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Original post by qwerty7
If you're a survivor of rape, I'm sure a man flashing himself can be pretty threatening, even if that wasn't his intention.


That's not his problem. It's not inherently threatening to be naked, it's merely the attitude of the offendee.
Reply 21
Original post by doggyfizzel
Its not really funny, he's just being a dick.

That said, I find the whole Slutwalk movement/activism ridiculous. Quite frankly its just a movement that makes victims and people who know victims feel better by buying into this theory that there is nothing anyone person can do to reduce the risk of them being a victim, and we shouldn't talk about it because that's victim blaming. A theory that we never apply to any other situation than rape.

Ignore the victims, shame the bystanders (men, any one will do) and pretend the criminals don't exist or are unaware rape is a criminal offence or give **** for that matter.


Excellently said, couldn't agree more
Reply 22
Original post by bottled
tumblr_m79odypG931qgincb.jpg why i don't like these walks

the thing people don't realise is that most rapists don't rape because they see a sexy woman, they actually have some sort of mental condition. Telling people not to rape isn't gonna stop rapists in the same respect telling a murderer not to murder isn't going to be very effective, or a mugger not to mug isn't gonna stop anything at all.

and my gosh comparing someone showing his junk in a slutwalk, a walk in which many people go around the place naked or topless to a noose is a damn stupid analogy to make.


I think they understand that, the issue is victim-blaming. Most people don't realise that one of the key reasons why rapists aren't convicted is because in court the blame is often shifted onto the woman, and questions about how drunk she was, what she was wearing ect are brought into light when in reality the focus should be entirely on the rapist. I understand that telling a "murderer not to murder" won't stop him from committing a murder in the same way that telling a rapist won't stop a rape from happening, but in those instances we don't blame the victim for being there. We very rarely ask how many sexual partners a victim has had when they have been murdered, or what they were wearing ect.
Reply 23
hol up 1 sec

Original post by qwerty7
If you're a survivor of rape, I'm sure a man flashing himself can be pretty threatening, even if that wasn't his intention.


what. threatening with like. y'know a few hundred people? some of who are partially/fully naked and female?
was a few people throwing vegetables a good way to deal with this? was sounding claxons right next to his ears appropriate? what did he actually do wrong except being a jerk?
Original post by Aisha~~
Haha, WHAT. Being naked is threatening?

Bahaha


It depends on the context. Nakedness in itself isn't offensive, and if someone had causally turned up to Slutwalk naked I doubt there would have been a problem (except maybe from the police). However, if it is aimed at a person, or a group of people, it is threatening. Are you saying you wouldn't be scared if a person took off their trousers while looking at you while you were walking down the street? Because I would be.
Original post by qwerty7
I'm sure a man flashing himself can be pretty threatening


What makes you so sure? Can't the dainty women handle themselves in front of the scary genitals without feeling threatened?
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 26
Original post by Aisha~~
That's not his problem. It's not inherently threatening to be naked, it's merely the attitude of the offendee.


I'm sure it is his problem when he's blatantly flashing at a group of sexual-assault and rape survivors. Had he been naked in his own home with no one else to see then I'd agree with you that to be naked is not offensive and shouldn't be an issue, but when he's actively flashing to a group of women to cause offence, then yes it is a threatening act.
Reply 27
Original post by electriic_ink
What makes you so sure? Can't the dainty women handle themselves in front of the scary genitals?


They're rape survivors? I don't understand what's so confusing about this.
Reply 28
Original post by qwerty7
I think they understand that, the issue is victim-blaming. Most people don't realise that one of the key reasons why rapists aren't convicted is because in court the blame is often shifted onto the woman, and questions about how drunk she was, what she was wearing ect are brought into light when in reality the focus should be entirely on the rapist. I understand that telling a "murderer not to murder" won't stop him from committing a murder in the same way that telling a rapist won't stop a rape from happening, but in those instances we don't blame the victim for being there. We very rarely ask how many sexual partners a victim has had when they have been murdered, or what they were wearing ect.


I highly doubt these practises are at all prevalent (except possibly the question of alcohol consumption which is an important factor)
Original post by qwerty7
Sorry to quote the daily mail, but here it is:
"A third of Britons believe a woman who acts flirtatiously is partially or completely to blame for being raped, according to a new study.
More than a quarter also believe a woman is at least partly responsible for being raped if she wears sexy or revealing clothing, or is drunk, the study found.
One in five think a woman is partly to blame if it is known she has many sexual partners, while more than a third believe she is responsible to some degree if she has clearly failed to say "no" to the man.", surely a third of Britons counts as a 'prevalent view'?


Society doesn't blame women for being raped, that survey shows that people hold the view that women can take sensible precautions, which is normal in any situation, and does not in any way excuse the rapist.

Looking at that survey, I wonder if the questions are couched in a way that the respondents believe that they are answering whether or not women can/should take better precautions in minimising risks to their person, rather than saying that they are in any way to blame. The two are not the same thing.

In any case, I would say that the prevalent view, is the view of more than half, surely? Otherwise the word you are looking for is 'minority' view.

Original post by qwerty7
And the author isn't trying to argue that they are "mostly feminists", they're trying to argue that most of them have experienced sexual harrasment or abuse and it is something which dictates their daily lives. Sexual abuse survivor and feminist aren't mutually exclusive terms.


I don't see how you can argue the position that because someone takes part in a slut walk, most of them are women who have been necessarily raped or sexually assaulted. That is an unfounded assumption.

It is (a presumption) that it is much more likely that they are feminists showing solidarity with other feminists, and not necessarily having been victims of sexual assault.

