The Student Room Group
My American friend who is doing his PhD now in Computer Science (he's a UC Berkeley grad) tells me that the US PhD is more highly regarded world-wide because it's more indepth and thorough.

However, you'll have lost several years because it takes longer and I'm sure a UK citizen wouldn't be thought badly of for having studied within the UK, as opposed to abroad. Also consider that US salaries are much higher within academia and the likelihood of obtaining a position upon completion of the programme will differ between the two countries.
Reply 2
alexeynechaev
Out of interest, does anybody know how long in takes to complete a PhD in the UK and the USA?

As far as I am aware, the normal time in the UK is between 3 and 3.5 year. In the USA, it is between 5 and 8 years, due to the teaching requirements and tuition. Is there a significant difference between the quality of the degree, provided that it is a from a top university?

For History as an example it takes 5-6 years to do a masters-PhD program, whereas it usually takes 1 year for a masters in UK, and 3 years for a PhD (so 4 years total, although it can be possible to skip the masters in the UK). Of course in either system finishing your PhD thesis can drag on for additional years.
Reply 3
I am talking more about the fields of economics and econometrics. All the American websites I have looked at so far require at least two years of you teaching undergraduate students, and before that there are the 2 years with taught courses- is it realistic to actually undertake any research during this time and write a dissertation, or would that be too difficult?

Edit: I realise that different people have different capabilities etc:p:, but on average...
I'd suggest you email the universities you're interested in and ask them. It's in their interest to make the course attractive to you so they should be able to help you.
Reply 5
Isnt the structure very different in america? a phd in the uk is research only (unless is a professional doctorate like EdD or DClinPsych) - but in the US there is a big taught component?

Many UK universities now offer a new route PhD (which I took) which is a masters in research methodologies (1 year) + 3rd pure research PhD. A lot of the new route PhDs students I know (including me) have an additional masters in top of this.

I guess you need to check out what the content of a USA PhD is - in Canada (Toronto EdD and PhD) the structure is very taught and the thesis is a lot smaller but there is coursework to do.
Reply 6
fuglyduckling
My American friend who is doing his PhD now in Computer Science (he's a UC Berkeley grad) tells me that the US PhD is more highly regarded world-wide because it's more indepth and thorough.


Thats not entirely true. Perhaps in some circles in the business world a Berkeley PhD would be considered "more thorough". But at the end of the day a PhD is a PhD, an original piece of research - thoroughness depends on the individual not the University (as opposed to undergraduate level studies where the thoroughness of the course depends on the university). In academic circles what truly matters is the quality of the research. Sure more prestigious universities will produce better research, but that may be due to self selection rather than anything else. Whats important at the PhD level is your supervisor and the quality of your work, the name of your university counts for little.
Reply 7
Minstrel
Thats not entirely true. Perhaps in some circles in the business world a Berkeley PhD would be considered "more thorough". But at the end of the day a PhD is a PhD, an original piece of research - thoroughness depends on the individual not the University (as opposed to undergraduate level studies where the thoroughness of the course depends on the university). In academic circles what truly matters is the quality of the research. Sure more prestigious universities will produce better research, but that may be due to self selection rather than anything else. Whats important at the PhD level is your supervisor and the quality of your work, the name of your university counts for little.


Also, I think the reason why American PhD's take so long is because of the taught component, not because of the depth. I guess the fact that in the US undergraduate education is broader requires for you to study things in more depth once you get to graduate level to "make up" for things you didn't focus on as an undergraduate. As in the UK we get a focused education since the first year, it makes sense to have a 3-year-research-only PhD.

That said, probably American institutions have much more money to invest into research and the taught component of the PhD can help in keeping your memory fresh about different topics and come up with new ideas.

Ps. That's not to say a Berkeley PhD is not highly regarded world-wide, as Berkeley is an excellent uni!
Reply 8
kalen
Also, I think the reason why American PhD's take so long is because of the taught component, not because of the depth.

I totally agree, they are not in any greater depth, the only thing you learn from an American PhD that you dont from a UK one is how to teach - be a 'Teaching Assistant' and lead undergraduate 'sections' (review classes). :smile:
Reply 9
Thanks for the information.

