when I went to the eastern Mediterranean (levant), I visited Lebanon, Syria, Palestine and Jordan. Lebanese Muslims seemed very tolerant, besides 35% of the population are Christians and 45% are Muslims. But there was an obvious divide, they didn't really bond with eachother. Syria, again, they didn't mind, but Jordanians were a little rude, I got a few looks here and there because of my outfit, and one of the people checking my passport told me I should convert to islam -.- anyway palestine, I was treated really well, they didn't even care, and I wasn't too surprised. I think it's just that we Palestinians have something else to worry about (the occupation) so I guess It's the reason were more united and tolerant of eachother than most other middle eastern, north African countries.

    Some of them burn bibles/churches insult our beliefs and sometimes kill us because of who we are, so why the hypocrisy?

    Again, this applies to a VERY small amount of the 2billion Muslims around the world.

    Just get over it and stop acting ridiculous. It's a film, even some of the cast had no idea its was created to insult Islam, their voices were dubbed in some scenes. And the filmmaker is Robert brownwell, a director of softcore porn. So no surprise.

    And its the protestors who made the film viral, so yeh. I've never heard of the film, let alone the director or any of the cast.
    I agree with you completely!
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    (Original post by TheWizardOfOz)
    Yeah, but shouldn't you respect all religions?
    Religions wield influence and that's power. I believe that all institutions that are endowed with power should be subject to criticism. If criticism is disrespect then no, we shouldn't be required to respect any religions. If we choose to do so out of courtesy then that is probably a good thing, but it has to be a choice and not a demand.
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    (Original post by ckingalt)
    Religions wield influence and that's power. I believe that all institutions that are endowed with power should be subject to criticism. If criticism is disrespect then no, we shouldn't be required to respect any religions. If we choose to do so out of courtesy then that is probably a good thing, but it has to be a choice and not a demand.
    There is a difference between criticizing a religion and just going out of your way to bash it and be completely intolerant of it. I believe everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and if you don't agree with Islam that's fine. But burning the Koran, drawing pictures of the prophet etc.... When you know that is going to hurt the feelings of the Muslims is a very immoral/spiteful thing to do and has gone beyond tolerance.

    So criticism is okay but when the attacks start getting personal... Well, that's a whole new different ball game.
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    (Original post by TheWizardOfOz)
    I have nothing at all against Judaism. I don't think a group of people define a religion. I think it's the people in the religion that are giving Judaism a bad name to us Muslims. Not Judaism itself. So before you start generalising read what I wrote properly. I said people do not define the religion/it's principles and its teachings.

    Sadly, I can see that you have been brainwashed by media. :rolleyes:
    I could quote and link many hate preaches about Judaism by your Imans (or whatever their called)
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    In your first sentence you tried to make it seem about all religions but then the title and the rest of the thread are just bashing islam :facepalm:

    I do kinda agree with you. Some religions say that anyone who doesn't follow them is basically the scum of the earth and should be converted/ killed. Why would I respect such a religion if they can't respect me for believing in science and not being an ignorant and gullible person thats following a book written hundreds of years ago, before people discovered why things happen in the world ie plate tectonics cause earthquakes/ volcanoes, it's not god punishing us for sinning.
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    (Original post by lilyobz)
    I could quote and link many hate preaches about Judaism by your Imans (or whatever their called)
    What you are not understanding is that I am an individual with my own thoughts and feelings/views on certain things. If they preach hate well that's them and this is MY VIEW.

    I have nothing against Judaism, I do not know anything about its principles/teachings etc.... Why should I hate/ judge them? At the end of the day I am not God. Also, to clarify, there are certain individuals of Jews which I don't like due to what they are doing to Palestine. But at the end of the day I am smart enough not to generalise Judaism being bad as I do not believe that a certain group of misguided individuals define a religion.
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    (Original post by ckingalt)
    No person, group or belief has the right to make such a demand. In a reasonable society respect can be deserved, earned and even expected, but it may never be a demand. It does not matter if someone burns a Koran, draws a cartoon, or makes a movie which insults Islam. Fundamentalist Islamic communities around the world will likely respond with some form of violence. These movements will justify their actions by claiming that they are rising up in defense of their beliefs. That assertion is wrong due to one crucial misconception that Islamic culture has failed to comprehend. Tolerance and respect are not the same. When a people reacts against intolerance then they are doing so in defense of their beliefs. When a people react against disrespect they are doing so in defense of their ego. One of those is a just cause and the other is not.

    When a person, group or belief demands respect with the threat of violence, they have failed to be worthy of the very demands they make.
    Just wondering, however valid your point may be, why the hell did you need to bring Islam into it AGAIN? :facepalm:

    "No person, group or belief has the right to make such a demand. In a reasonable society respect can be deserved, earned and even expected, but it may never be a demand. It does not matter if someone (here I'm thinking, "fair play, yep, I agree") burns a Koran (now I'm like, :facepalm2:)
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    (Original post by ckingalt)
    No person, group or belief has the right to make such a demand. In a reasonable society respect can be deserved, earned and even expected, but it may never be a demand. It does not matter if someone burns a Koran, draws a cartoon, or makes a movie which insults Islam. Fundamentalist Islamic communities around the world will likely respond with some form of violence. These movements will justify their actions by claiming that they are rising up in defense of their beliefs. That assertion is wrong due to one crucial misconception that Islamic culture has failed to comprehend. Tolerance and respect are not the same. When a people reacts against intolerance then they are doing so in defense of their beliefs. When a people react against disrespect they are doing so in defense of their ego. One of those is a just cause and the other is not.

