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Breaking News: if you have Aspergers the law doesn't apply to you

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Reply 20
Original post by PopaPork
It’s what the Americans say it cost to close the security loophole that he exploited.

If they had good security in the first place this would not have been an issue.

They just want to make an ‘example’ of someone for daring to show how **** their network security was.


Instead of imprisoning him, it would probably be more ideal to hire him.
Afterall, all of the IT wizzes that the NSA hire, you would have thought they would have been able to defend an information database, from a guy on his computer in his bedroom.

The Chinese and Russian Security Agencies must be having a field day, if Gary can hack into them...
Reply 21
Original post by Debdener
Instead of imprisoning him, it would probably be more ideal to hire him.
Afterall, all of the IT wizzes that the NSA hire, you would have thought they would have been able to defend an information database, from a guy on his computer in his bedroom.

The Chinese and Russian Security Agencies must be having a field day, if Gary can hack into them...



That's the point any decent network engineer would have prevented the attack.

It was their own fault for not closing a known loophole and vulnerability.

Lazy on their part hence the desperation to blame someone and the over inflated ‘cost’ of the attack

It’s a bit like having your computer at school used to send a malicious email from your account even after you’ve been told to lock the screen while you are away or not stay logged into your email on a shared PC.

While it’s obviously wrong to take advantage you would have to at least accept some responsibility.
Reply 22
Original post by PopaPork
That's the point any decent network engineer would have prevented the attack.

It was their own fault for not closing a known loophole and vulnerability.

Lazy on their part hence the desperation to blame someone and the over inflated ‘cost’ of the attack

It’s a bit like having your computer at school used to send a malicious email from your account even after you’ve been told to lock the screen while you are away or not stay logged into your email on a shared PC.

While it’s obviously wrong to take advantage you would have to at least accept some responsibility.


How do you know exactly how Mckinnon hacked the network? I don't remember the Americans releasing those details.

And even if the system was flawed - if someone leaves their door open it doesn't entitle me to go and steal their TV. If I choose to do so, I've committed a crime.
Prosecuting McKinnon in the UK would have been problematic. If you read the joint CPS/MPS statement, they detail some of the issues which would have come up. The fact is that the CPS, MPS and the UK Courts were of the opinion that McKinnon should have gone to the USA to face trial. This is a position which both authorities still maintain. It was the Home Secretary who, somewhat randomly, blocked his extradition. She then, as she always seems to do, just passed on the fallout to a lower body.

I am not surprised that he isn't being prosecuted here. I do not think it is fair to say that this is purely down to the fact that he has Aspergers, since the prosecuting authorities were happy for him to face trial... just at the right venue.

Having said that, I find the run of events wholly unsatisfactory. Especially in light of the fact that other people, indicted for similar offences and suffering similar illnesses, have been extradited.
Reply 24
His mental health is also taken into account besides his AS
Reply 25
Original post by InnerTemple
Prosecuting McKinnon in the UK would have been problematic. If you read the joint CPS/MPS statement, they detail some of the issues which would have come up. The fact is that the CPS, MPS and the UK Courts were of the opinion that McKinnon should have gone to the USA to face trial. This is a position which both authorities still maintain. It was the Home Secretary who, somewhat randomly, blocked his extradition. She then, as she always seems to do, just passed on the fallout to a lower body.

I am not surprised that he isn't being prosecuted here. I do not think it is fair to say that this is purely down to the fact that he has Aspergers, since the prosecuting authorities were happy for him to face trial... just at the right venue.

Having said that, I find the run of events wholly unsatisfactory. Especially in light of the fact that other people, indicted for similar offences and suffering similar illnesses, have been extradited.


I agree that he should have been extradited. But if we can't bring a case against a man who has spent the last ten years admitting his crime, then our prosecution service is pretty inefficient.
Reply 26
Original post by Morgsie
His mental health is also taken into account besides his AS


Well the reason for refusing to extradite him was his suicide risk. I think that's incredible. I'll try that one:

"Sorry officer, I'd love to stand trial for my crimes but if you charge me with a crime I might kill myself. So I'm afraid you'll have to let me go."