Unless the prerequisite for participation is that you need to have been a victim of such?

Sorry that you didn't feel the need to answer: How or why exactly does one need to 'structure activities to avoid being raped'? Too difficult?
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by qwerty7
They're rape survivors? I don't understand what's so confusing about this.


No, they're feminists. And those of them that have been raped are not rape "survivors" - they're rape victims. Rape is not an intrinsically life threatening act.

Perhaps you could tell me how many of those attending the rally have been raped.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 31
Original post by qwerty7
I think they understand that, the issue is victim-blaming. Most people don't realise that one of the key reasons why rapists aren't convicted is because in court the blame is often shifted onto the woman, and questions about how drunk she was, what she was wearing ect are brought into light when in reality the focus should be entirely on the rapist. I understand that telling a "murderer not to murder" won't stop him from committing a murder in the same way that telling a rapist won't stop a rape from happening, but in those instances we don't blame the victim for being there. We very rarely ask how many sexual partners a victim has had when they have been murdered, or what they were wearing ect.


Do you have a source (a reputable one, and just about 1 case) because thats bad if its true (which I don't believe it is).

The point about alchohol consumption is possibly valid though as if a woman had been drinking a lot then the defence could argue that her memory is blurred and that things may not have happened how she said they did.
Reply 32
Original post by bottled
hol up 1 sec



what. threatening with like. y'know a few hundred people? some of who are partially/fully naked and female?
was a few people throwing vegetables a good way to deal with this? was sounding claxons right next to his ears appropriate? what did he actually do wrong except being a jerk?


Had I had been there I probably would have reacted violently too, yes I still think that it is a threatening act even if the chance of being personally attacked is slim because you are in a crowd. As a victim of sexual assault I do find it difficult to explain, so I'm totally fine with not being understood because I don't think I'm coming across as eloquent as I'd like to be, but had I been in the crowd I would have been both angry and yes I would have felt threatened.
Reply 33
Original post by electriic_ink
What makes you so sure? Can't the dainty women handle themselves in front of the scary genitals without feeling threatened?


I think it's more, they know rape victims are part of the march and seeing a penis can be tramatic for them as ridiculous as it may sound. Why do you think rape victims don't just suddenly jump back to having sex again? The violent reaction I imagine were more from people who knew the victims and wanted him to stop, though some were just feminazi's.

I don't 100% agree on the march though, mostly because it doesn't seem to have a clear aim. Several people say it represents different things and to me it's not really answering any problem really. It's just kind of there.
Reply 34
Original post by ArtGoblin
A man exposing his penis is not being funny, he is being threatening. .


Just a thought. If a woman exposes herself it is humiliating for her, right? Where is the logic?
Original post by qwerty7
I think they understand that, the issue is victim-blaming. Most people don't realise that one of the key reasons why rapists aren't convicted is because in court the blame is often shifted onto the woman, and questions about how drunk she was, what she was wearing ect are brought into light when in reality the focus should be entirely on the rapist. I understand that telling a "murderer not to murder" won't stop him from committing a murder in the same way that telling a rapist won't stop a rape from happening, but in those instances we don't blame the victim for being there. We very rarely ask how many sexual partners a victim has had when they have been murdered, or what they were wearing ect.
I'm pretty sure the reason most rapists aren't convicted in court is just the general doubt. Under the most common circumstances, all you can sure of is two people were together and sex occurred. One word against another.

The question of sobriety is pretty relevant when judging someone version of events and their reliability as a witness. Is their version of events, their memory clear and reliable after a bottle of vodka? The other questions are uncomfortable but as in all cases build a portrait for the jury. Its common in many cases not just rape cases.
Reply 36
Original post by qwerty7
I think they understand that, the issue is victim-blaming. Most people don't realise that one of the key reasons why rapists aren't convicted is because in court the blame is often shifted onto the woman, and questions about how drunk she was, what she was wearing ect are brought into light when in reality the focus should be entirely on the rapist. I understand that telling a "murderer not to murder" won't stop him from committing a murder in the same way that telling a rapist won't stop a rape from happening, but in those instances we don't blame the victim for being there. We very rarely ask how many sexual partners a victim has had when they have been murdered, or what they were wearing ect.


The daily mail article survey was slightly flawed as partially blaming someone and completely blaming someone is two different things. Saying that you shouldn't drink too much and wear overly revealing clothing in combination isn't victim blaming, it's called telling someone to take precautions.

me saying it's her fault for getting raped, because she drank that much and walked around the place topless would be me victim blaming. those are two different views.

further more all these things do is perpetuate the stereotype that only men do the majority of the raping in these areas despite the fact that most studies do not take forced envelopment as a form of rape in the uk as of course the law doesn't either and most studies i've seen are flawed due to that.
ou thats champion lad!
Reply 38
Original post by ArtGoblin
It depends on the context. Nakedness in itself isn't offensive, and if someone had causally turned up to Slutwalk naked I doubt there would have been a problem (except maybe from the police). However, if it is aimed at a person, or a group of people, it is threatening. Are you saying you wouldn't be scared if a person took off their trousers while looking at you while you were walking down the street? Because I would be.


If that person was a woman, most men would be sexually aroused.
If that person was a man, most men would just laugh at him.
I am guessing this is a case of feminine body perception which can't really be extrapolated.
Reply 39
Original post by electriic_ink
No, they're feminists. And those of them that have been raped are not rape "survivors" - they're rape victims. Rape is not an intrinsically life threatening act.



Interesting reply, sir.

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