Animal Rights: Ban inhumane ritual slaughter proved to cause insane suffering
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Original post by Joker370
CJD
EDIT: And instinct.
EDIT: And instinct.
Mad cow disease? If you want to argue on the basis of HEALTH, not eating meat is much more healthier than eating meat so that's a fail.
Elaborate on "instinct". Because... we don't feel like it? Instincts can be changed and shaped by conditioning. If you were to grow up in a society in which it was common to kill and eat human babies (for example), you wouldn't know of any "instinct" that would tell you otherwise.
It's about the morals that we are socialised into.
Original post by Joker370
Most of us have an instinct that drives us towards survival of the species - and hence away from farming people to eat instead of chickens. I regard myself as a compassionate guy, I work in a hospital and volunteer in a care home in my spare time, and yet I don't really care deep down about how my food is killed, because it is food. If it were a pet and I had emotional attachment to it then I would care, but unfortunately for the cows, pigs and chickens I eat I don't keep them as pets or even find them even slightly cute.
I respect animals as living things, but although you can question on a metaphysical level whether or not it is right to kill and eat animals, as a member of the dominant species biologically it is absolutely fine for me to get my nourishment from any non-harmful source to myself. Obviously human meat would be emotionally harmful for me and also put me at risk of developing creutzfeldt-jakob disease.
You that you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but to try to inflict it on others, or judge anyone who does not share it strikes me as silly and annoying when to do so you have to resort to declaring that those who do not agree with you are selfless and compassionless.
I respect animals as living things, but although you can question on a metaphysical level whether or not it is right to kill and eat animals, as a member of the dominant species biologically it is absolutely fine for me to get my nourishment from any non-harmful source to myself. Obviously human meat would be emotionally harmful for me and also put me at risk of developing creutzfeldt-jakob disease.
You that you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but to try to inflict it on others, or judge anyone who does not share it strikes me as silly and annoying when to do so you have to resort to declaring that those who do not agree with you are selfless and compassionless.
I imagine if i said i didnt care how a young child was killed for food I'd get a a similar response from you regarding my morals
you arnt the dominant species, you do realise there are animals that are much stronger than humans? that there was a study on chimpanzees that prove their intelligence is on par with ours?
why would it be emotionally harmful to you? because you find humans more important and worthy of life and respect than other animals? because you have no empathy for other animals because they are different to you, kind of like the slave trade years ago?
morally, morals being something only humans are supposed to have, one of the things thats supposed to make them more important than animals (although hardly any humans have true morals), it is not ok anymore because you dont need to do it to survive in this day and age (in the west atleast)
the telling part is you saying you consider yourself a compassionate guy, because you work in a care home and hospital. With people. Your exactly what I said you are because you consider only caring for your own species as something that makes you compassionate and a good person. it doesnt.
Original post by Emmak7
Well, empathy is just a feeling that has evolved through time. The only explanation I can give about you is that you're not evolved enough (lol) or that you might have a slight version of antisocial personality disorder.
Or you haven't thought about it enough. Can you empathise with the suffering of humans?
Or you haven't thought about it enough. Can you empathise with the suffering of humans?
There is no reason at all why we shouldn't eat animals. Society deems cannibalism to be unacceptable, it's just an arbitrary social construct, there is no logic behind it. You can never provide a case against those who violate animal "rights" whatever that's supposed to mean. Can animals even have rights? Again completely arbitrary and subjective. Don't pretend that vegans have a valid argument, it's all just a load of crap.
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
I'm a serial meat eater, and even I avoid Halal food like the plague. It's a barbaric form of slaughter that even many progressive muslims seem to detest.
Original post by mimx
RE: Why don't we just eat humans?
We don't want to.
QED.
We don't want to.
QED.
But some people do want to, yet its against the law
why is that?