The Home Secretary had nothing else to go on because every other court had cleared his extradition. It was just politicians pandering to potential voters.
Reply 27
The fact that he can't be tried here is understandable - what he did is not our jurisdiction.

Gary McKinnon should have been extradited years ago, it's only because successive home secretaries wanted to score political points that he wasn't. The judicial system should not be politicised like this.
Reply 28
The reason why this collapsed because prosecution would be slim.

Her approval ratings shot up after that announcement
Reply 29
Original post by paddyman4
How do you know exactly how Mckinnon hacked the network? I don't remember the Americans releasing those details.


It's been in the news and technical news since it happened (if you were interested in the case rather than just trying to compare oranges and a turd:smile: you would know this

He exploited a known vulnerability (and if it’s known a network engineer should have closed the door)

And even if the system was flawed - if someone leaves their door open it doesn't entitle me to go and steal their TV. If I choose to do so, I've committed a crime.



But if your Job is to ensure the building is kept secure and you leave a door open then you need to accept you failed in your Job and while this doesn’t in any way excuse the thief you have to admit you’d done a terrible Job.
Gary Mckinnon lives in Enfield :biggrin: where I live too.

Nearly every issue of the local newspaper had some article related to the consequences of his actions, the same story over and over again.
Reply 31
Original post by PopaPork
It's been in the news and technical news since it happened (if you were interested in the case rather than just trying to compare oranges and a turd:smile: you would know this

He exploited a known vulnerability (and if it’s known a network engineer should have closed the door)




But if your Job is to ensure the building is kept secure and you leave a door open then you need to accept you failed in your Job and while this doesn’t in any way excuse the thief you have to admit you’d done a terrible Job.


So therefore you admit Gary Mckinnon is in no way excused by an alleged security flaw. Logically then, your discussion of the security flaw is irrelevant to the discussion about what should have happened to Gary Mckinnon.

Glad we cleared that up.
Mental illness isn't a free pass to crime, but it can mean that the person has "diminished responsibility". This is because they wouldn't have the full capacity of reasoning that a normal person would have.
Reply 33
Original post by paddyman4


Glad we cleared that up.



No we haven’t

This is the right decision

Why are you so upset about it?
Reply 34
He did the Yanks a massive favour by exposing how crap their security systems are
Reply 35
Original post by Morgsie
He did the Yanks a massive favour by exposing how crap their security systems are


He did and they were lucky

Just imagine the damage he could have done if he was being really malicious and it would have been a different story had this been the case.

As I’ve thought all along the Americans want to punish him because he exposed just how crap their security actually was.
Original post by Morgsie
He did the Yanks a massive favour by exposing how crap their security systems are


Well he actually caused them a bit of a headache really. He deleted a bunch of files which rendered certain parts of their military inoperable. While this undoubtedly reveals some security flaws, it is by know means a justification or even a mitigation of his actions.

Original post by paddyman4
I agree that he should have been extradited. But if we can't bring a case against a man who has spent the last ten years admitting his crime, then our prosecution service is pretty inefficient.


I can understand why this would appear odd and what you have said highlights just one of many problems. McKinnon has admitted to gaining access to the computer systems, but it is not clear how far his admission accords with the charges against him. He says he was just, harmlessly, looking for information about UFOs. The US government alleged that his actions were, in fact, an anti American attack designed to cause real damage to US infrastructure.

With that in mind, even if Mr Mckinnon were to plead guilty, actually establishing a basis of plea (i.e. an agreement between prosecution and defence on exactly what level of criminality occurred and the facts concerning that criminality) would be extremely hard. It would have been likely that a hearing would have to be held on the matter, which would necessitate the examination of evidence unavailable to the CPS. (See further the statement where evidential concerns are discussed generally).

So although we are in this position where Mr McKinnon has admitted to doing something... the UK actually has no case against him.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 37
I would not be surprised if Gary and Janice sue
Reply 38
Original post by Morgsie
I would not be surprised if Gary and Janice sue


For what? He committed a crime, and he should pay the price
Reply 39
Original post by Cephalus
For what? He committed a crime, and he should pay the price


He has not been convicted though, the reason is that both the USA and UK Government's have caused him a lot anguish

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