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What does 'honoraires ttc en sus' mean in relation to renting a property in France?

I'm looking for properties to rent during my year abroad next year and I notice that a lot of them have an additional charge labelled 'honoraires ttc en sus', which is usually a hefty amount.

I'm guessing this is some sort of agency fee but just to check that it is a lump sum and not a monthly payment? If it's a monthly payment, I'm going to have to seriously reconsider my options! :ninja:

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Yes, you guessed right. It's an agency fee (ttc= all taxes included, en sus= in addition ie. on top of the rent). The fee covers the agency's commission.

If you are paying the agency only once, and then subsequently paying a landlord monthly, you will pay the fee only once.

If you pay your rent directly to the agency, then you will be paying that amount each month.
Reply 2
Original post by Rascacielos
I'm looking for properties to rent during my year abroad next year and I notice that a lot of them have an additional charge labelled 'honoraires ttc en sus', which is usually a hefty amount.

I'm guessing this is some sort of agency fee but just to check that it is a lump sum and not a monthly payment? If it's a monthly payment, I'm going to have to seriously reconsider my options! :ninja:

It is basically an agency fee (normally a lump sum) with inclusive VAT.

For example you have an apartment that is 1000€pm, the Honoraires de l'agence immobilière is 400€ and Taxes sur les honoraires (20%) is 80€. You rent the apartment for 3 months, that is 3000€ plus honoraires ttc en sus which brings you to a total of 3480€... if my math is correct :tongue: this is normal for rentals.
Reply 3
Original post by tehFrance
It is basically an agency fee (normally a lump sum) with inclusive VAT.

For example you have an apartment that is 1000€pm, the Honoraires de l'agence immobilière is 400€ and Taxes sur les honoraires (20%) is 80€. You rent the apartment for 3 months, that is 3000€ plus honoraires ttc en sus which brings you to a total of 3480€... if my math is correct :tongue: this is normal for rentals.


So the fee listed on, say a website, is how much you'd pay for 1 month. And you multiply that by the amount of months you intend on renting it for?

Blimey, so I was looking at renting a property for about 500 euros per month, with an 'honoraires ttc en sus' listed as 700 euros... So for a 9 month student contract, I'd be paying £6300 just in agency fees!? Really!?
Reply 4
Original post by standreams
Yes, you guessed right. It's an agency fee (ttc= all taxes included, en sus= in addition ie. on top of the rent). The fee covers the agency's commission.

If you are paying the agency only once, and then subsequently paying a landlord monthly, you will pay the fee only once.

If you pay your rent directly to the agency, then you will be paying that amount each month.


I see... How do I know from an advertisement whether I'll be paying it to the agency or to the landlord? Is it more common to pay to the agency or the landlord? I can't afford to pay 6000+ euros in agency fees on top of rent!
Reply 5
Original post by Rascacielos
So the fee listed on, say a website, is how much you'd pay for 1 month. And you multiply that by the amount of months you intend on renting it for?

Blimey, so I was looking at renting a property for about 500 euros per month, with an 'honoraires ttc en sus' listed as 700 euros... So for a 9 month student contract, I'd be paying £6300 just in agency fees!? Really!?

I think you are getting confused, re-read what I wrote and the example I gave. The agency fee is a one off, it is basically commission.
Reply 6
Original post by tehFrance
I think you are getting confused, re-read what I wrote and the example I gave. The agency fee is a one off, it is basically commission.


All I get from your post is that the agency fee which is listed in the advertisement is multiplied by the amount of months you will be renting the apartment for, so an agency fee of 500 euros for 10 months would be £5000. Sorry if I'm reading it wrong. :colondollar:
Reply 7
Original post by Rascacielos
All I get from your post is that the agency fee which is listed in the advertisement is multiplied by the amount of months you will be renting the apartment for, so an agency fee of 500 euros for 10 months would be £5000. Sorry if I'm reading it wrong. :colondollar:

What, how are you misreading it?

Rent - 1000€
Agency fee - 400€
VAT (TTC) - 80€
Total - 1480€

You only multiply the rent not the agency fees and VAT (TTC), so if you were staying at a place for 3 months the total would be 3480€. As far as I am aware the agency fee is a one time fee, you may want to phone and double check but I am pretty sure it is a one time fee although I have never rented and never will.
Reply 8
Original post by tehFrance
What, how are you misreading it?

Rent - 1000€
Agency fee - 400€
VAT (TTC) - 80€
Total - 1480€

You only multiply the rent not the agency fees and VAT (TTC), so if you were staying at a place for 3 months the total would be 3480€. As far as I am aware the agency fee is a one time fee, you may want to phone and double check but I am pretty sure it is a one time fee although I have never rented and never will.


Oh, I see. Blimey, that took a while (sorry!).

So I'd pay 480 Euros when I signed the contract, then each month I would just pay 1000 Euros? With you. Got it. Kerplunk.

(And thanks)

EDIT: Rereading all of your posts. I have no idea how I managed to misunderstand you. I think I need a hot chocolate and bed.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 9
Original post by Rascacielos
Oh, I see. Blimey, that took a while (sorry!).

So I'd pay 480 Euros when I signed the contract, then each month I would just pay 1000 Euros? With you. Got it. Kerplunk.

(And thanks)

:smile:

Yeah in that example, that is how it should work. Obviously double check with the agency, they should help you with the details and explain it clearly... like I said, I could be wrong (I don't think I am) but I have not rented so there is a possibility :tongue:
Reply 10
I'm currently renting in France.