    When a person, group or belief demands respect with the threat of violence, they have failed to be worthy of the very demands they make.

    (Original post by TheWizardOfOz)
    There is a difference between criticizing a religion and just going out of your way to bash it and be completely intolerant of it. I believe everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and if you don't agree with Islam that's fine. But burning the Koran, drawing pictures of the prophet etc.... When you know that is going to hurt the feelings of the Muslims is a very immoral/spiteful thing to do and has gone beyond tolerance.

    So criticism is okay but when the attacks start getting personal... Well, that's a whole new different ball game.
    In bold emphasizes my point exactly. Bashing it (disrespect) and intolerance are two different things, yet the justification for violent reaction always attempts to lump the two together. It boils down to a clash of culture. Islamic cultural belief is that Islam and Mohammed should be held sacred from ridicule. Western cultural belief is that nothing should be held sacred from ridicule. I don't expect Islamic cultures to make an exception for my beliefs when I am within their communities. They should not expect me to make an exception for theirs when I am within mine.

    If I am required to respect Islamic beliefs in an Islamic society then that is completely acceptable. When some Muslims suggest that non-Muslims should not be allowed to "bash" Islam in non-Muslim countries then their expectations are absurd.
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    (Original post by TheWizardOfOz)
    Yeah, but shouldn't you respect all religions?

    Personally, I am a Muslim and the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), has taught us to respect and tolerate different religions etc... So I respect/tolerate other religions. I believe Islam has become a scapegoat to the media as there is always something negative about it on the news etc... It saddens me to think that some people-(notice I did say "some)- think it's alright to bash Islam and not expect a huge outcry. It's a very naive way of thinking as us Muslims hold the prophet/Allah on a higher status then our own parents. Can you see how big of a deal it is for us? I am not saying murdering people etc... Is right. It's not right at all; I am not trying to justify the actions of some misguided Muslims but I want you to see why they act the way they act when people criticize or disrespect something that is very personal and sacred to them.

    The koran is sacred to us, and I think what's morally right is to not deface it etc... For the sake of tolerance and respect. You wouldn't see me going around defacing the bible or any other sacred text for a religion; I know it's morally wrong and extremely hurtful to them. I despise the idiotic way of thinking that some people label Islam as a violent/extremist religion due to the few bad Muslims that are misguided. There are good and bad people in every religion; you shouldn't let the people define the religion! So why can't we all just get along, huh? Also, be a little more open minded and don't listen to the garbage propaganda feeds you.

    P.S- Muslims do not demand respect. The only reason why some Muslims go around acting like they do is because of the constant attack the media/some ignorant people throw at us. No other religions are treated like that. How do you think it feels when I go out of my house wearing hijab and I just start getting abused? Society has made it alright for people to disrespect and be intolerant towards Islam but for other religions it's immoral/wrong to do that.

    Be more open minded and see stuff from other people's perspective. As bullying someone because of their faith is just immoral and I would never, ever, ever bully someone due to their religion.
    Huge flaw here. If I told you that pavements were sacred to me, would you continue to stamp all over them on a daily basis? It may seem like an extreme example, but why should anyone care what you think is sacred?
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    (Original post by TheWizardOfOz)
    What you are not understanding is that I am an individual with my own thoughts and feelings/views on certain things. If they preach hate well that's them and this is MY VIEW.

    I have nothing against Judaism, I do not know anything about its principles/teachings etc.... Why should I hate/ judge them? At the end of the day I am not God. Also, to clarify, there are certain individuals of Jews which I don't like due to what they are doing to Palestine. But at the end of the day I am smart enough not to generalise Judaism being bad as I do not believe that a certain group of misguided individuals define a religion.
    You may be an individual but the rest of the majority aren't so free thinking. The mass crowd in that video says it all.
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    (Original post by Clare~Bear)
    Some religions say that anyone who doesn't follow them is basically the scum of the earth and should be converted/ killed. Why would I respect such a religion if they can't respect me for believing in science and not being an ignorant and gullible person thats following a book written hundreds of years ago, before people discovered why things happen in the world ie plate tectonics cause earthquakes/ volcanoes, it's not god punishing us for sinning.
    I was having a discussion with this girl about religion, where I questioned her on the limits of certain things that the religion (can) impose(s) to individual's behaviours; she didn't answer the questions; instead, she said I was over complicating things with my 'critical thinking' skills.
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    (Original post by kka25)
    I was having a discussion with this girl about religion, where I questioned her on the limits of certain things that the religion (can) impose to individual's behaviours; she didn't answer the questions; instead, she said I was over complicating things with my 'critical thinking' skills.
    :rofl:
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    (Original post by The Polymath)
    Huge flaw here. If I told you that pavements were sacred to me, would you continue to stamp all over them on a daily basis? It may seem like an extreme example, but why should anyone care what you think is sacred?
    Well, if you do not care that Muslims hold the Koran very sacred; you are not being tolerant. And if you are not being tolerant don't expect people to be tolerant of your views/beliefs. Simple. You get what you give out.
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    (Original post by Clare~Bear)
    In your first sentence you tried to make it seem about all religions but then the title and the rest of the thread are just bashing islam :facepalm:

    (Original post by The Polymath)
    Just wondering, however valid your point may be, why the hell did you need to bring Islam into it AGAIN? :facepalm:
    I bring Islam into it because it is much more relevant in today's society in regards to Islam. From current events (the recent movie) to past ones (political cartoons and Koran defacement) Islamic interests are the ones commonly overacting to insults against their faith. That is obvious and you should not need me to tell you that.

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