Its because humans have put themselves on a pedestal and for some strange reason think they are above all else
you do know all we do is speak a different language to animals? some animals are even on par with us in intelligence, are faster and stronger than us and can kill a human instantly
people like you are deluded with your own self obsession and delusions of grandeur
Original post by noisy06
There is no reason at all why we shouldn't eat animals. Society deems cannibalism to be unacceptable, it's just an arbitrary social construct, there is no logic behind it. You can never provide a case against those who violate animal "rights" whatever that's supposed to mean. Can animals even have rights? Again completely arbitrary and subjective. Don't pretend that vegans have a valid argument, it's all just a load of crap.
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
animals do have rights, again, why shouldnt they have rights and humans should?
your ignorance astounds me
my views arnt anything to do with me being vegan, the main point im arguing is what logical reason humans have to think they are above all else, when they arnt anything special in the grand scheme of things, and are the same as animals in so many ways its unbelievable (yeah, as mentioned, we share 98.5% of one particular animals DNA)
society once deemed homosexuality unacceptable, and divorce, society is not always right, infact theres many arguments for cannibalism in the need for survival
try again
Original post by noisy06
There is no reason at all why we shouldn't eat animals. Society deems cannibalism to be unacceptable, it's just an arbitrary social construct, there is no logic behind it. You can never provide a case against those who violate animal "rights" whatever that's supposed to mean. Can animals even have rights? Again completely arbitrary and subjective. Don't pretend that vegans have a valid argument, it's all just a load of crap.
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
I completely agree that it's all subjective and arbitrary and it just depends on social construction. But being a person who cares about suffering, I refrain from causing any more suffering. (I'm trying to refrain from any value judgments here, so speaking strictly factual, forgetting about "morals").
It's an emotive response. I care about the suffering of others and about the suffering of animals. You can respond that you simply don't care. And that's the end of it. I can't argue that you SHOULD care because that would be a moral claim and moral claims are ALL subjective.
We can only agree (if you want) on some kind of basis in order to decide our morals, and then we can argue about what's the moral thing to do or not. But unless we do that, you can always refute my point by claiming that morality is subjective.
However, seeing that you argued on "social construction", I would say that the kind of morality that we have in our society is - more or less - based on alleviating suffering. (and some kind of rule utilitarianism)
Original post by badcheesecrispy
But some people do want to, yet its against the law
why is that?
Its because humans have put themselves on a pedestal and for some strange reason think they are above all else
you do know all we do is speak a different language to animals? some animals are even on par with us in intelligence, are faster and stronger than us and can kill a human instantly
people like you are deluded with your own self obsession and delusions of grandeur
why is that?
Its because humans have put themselves on a pedestal and for some strange reason think they are above all else
you do know all we do is speak a different language to animals? some animals are even on par with us in intelligence, are faster and stronger than us and can kill a human instantly
people like you are deluded with your own self obsession and delusions of grandeur
It's true, one time I saw a monkey actually peel a banana before eating it.
That genius monkey stared me down the whole time he was doing it. Then I gave him the finger and it became clear that he didn't have a clue what it meant.
Humans 1 : Animals 0
Original post by novaspire
heres something, what gives you the right to deem every other human as equal to animals? If we have to sink extra money into "ethical farming" that will cost people homes, aid, and food in ledc's. You're arguing a point that no-one can prove, and is right now a half-issue.
Or it might just cost Paris Hilton a new pair of high heels... Plus, the OP is hardly arguing about ethical farming (I dont think so anyway). Do YOU know the kind of environment damage that comes with slaughterhouses and factory farming?? Do you know the amount of money that we could save if we all became vegetarians or vegans?
Original post by Luminescent
I sort of get what you mean. I don't like causing unnecessary suffering (so the microwaving a cat thing would, quite rightly, upset me). However, I have no problem whatsoever with killing an animal. Just doesn't bother me.
do you have a problem with killing people? if so, why?
logically for the good of the planet people should die instead of say, a bengal tiger
one is overpopulated to the point of ruining the planet and the other is about to die off, coincidentally, because of the first one
yet humans still think they are more important than an endangered species so much so that the endangered doesnt even have to attack anyone, just be in the wrong place at the wrong time and it is killed just for 'human safety'
why is the latter so important?
humans even consider the lowest scummiest of humans important and worthy of life
again, why? all it is is delusions of grandeur for ones own species
Original post by Emmak7
Or it might just cost Paris Hilton a new pair of high heels... Plus, the OP is hardly arguing about ethical farming (I dont think so anyway). Do YOU know the kind of environment damage that comes with slaughterhouses and factory farming?? Do you know the amount of money that we could save if we all became vegetarians or vegans?
