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Exciting Physics - open discussion to inspire!
I think physics today at A-level can often be uninspiring and somewhat boring for those that take it. It never seems to have much of a point and is, lets face it, all rather boring and tedious.
Princess Ana and I therefore think it is about time this forum had a thread to inspire; a thread where we can discuss higher level physics, real physics, so you can see the beauty hidden beneath the surface. The things they hide from you at A-level and tell you you'll learn later.
I hope this will enable you to see the elegance of physics, its simplicity and how exciting it can really be. So in this thread lets just have an open discussion. Talk about things you've read, or seen on tv... share your knowledge and interests!
If you are curious about high level concepts then ask, and maybe someone at uni, like us, will be able to answer it for you, to help you gain knowledge and understanding. Above all I hope this can be a thread of equals, without trying to outsmart each other or whatever. Lets just discuss how wonderful physics can be. We need more of you to do Physics at uni!
Princess Ana and I therefore think it is about time this forum had a thread to inspire; a thread where we can discuss higher level physics, real physics, so you can see the beauty hidden beneath the surface. The things they hide from you at A-level and tell you you'll learn later.
I hope this will enable you to see the elegance of physics, its simplicity and how exciting it can really be. So in this thread lets just have an open discussion. Talk about things you've read, or seen on tv... share your knowledge and interests!
If you are curious about high level concepts then ask, and maybe someone at uni, like us, will be able to answer it for you, to help you gain knowledge and understanding. Above all I hope this can be a thread of equals, without trying to outsmart each other or whatever. Lets just discuss how wonderful physics can be. We need more of you to do Physics at uni!
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Ok so lets start off with a topic on the tip of a lot of tongues... LHC, the new, soon to be opened (hopefully) Large Hadron Collider at CERN.
It will be the worlds largest particle accelerator, costing a cool €2.9 billion! Quite a lot when you consider the lack of funding for fusion research!
So whats the point, well it will produce energies particles with energies of 14TeV, which is an equivalent energy to the rest mass of 2 million electrons!
Like most accelerators, it works on the principle of using the charge of a particle to accelerate it in an electromagnetic field. An electric field gives it the kick and the magnetic field keeps the particle in a circular orbit, a circular accelerator such as this means the particle can go round and round again building up more and more energy.
The magnets required to keep these particles in the circular orbit is huge. The more energy they have the larger the force needed to maintain the orbit. Now the magnetic field, the B-field, depends on the current and LHC will use a current of 13 000 amps.
Now we know that power is I^2*R... so imagine the heat dissipated in these things! The only way to remove it is through the use of liquid helium so the magnets are super-conducting. The result is a field of over 8 tesla. The highest non-electromagnet is about 1 tesla... the highest in schools about 0.1T.
Such is the energy of these beams of particles, that were they to touch the sides of the magnet they would burn right through. The solution is a method called quenching, whereby energy is distributed over the whole magnet rather than just at a single point and is then dissipated into huge resistors.
The final problem is how to get rid of this high energy beam when its been used. There will be 2 beam dumps, 600m in length will dissipate the beam energy in 7m of steel coated carbon.
So whats the whole point? The point is to hopefully discover the Higgs boson, the sub-atomic particle supposedly responsible for mass. Its predicted by theory but energies havent got high enough to see it.
The higher the energies the more we can probe into the past and simulate conditions from the early universe. Maybe even observing the unification of the strong and weak nuclear forces with gravity. There is also the possibility of calculating the mass of super-symmetric particles.
Right, I hope that has wet your whistle... comments, reactions, questions, additions... discuss...
It will be the worlds largest particle accelerator, costing a cool €2.9 billion! Quite a lot when you consider the lack of funding for fusion research!
So whats the point, well it will produce energies particles with energies of 14TeV, which is an equivalent energy to the rest mass of 2 million electrons!
Like most accelerators, it works on the principle of using the charge of a particle to accelerate it in an electromagnetic field. An electric field gives it the kick and the magnetic field keeps the particle in a circular orbit, a circular accelerator such as this means the particle can go round and round again building up more and more energy.
The magnets required to keep these particles in the circular orbit is huge. The more energy they have the larger the force needed to maintain the orbit. Now the magnetic field, the B-field, depends on the current and LHC will use a current of 13 000 amps.
