Work can kill. Overtime work causes heart diseases. Are careers efficient?

Have a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitehall_Study

It seems quite extensive.

Originally, I meant to refer to this, although it doesn't seem like a reliable newspaper to most. But the article is very concise and gives the main data.
Working more than eight hours a day raises the risk of heart disease by 80%
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2201519/Working-hours-day-raises-risk-heart-disease-80.html

But apart from articles and studies... THIS IS ALSO ABOUT MY OWN EXPERIENCE and that of many others whom I know.

Search on Google "overtime health".
Search also "work stress effects".

Plenty of articles.

Even articles saying that it doesn't matter whether you enjoy work or not. It is unhealthy!

Ever read about those things in career advice guides? Ever heard about that stuff at the university career counseling?
Me, never.

My cousin was killed at work around a year ago due to negligence by his employers, but in addition to that, I truly want to discuss an issue that weighs on my heart in this period:

I grew up with the belief that pursuing success and a great career would be an important if not the most important aspect of life, or at least something that would assist the financing of life. That's what I invested in all this time, including all the money spent on education.

I also grew up with (and still believe in) the idea that competitiveness and business are a great and respectful trait of life, and I always enjoyed working in whatever role I have been.

However, I know that for many people, work is a means to "make a living", to get the money to survive in society. I believe(d?) in the free market, but it is issues like the link above and my cousin's story that make me wonder whether the free market is truly efficient and worth living in...

I would say most people who want to be successful at work and rise up the ranks of their career - and even those who just need to be competitive - do encounter stress and will have periods in life where they will work overtime and sacrifice personal/private time for the sake of their careers.
Or just for the sake of trying to make ends meet!

But what I find most ironic and/or sad about this is that, as evidenced in the article above, if you want to be successful, you will be putting your health at stake - and even your life! Even more ironic: even if you want to be just competitive (and not a successful careerist), you will have to suffer and risk your health.

I consider myself more "careerist" than the average person, yet reading about these things - which I honestly can experience also in my daily work, I can't help wondering whether the whole idea of competitiveness, work and the free market are nothing but a huge lie that we believe in to our own detriment. Plus other questions:

People are fired for having families and thus not being able to commit to work. People are fired for being ill.

Leave aside the political discussion. But can we, with a healthy conscience, say that a person "deserves" their quality of life and wealth depending on how much they are willing to sacrifice their health?

Can we say that a person is less worthy of wealth if they choose to dedicate time to their family and personal development rather than invest in suffering at work?

Is it fair to assume that a person who doesn't stay late in office is not worthy of a promotion, just because they pay more attention to their health?

Let me take it even further: is career success only for those who are ready to give up their body for money? What makes hard work better than prostitution then?

(edited 11 years ago)

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Reply 1

Polygoof

Why this silence?

I am a bit concerned that news like this does not alarm anyone. I worry about this day and night.

Maybe not many here are in the actual workforce yet? I am in my late 20s now. I consider myself as someone who had a very successful career growth so far - but I am starting to realize the hidden costs of such success.

I would be really keen on discussing this with others.

If you have other ideas on places where I could discuss about this, please let me know.

Reply 2

Genocidal

It's just no surprise. Eating fast food, smoking, and drinking alcohol also impacts your health but it doesn't mean anything should be done about it.

Reply 3

Robbie242

Not a surprise its from the daily fail they always exaggerate stuff and also if its a good job say a business compared to a miner its way less likely you'll get heart disease

Reply 4

Brachioradialis

Also important to figure out who they included in the data. For example is this using people who were working 10-20 years ago, or this taken from recent data in the past 5 years? Working times have reduced significantly for many professions in the past few years. If you're including older data, it gives a false picture about how things are right now. Also which careers were compared? Were they inherently more stressful than others (i.e. medicine vs. accountant? well paid vs poor paid? is there a balance between difficulty of career and economical benefit to the employee?)

Reply 5

S.R

Obviously if you overdo anything it will be bad for you but I really don't think that if you enjoy your job, do it for 7 hours a day take breaks etc and don't get obsessed then it can't be any worse for you than sitting on your arse infront of the tv doing nothing. After all people spend hours a day on sports/hobbies which don't kill them. But when money is involved I guess people will tend to go beyond the point where they have had enough for the day.

Reply 6

snozzle

I spend ten years doing crazy shift work and long hours, it was bad for my health and i got into a hole. I'll never again push myself so hard as I need to look after my health,one reason I am back at Uni doing a masters.

Reply 7

snozzle

Original post by Robbie242

Not a surprise its from the daily fail they always exaggerate stuff and also if its a good job say a business compared to a miner its way less likely you'll get heart disease

There is stress too,it's not just the physical side of the work.

Loads of professionals and execs drop dead from stress in middle age.

Reply 8

Brachioradialis

Original post by snozzle

Loads of professionals and execs drop dead from stress in middle age.

Little bit exaggerated, do you have a source for the rate at which these executives are dropping off from stress?