In addition, I was wondering whether it is possible to skip the Masters stage in a UK university and go straight on to a PhD in economics. I know that this is possible in physics and mathematics, since I am aware of people having done that, however I was wondering whether anybody knows what the situation with economics may be.

Regards,
Alexey
fuglyduckling
My American friend who is doing his PhD now in Computer Science (he's a UC Berkeley grad) tells me that the US PhD is more highly regarded world-wide because it's more indepth and thorough.


I'm afraid that isn't true. US PhDs are longer because of taught components and research not directly to do with your thesis project. If you want a PhD that is a cut above the rest study in Sweden.
Reply 11
ChemistBoy
If you want a PhD that is a cut above the rest study in Sweden.

As a Swede, I'm very curious about the rationale behind this statement.

There is a substantial advantage with doing a PhD in Sweden in the sense that they are almost always paid and considered to be a "job" (unless you're doing something very "artsy", in which case you would have to find funding for maintenance by yourself). There is usually a teaching requirement.

The time to complete a PhD is very much dependent on the individual, although 4 years seems to be standard (with some people finishing in 3 years and some people dragging on for 5-6 years; my dad, who's educating PhD's in chemistry is of the opinion that you shouldn't have been there in the first place if you can't finish on time... :rolleyes: ).

For entry, you would either need a magisterexamen from a university (which is a 3+1 year degree at present, but considered equivalent to a 3 year bachelor degree by most UK universities), or a civilingenjörsexamen (4.5 years science/engineering, probably almost like a master's degree from a UK university).

In general, I fail to see how the Swedish PhD is "cut above the rest". According to my dad, it will be more in depth than an American one, but very similar to, say, UK ones.

To get something "cut above the rest" you should consider something like Italy, where a PhD admittedly requires 8-10 years. :eek:

Personally, I would very much like to do grad studies in the US. This is partly because my undergrad degree here is quite broad (I would appreciate some more specialised taught courses), and more importantly because I really really enjoy teaching and couldn't fund grad studies without working in the meantime.
Reply 12
In Italy all degrees take long not because they're in depth or particularly difficult but because you can give exams whenever you want and re-take them as many times as you want which produces unbelievable amounts of lazy students: one of my best friends started his Bachelor's degree (which should technically last three years, same as in the UK) a year before I did and is quite likely not to graduate before end of 2006-2007 - that's 5-6 years for a Bachelor's. Although most of my friends finished in 4 years.
Also, lots of professors don't give a damn about the students and can even simply not show up for oral exams, so that you're forced to post-pone to another exams session.

I think how long it takes to graduate is not a reliable indicator of the depth of a degree.
tangsiuje
As a Swede, I'm very curious about the rationale behind this statement.

There is a substantial advantage with doing a PhD in Sweden in the sense that they are almost always paid and considered to be a "job" (unless you're doing something very "artsy", in which case you would have to find funding for maintenance by yourself). There is usually a teaching requirement.

The time to complete a PhD is very much dependent on the individual, although 4 years seems to be standard (with some people finishing in 3 years and some people dragging on for 5-6 years; my dad, who's educating PhD's in chemistry is of the opinion that you shouldn't have been there in the first place if you can't finish on time... :rolleyes: ).

For entry, you would either need a magisterexamen from a university (which is a 3+1 year degree at present, but considered equivalent to a 3 year bachelor degree by most UK universities), or a civilingenjörsexamen (4.5 years science/engineering, probably almost like a master's degree from a UK university).

In general, I fail to see how the Swedish PhD is "cut above the rest". According to my dad, it will be more in depth than an American one, but very similar to, say, UK ones.

To get something "cut above the rest" you should consider something like Italy, where a PhD admittedly requires 8-10 years. :eek:

Personally, I would very much like to do grad studies in the US. This is partly because my undergrad degree here is quite broad (I would appreciate some more specialised taught courses), and more importantly because I really really enjoy teaching and couldn't fund grad studies without working in the meantime.


You generally get more publications out of a swedish PhD (as you can actually present your publications bound up as a thesis. This makes it better than most other theses systems where either you get less publications or your publications come at a period after your PhD where they are not as much help in securing an academic position.
unless you do a phd by publications
The Boosh
unless you do a phd by publications


In science that isn't possible.

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