Agency fees will be a one off payment: but the fees vary from agency to agency. When I was first looking around some fees were 300 euro and then some were much, much higher. You will then usually pay your rent directly to your landlord.

Also, make sure you factor in a deposit. I found that because I wasn't French and wasn't able to provide a French guarantor, I had to pay 2-3 months rent as a deposit, much higher then what's usually expected.

In the end I found somewhere to live directly through a landlord so thankfully I didn't have to deal with the pesky and high agency fees.
Reply 11
Original post by .Scout.
I'm currently renting in France.

Agency fees will be a one off payment: but the fees vary from agency to agency. When I was first looking around some fees were 300 euro and then some were much, much higher. You will then usually pay your rent directly to your landlord.

Also, make sure you factor in a deposit. I found that because I wasn't French and wasn't able to provide a French guarantor, I had to pay 2-3 months rent as a deposit, much higher then what's usually expected.

In the end I found somewhere to live directly through a landlord so thankfully I didn't have to deal with the pesky and high agency fees.


Oh gawd, that's one hell of a deposit. How did you manage to find a landlord without going through an agency?

Original post by tehFrance
:smile:

Yeah in that example, that is how it should work. Obviously double check with the agency, they should help you with the details and explain it clearly... like I said, I could be wrong (I don't think I am) but I have not rented so there is a possibility :tongue:


Thanks. It would be a bit ridiculous to charge the agency fee every month really, so I think you must be right. :smile:
Reply 12
Original post by Rascacielos
Oh gawd, that's one hell of a deposit. How did you manage to find a landlord without going through an agency?



Thanks. It would be a bit ridiculous to charge the agency fee every month really, so I think you must be right. :smile:


In the end, I found my studio through the recommendation of a previous year abroad student. She passed on her ex landlords details and I just gave the landlord a ring. Speaking to ex year abroaders is a good way to go: many of them will have contacts that they will be able to pass on to you.

If not, I saw plenty of adverts for spare rooms posted up around the city on noticeboards, especially around university buildings.

There's always appartager.fr and colocation.fr. which all advertise spare rooms in house shares etc. I know plenty of people that used these sites, they're great especially if you want to have French housemates. Also, it's often a good route to go as you're just filling in a spare room in an existing house share meaning that stuff like bills and internet is already set up ready for you. And trust me, stuff like that is such hassle here!

Either way, don't tie yourself down to anywhere before actually arriving in France. When you arrive, stay in a hostel or couch surf and look for somewhere in person. All the year abroaders here did that and the majority found permanent accomodation in around a week.
Original post by .Scout.
There's always appartager.fr and colocation.fr. which all advertise spare rooms in house shares etc. I know plenty of people that used these sites, they're great especially if you want to have French housemates. Also, it's often a good route to go as you're just filling in a spare room in an existing house share meaning that stuff like bills and internet is already set up ready for you. And trust me, stuff like that is such hassle here!

Either way, don't tie yourself down to anywhere before actually arriving in France. When you arrive, stay in a hostel or couch surf and look for somewhere in person. All the year abroaders here did that and the majority found permanent accomodation in around a week.


Can't recommend Appartager.fr enough. Arrived, set my profile up, had several landlords flash up as 'interested', I ring one of them and boom. Everything set up already, stuff like internet which is a hassle to get sorted in the UK. There seems to be a rich 'coloc' (housesharing with strangers) culture in France, so much so that even if you can pay for a studio flat, you might as well not because you might not have the conveniences already set up.
Reply 14
Original post by rockrunride
Can't recommend Appartager.fr enough. Arrived, set my profile up, had several landlords flash up as 'interested', I ring one of them and boom. Everything set up already, stuff like internet which is a hassle to get sorted in the UK. There seems to be a rich 'coloc' (housesharing with strangers) culture in France, so much so that even if you can pay for a studio flat, you might as well not because you might not have the conveniences already set up.


Whilst that all sounds really jolly, I really don't want to live with other people. I like my own space to live and work in, hence why I'm looking for a studio flat.
Original post by Rascacielos
Whilst that all sounds really jolly, I really don't want to live with other people. I like my own space to live and work in, hence why I'm looking for a studio flat.


Cool. Not sure about how easy landlords will be with renting periods, suppose everyone varies. Most flats going online are unfurnished but if you specify furnished (meublé) you'll be alright.
Reply 16
Original post by rockrunride
Cool. Not sure about how easy landlords will be with renting periods, suppose everyone varies. Most flats going online are unfurnished but if you specify furnished (meublé) you'll be alright.


I've found a couple of furnished ones. It's a bit early yet though. But thanks :smile:
Reply 17
Original post by Rascacielos
Whilst that all sounds really jolly, I really don't want to live with other people. I like my own space to live and work in, hence why I'm looking for a studio flat.


If you're going to be studying over there can you not get CROUS property? They're generally cheaper than private/coloc places and things such as your CAF, deposit etc. are easier through it too.

Where I was they had some studio flats, about 300e a month after CAF in quite an expensive part of the country (Strasbourg).
Reply 18
Ah yeah, make sure wherever you decide upon is eligible for CAF! I get 230 euros back a month on my studio, such a sweet deal.
Reply 19
Original post by roh
If you're going to be studying over there can you not get CROUS property? They're generally cheaper than private/coloc places and things such as your CAF, deposit etc. are easier through it too.

Where I was they had some studio flats, about 300e a month after CAF in quite an expensive part of the country (Strasbourg).


What's a CROUS property?

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