We'd lose money because there would be less food, a ridiculous amount of land needed so not only would house prices be higher but food prices themselves. Also people would be less healthy, it'd be much harder to have a balanced diet so there would be medical problems for some, not to mention a massive hit in food culture.
Original post by mimx
It's true, one time I saw a monkey actually peel a banana before eating it.
That genius monkey stared me down the whole time he was doing it. Then I gave him the finger and it became clear that he didn't have a clue what it meant.
Humans 1 : Animals 0
That genius monkey stared me down the whole time he was doing it. Then I gave him the finger and it became clear that he didn't have a clue what it meant.
Humans 1 : Animals 0
dodging the issue here, try again
im not talking about peeling bananas here
i think you need to study this topic a bit cos you are absolutely clueless on the subject we are discussing
I agree with you somewhat however I don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat, it's all that 'circle of life' crap again but it's true, not saying animals in ANY way deserve some of the horrible things that are undoubtably done to them but say for example I went for a walk in africa and a lion decided to eat me starting with my legs, no i wouldn't be impressed but that's sometimes how it goes. Just as some humans are millionaires, some live **** lives. What about the veg you eat? is someone going to come on and say what about their rights as they are 'alive'.
I agree completely about the ritual slaughter ****e and stunning even; we should have more effective methods in place to kill a cow painlessly if we can travel to frigging mars. However (I work at a farm) I'm under the belief that, as long as you give the best of care to your animals then you deserve something at the end of it, give and take sort of thing and I know a lot of farmers share their sentiment (I know many won't but still)
Basically I think that more extreme versions of animal cruelty should be tackled first before we get onto this stuff. I mean some animals really do live very **** lives and probably envy the cow who has spent most her life grazing.
I agree completely about the ritual slaughter ****e and stunning even; we should have more effective methods in place to kill a cow painlessly if we can travel to frigging mars. However (I work at a farm) I'm under the belief that, as long as you give the best of care to your animals then you deserve something at the end of it, give and take sort of thing and I know a lot of farmers share their sentiment (I know many won't but still)
Basically I think that more extreme versions of animal cruelty should be tackled first before we get onto this stuff. I mean some animals really do live very **** lives and probably envy the cow who has spent most her life grazing.
Original post by badcheesecrispy
do you have a problem with killing people? if so, why?
logically for the good of the planet people should die instead of say, a bengal tiger
one is overpopulated to the point of ruining the planet and the other is about to die off, coincidentally, because of the first one
yet humans still think they are more important than an endangered species so much so that the endangered doesnt even have to attack anyone, just be in the wrong place at the wrong time and it is killed just for 'human safety'
why is the latter so important?
humans even consider the lowest scummiest of humans important and worthy of life
again, why? all it is is delusions of grandeur for ones own species
logically for the good of the planet people should die instead of say, a bengal tiger
one is overpopulated to the point of ruining the planet and the other is about to die off, coincidentally, because of the first one
yet humans still think they are more important than an endangered species so much so that the endangered doesnt even have to attack anyone, just be in the wrong place at the wrong time and it is killed just for 'human safety'
why is the latter so important?
humans even consider the lowest scummiest of humans important and worthy of life
again, why? all it is is delusions of grandeur for ones own species
Go kill yourself then if you're so certain in your hypothesis. Humans have technology, medicine and culture. Thats what makes us superior. Not to mention Humans are living, the animals are dying off, so that makes us clearly superior in nature.
And also, your acting like species prioritization is a human thing. Clearly not true, animals will also kill any other animals or humans if they are a danger to members of their species.
Original post by Emmak7
Mad cow disease? If you want to argue on the basis of HEALTH, not eating meat is much more healthier than eating meat so that's a fail.