Now we know that power is I^2*R... so imagine the heat dissipated in these things! The only way to remove it is through the use of liquid helium so the magnets are super-conducting. The result is a field of over 8 tesla. The highest non-electromagnet is about 1 tesla... the highest in schools about 0.1T.
Such is the energy of these beams of particles, that were they to touch the sides of the magnet they would burn right through. The solution is a method called quenching, whereby energy is distributed over the whole magnet rather than just at a single point and is then dissipated into huge resistors.
The final problem is how to get rid of this high energy beam when its been used. There will be 2 beam dumps, 600m in length will dissipate the beam energy in 7m of steel coated carbon.
So whats the whole point? The point is to hopefully discover the Higgs boson, the sub-atomic particle supposedly responsible for mass. Its predicted by theory but energies havent got high enough to see it.
The higher the energies the more we can probe into the past and simulate conditions from the early universe. Maybe even observing the unification of the strong and weak nuclear forces with gravity. There is also the possibility of calculating the mass of super-symmetric particles.
Right, I hope that has wet your whistle... comments, reactions, questions, additions... discuss...
wow Stu, this looks great. Will properly participate tomorrow when i'm not falling asleep 
.
F1 fanatic
Ok so lets start off with a topic on the tip of a lot of tongues... LHC, the new, soon to be opened (hopefully) Large Hadron Collider at CERN.
It will be the worlds largest particle accelerator, costing a cool €2.9 billion! Quite a lot when you consider the lack of funding for fusion research!
So whats the point, well it will produce energies particles with energies of 14TeV, which is an equivalent energy to the rest mass of 2 million electrons!
Like most accelerators, it works on the principle of using the charge of a particle to accelerate it in an electromagnetic field. An electric field gives it the kick and the magnetic field keeps the particle in a circular orbit, a circular accelerator such as this means the particle can go round and round again building up more and more energy.
The magnets required to keep these particles in the circular orbit is huge. The more energy they have the larger the force needed to maintain the orbit. Now the magnetic field, the B-field, depends on the current and LHC will use a current of 13 000 amps.
Now we know that power is I^2*R... so imagine the heat dissipated in these things! The only way to remove it is through the use of liquid helium so the magnets are super-conducting. The result is a field of over 8 tesla. The highest non-electromagnet is about 1 tesla... the highest in schools about 0.1T.
Such is the energy of these beams of particles, that were they to touch the sides of the magnet they would burn right through. The solution is a method called quenching, whereby energy is distributed over the whole magnet rather than just at a single point and is then dissipated into huge resistors.
The final problem is how to get rid of this high energy beam when its been used. There will be 2 beam dumps, 600m in length will dissipate the beam energy in 7m of steel coated carbon.
So whats the whole point? The point is to hopefully discover the Higgs boson, the sub-atomic particle supposedly responsible for mass. Its predicted by theory but energies havent got high enough to see it.
The higher the energies the more we can probe into the past and simulate conditions from the early universe. Maybe even observing the unification of the strong and weak nuclear forces with gravity. There is also the possibility of calculating the mass of super-symmetric particles.
Right, I hope that has wet your whistle... comments, reactions, questions, additions... discuss...
It will be the worlds largest particle accelerator, costing a cool €2.9 billion! Quite a lot when you consider the lack of funding for fusion research!
So whats the point, well it will produce energies particles with energies of 14TeV, which is an equivalent energy to the rest mass of 2 million electrons!
Like most accelerators, it works on the principle of using the charge of a particle to accelerate it in an electromagnetic field. An electric field gives it the kick and the magnetic field keeps the particle in a circular orbit, a circular accelerator such as this means the particle can go round and round again building up more and more energy.
The magnets required to keep these particles in the circular orbit is huge. The more energy they have the larger the force needed to maintain the orbit. Now the magnetic field, the B-field, depends on the current and LHC will use a current of 13 000 amps.
Now we know that power is I^2*R... so imagine the heat dissipated in these things! The only way to remove it is through the use of liquid helium so the magnets are super-conducting. The result is a field of over 8 tesla. The highest non-electromagnet is about 1 tesla... the highest in schools about 0.1T.
Such is the energy of these beams of particles, that were they to touch the sides of the magnet they would burn right through. The solution is a method called quenching, whereby energy is distributed over the whole magnet rather than just at a single point and is then dissipated into huge resistors.