Reply 9

kka25

Original post by Polygoof

Maybe not many here are in the actual workforce yet? I am in my late 20s now. I consider myself as someone who had a very successful career growth so far - but I am starting to realize the hidden costs of such success.

I would be really keen on discussing this with others.

I'm very interested to hear your experience, and the hidden cost of such success from your experiences.

Reply 10

Polygoof

I just linked to one article from UK press because that seemed to be the standard on this UK-based forum... However, the very same studies have been conducted and reviewed elsewhere and, honestly, make very much sense to me also from a purely subjective point of view judging by the people I have met in my life, where I worked and where I studied.

I am not basing my whole argument on just that one article, but that seemed most appropriate and concise in summarizing the background to my thoughts.
Part of my own studies included occupational psychology and, even though it was not part of my curriculum, I did read up a lot on the topic. So, don't judge what I say merely on the article. This may be of further interest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_health_psychology

Death by overwork happens quite often.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kar%C5%8Dshi
(or search "death by overwork")

With regards to stress... wow, I am surprised at how some people really underestimate the damage of psychological un-wellness on the body! But even not feeling well psychologically in itself - isn't that bad enough? Isn't suffering bad enough?

And when you think "that's reality if you want to get money" - then don't you think there's something wrong with this reality, and that there are alternatives we could find elsewhere? Or at least point out to such issues?

Reply 11

Polygoof

Original post by kka25

I'm very interested to hear your experience, and the hidden cost of such success from your experiences.

Oh, I could say many things that I don't know where to start.

And of course, part of that cost is even the inability to stay on this forum to write, as I have to rest and sleep so I can continue working tomorrow as well...

In theory, we work 9-10 hours a day, and in theory, during those hours alone our time "belongs" to our employer. However, in reality this extends to our whole life. We adapt our whole life time, morning and night, to our job/career.

We don't wake up when we want, nor do we go to sleep when we want, because all that time is spent PREPARING for work.

Other hidden costs?
- less time to spend with the woman I love.
(OH, that's not so important RIGHT?)
- less time to devote to physical fitness, especially since I spend most of the time at work in an office.
Which also causes additional overuse physical stress!
- And how to get rid of the back pains?
Oh right, I can go to NHS and wait a couple of months till I get some therapy. Or pay for a private physiotherapist.
- And then again - what about the time I could spend seeing my old friends?
- Oh, and what if the woman I love thinks we are not spending enough time together... can I tell that to my boss or will he not care?

Many hidden costs: Time, money, but especially life and love.

And now, the woman I love is also working around 12 hours a day.
Are there any alternatives?
Yes, UNEMPLOYMENT, which means less money and thereby less opportunities to actually do something.

It is like having a job is the lesser of two evils!

One can only wonder:
are we working in order to live, or are we living in order to work?

It would be nice to have the following:
a clear-cut career path with no extras and implicit/hidden promises of commitment in the [unexisting] fine print of the work contract.
8 hours should mean 8 hours. Full stop.
If I am good in those 8 hours, I should be promoted. Full stop.

If someone stays in office 5 hours overtime and adds no value except for sucking up to the boss, THEY should be fired!

That would be the IDEAL situation.

Unfortunately, I never found that ideal situation yet.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 12

0le

Original post by Robbie242

Not a surprise its from the daily fail they always exaggerate stuff and also if its a good job say a business compared to a miner its way less likely you'll get heart disease

I agree with this. I haven't read the article and nor do I want to. I feel the DailyMail exaggerate things in general. Anyhow, i don't think working can directly cause any illness (unless your job description entails some danger to it). Indirectly, your job will affect your lifestyle and it is your lifestyle which can often determine your general health (putting aside genetic disorders etc).

Reply 13

Robbie242

Original post by djpailo

Exactly my point, I don't trust anything from the daily fail unless its being covered by a more respectable newspaper.

Reply 14

rj1990

I think it's more healthy to work hard than to stay at home all day doing nothing. I've had times stuck at home unemployed and got into deep depressions and anxiety attacks. I'd prefer to be out all day in the real world working.

Reply 15

CherryCherryBoomBoom

This summer I worked a job with lot of 12 hour shifts, mostly at night as well and it was so bloody stressful. I was basically going to work at 7pm, finishing as 7am the next day to go home and sleep a bit, then wake up again the same day for work again at 7pm. It was worth it for the good money I got as well as the experience of working and meeting new people. I certainly wouldn't do shifts like that long term though. Not just bad for your health, but also kills your social life.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 16

Ano1

Original post by Robbie242

Not a surprise its from the daily fail they always exaggerate stuff and also if its a good job say a business compared to a miner its way less likely you'll get heart disease

Actually sir, Whitehall has produced several studies that prove job insecurity and too much overtime in the long-term can create heart disease (even if the problems at work stop, the health consequences remain!)

Look it up here:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=whitehall+heart+disease

Reply 17