Elaborate on "instinct". Because... we don't feel like it? Instincts can be changed and shaped by conditioning. If you were to grow up in a society in which it was common to kill and eat human babies (for example), you wouldn't know of any "instinct" that would tell you otherwise.
It's about the morals that we are socialised into.
Elaborate on "instinct". Because... we don't feel like it? Instincts can be changed and shaped by conditioning. If you were to grow up in a society in which it was common to kill and eat human babies (for example), you wouldn't know of any "instinct" that would tell you otherwise.
It's about the morals that we are socialised into.
Nope mad cow disease is vCJD, related name but not the same. True, however the number of societies that are documented to eat human flesh is incredibly small compared to the number that don't, leading me to believe (although I could be wrong) that it probably also has a biological (or possibly Darwinian) grounding. Also can't think of any animals (except invertebrates) that eat other members of their species by choice.
Original post by novaspire
We'd lose money because there would be less food, a ridiculous amount of land needed so not only would house prices be higher but food prices themselves. Also people would be less healthy, it'd be much harder to have a balanced diet so there would be medical problems for some, not to mention a massive hit in food culture.
wrong
http://www.theecologist.org/how_to_make_a_difference/food_and_gardening/1110019/viral_storm_why_factory_farming_is_bad_for_your_health.html
killing animals is bad for the environment, it is a lengthy topic i believe you should educate yourself on before posting here
find out what would happen if bees become instinct
humans need animals like we need them
so many on this thread are clueless, I really cant believe it
Original post by novaspire
We'd lose money because there would be less food, a ridiculous amount of land needed so not only would house prices be higher but food prices themselves. Also people would be less healthy, it'd be much harder to have a balanced diet so there would be medical problems for some, not to mention a massive hit in food culture.
I don't think you can make the claim that food and house prices would go up, seeing that the economy would suffer so much (because of the loss of the meat industry), that we would have to change A LOT in the economy. Which is why I think it's definitely not doable right NOW, but it would be nice if it happened in the future.
Your claim about people being less healthy is wrong. You assume that if people stop eating meat, they would have an unhealthy diet. That claim is just factually wrong and a 2 minute google search can show you that. There would be no medical problems. We would be producing much more vegetables and the kind of vegetables that are now unknown to MANY people because, frankly, as a society, we hardly eat vegetables. The kind of vegetables that are much more nutritious than meat.
http://dangerousintersection.org/2007/09/22/why-eating-meat-is-bad-for-the-environment/
This issue of eating meat is gaining more momentum, as people start realizing the toll that meat-eating is putting on the environment. Raising farm animals contributes more greenhouse gases to the environment than all transportation (cars, trains, airplanes and anything else) combined.
The vast majority of the calories consumed by a chicken, a pig, a cow, or another animal goes into keeping that animal alive, and once you add to that the calories required to create the parts of the animal that we don’t eat (e.g., bones, feathers, and blood), you find that it takes more than 10 times as many calories of feed given to an animal to get one calorie back in the form of edible fat or muscle. In other words, it’s exponentially more efficient to eat grains, soy, or oats directly rather than feed them to farmed animals so that humans can eat those animals. It’s like tossing more than 10 plates of spaghetti into the trash for every one plate you eat.
This issue of eating meat is gaining more momentum, as people start realizing the toll that meat-eating is putting on the environment. Raising farm animals contributes more greenhouse gases to the environment than all transportation (cars, trains, airplanes and anything else) combined.
The vast majority of the calories consumed by a chicken, a pig, a cow, or another animal goes into keeping that animal alive, and once you add to that the calories required to create the parts of the animal that we don’t eat (e.g., bones, feathers, and blood), you find that it takes more than 10 times as many calories of feed given to an animal to get one calorie back in the form of edible fat or muscle. In other words, it’s exponentially more efficient to eat grains, soy, or oats directly rather than feed them to farmed animals so that humans can eat those animals. It’s like tossing more than 10 plates of spaghetti into the trash for every one plate you eat.
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