The final problem is how to get rid of this high energy beam when its been used. There will be 2 beam dumps, 600m in length will dissipate the beam energy in 7m of steel coated carbon.
So whats the whole point? The point is to hopefully discover the Higgs boson, the sub-atomic particle supposedly responsible for mass. Its predicted by theory but energies havent got high enough to see it.
The higher the energies the more we can probe into the past and simulate conditions from the early universe. Maybe even observing the unification of the strong and weak nuclear forces with gravity. There is also the possibility of calculating the mass of super-symmetric particles.
Right, I hope that has wet your whistle... comments, reactions, questions, additions... discuss...
Wow, €2.9 billion. That's quite a lot - although it's bloody big! (that thing has a cirumference of 27km, and crosses the border between France and Swizerland - it's a good job sub-atomic particles don't need passports).
The reason it's so difficult to reach these huge energies is due to relativity - the faster something goes, the more energy you need to accelerate. Already, these particles are getting to pretty near the speed of light, c. Of course, they can't go faster than c (as far as we know, Einstein seems to be pretty spot-on).
Something I find interesting is the idea that micro-black holes could possibly be produced in the LHC
If found, these would be good evidence for various theories which predict extra dimensions.Princess Ana
Wow, €2.9 billion. That's quite a lot - although it's bloody big! (that thing has a cirumference of 27km, and crosses the border between France and Swizerland - it's a good job sub-atomic particles don't need passports).
The reason it's so difficult to reach these huge energies is due to relativity - the faster something goes, the more energy you need to accelerate. Already, these particles are getting to pretty near the speed of light, c. Of course, they can't go faster than c (as far as we know, Einstein seems to be pretty spot-on).
Something I find interesting is the idea that micro-black holes could possibly be produced in the LHC If found, these would be good evidence for various theories which predict extra dimensions.
The reason it's so difficult to reach these huge energies is due to relativity - the faster something goes, the more energy you need to accelerate. Already, these particles are getting to pretty near the speed of light, c. Of course, they can't go faster than c (as far as we know, Einstein seems to be pretty spot-on).
Something I find interesting is the idea that micro-black holes could possibly be produced in the LHC
If found, these would be good evidence for various theories which predict extra dimensions.Go on then, calculate the speed. I'd do it myself but I've forgotten how. It will be as near as c as to be effectively c to all intents and purposes.
How does that black hole thing come about? I assume its to do with the energy density and quantum fluctuations, the energy is enough to warp space time in a very localised area, of course the time scale of its existence would be rediculously small. Of the order of 10^-21 I would guess. Thats another thing which interests me... quantum foam... very bizarre thing, but thats rather off the point.
JitsuCol
We need look no further than our own homes, factories and pylons outside for one of the most useful aspects of physics - electricity! The amount we have tamed with this mysterious power.
But, I am interested in electrical engineering...
But, I am interested in electrical engineering...
I was reading about electrical pylons the other day as part of my EM course. They are designed in quite a clever way. You see current travelling in a wire actually travels on the surface of the wire, the so called skin effect. So actually, a hollow piece of copper is just a good a conductor as a solid wire of equal diameter.
Its all due to the fact that in electromagnetism you consider either the currents and charges, or electromagnetic radiation travelling free of the wires. If you take the latter, when you look at the boundary conditions of the Electric and magnetic field entering the wire, you find the wave must decay away in the wire due to an imaginary refractive index... its all quite interesting stuff. What this means is that an electric pylon has a lot higher resistance than you would expect it to, but, you can have a high conducting outer shell, with most of the wire made up of cheaper, sturdy, less conductive material.
F1 fanatic
What this means is that an electric pylon has a lot higher resistance than you would expect it to, but, you can have a high conducting outer shell, with most of the wire made up of cheaper, sturdy, less conductive material.
That is very interesting stuff
. I'm glad I learnt at least some of that since I managed to keep on physics for over a year here at Uni. Indeed, that explains why insulators on pylons have ridges along them to extend the path of conduction. Still, being a lowly engineer I'll leave you physics guys to pull out the discoveries. We'll turn it into stuff that works for us .F1 fanatic
Go on then, calculate the speed. I'd do it myself but I've forgotten how. It will be as near as c as to be effectively c to all intents and purposes.
Hmmm.
E=14 × 1012eV = 2.24 × 10-30J
m= 1.67262158 × 10-27 kg
Hence v/c = 1
Obviously, v isn't c, because the particles would have to be mass-less (like photons), but that means that v is close enough to c for my calculator not to be able to tell the difference. So I think you're right.
JitsuCol
That is very interesting stuff . I'm glad I learnt at least some of that since I managed to keep on physics for over a year here at Uni. Indeed, that explains why insulators on pylons have ridges along them to extend the path of conduction. Still, being a lowly engineer I'll leave you physics guys to pull out the discoveries. We'll turn it into stuff that works for us .
. I'm glad I learnt at least some of that since I managed to keep on physics for over a year here at Uni. Indeed, that explains why insulators on pylons have ridges along them to extend the path of conduction. Still, being a lowly engineer I'll leave you physics guys to pull out the discoveries. We'll turn it into stuff that works for us .Sorry, that wasnt intended to belittle you... so out of interest how much of this kinda stuff do engineers do? How much pure EM I mean.
F1 fanatic
Sorry, that wasnt intended to belittle you... so out of interest how much of this kinda stuff do engineers do? How much pure EM I mean.
(Is okay!) Since I'm only a 2nd year engineer (which, being in Scotland, means it's not quite up to England), not a great deal of pure EM yet. In physics we covered a great deal, going through all that Maxwell malarky (perhaps a poor choice of words, it was actually very cool!). I believe us engineers go through it in proper at a later stage than the physicists do. This is most likely because the focus of our course is different, learning basic circuit theory being more useful than pondering fundamental laws at an early stage.
Nevertheless, pure EM will become an integral part of our course, it simply isn't an option for an electrical engineer to not be at least aware of Maxwell's incredible insights!
Princess Ana mentioned relativity earlier, and like a lot of A-level physicists this was something that I thought was completely over my head (only in Lower 6th). However, this year I have been reading quite a lot about physics and chemistry outside the curriculum, and I was advised to read:
Relativity: the special and the general theory, by Einstein himself. He does not go into detail on a lot of it, especially the mathematics behind it, but it is quite easy to read, and at no point did I feel completely lost. If anyone wants to get a bit of a grasp about relativity, I would definitely recommend this book.
PK
Relativity: the special and the general theory, by Einstein himself. He does not go into detail on a lot of it, especially the mathematics behind it, but it is quite easy to read, and at no point did I feel completely lost. If anyone wants to get a bit of a grasp about relativity, I would definitely recommend this book.
PK
Doesn't this hugely powerful magnet have bad effects on the surrounding towns? Surely everything made of magnetic materials in the vicinity would be drawn towards it?
M1N1
Princess Ana mentioned relativity earlier, and like a lot of A-level physicists this was something that I thought was completely over my head (only in Lower 6th). However, this year I have been reading quite a lot about physics and chemistry outside the curriculum, and I was advised to read:
Relativity: the special and the general theory, by Einstein himself. He does not go into detail on a lot of it, especially the mathematics behind it, but it is quite easy to read, and at no point did I feel completely lost. If anyone wants to get a bit of a grasp about relativity, I would definitely recommend this book.
PK
Relativity: the special and the general theory, by Einstein himself. He does not go into detail on a lot of it, especially the mathematics behind it, but it is quite easy to read, and at no point did I feel completely lost. If anyone wants to get a bit of a grasp about relativity, I would definitely recommend this book.
PK
Very true, and I know I felt the same, until I read a little on it in my spare time. At its simplest, it doesn't really need anything other than basic maths, and a lot of the conceptual stuff is very interesting, albeit wierd [although, if you really want some weird physics, quantum physics is also accessible (lots of pop. books out there), and very very strange].
This may be appropriate for this thread:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6586235597476141009&q=feynman&pl=true
The pleasure of finding things out - RP Feynman
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6586235597476141009&q=feynman&pl=true
The pleasure of finding things out - RP Feynman
The Centipe
Doesn't this hugely powerful magnet have bad effects on the surrounding towns? Surely everything made of magnetic materials in the vicinity would be drawn towards it?
That's just a diagram overlaid on the surface, to show you scale. The real thing is 100 metres underground.
Princess Ana
That's just a diagram overlaid on the surface, to show you scale. The real thing is 100 metres underground.
Ahhh
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