[pintsizedblondie]

I am starting a Primary PGCE course at the University of Hull in September of this year, so just to clarify none of the changes will affect me regarding the QTS tests, ie I will still get unlimited resits and take them during my course? I thought I had read as such on the TES website, but since this has been archived I can't find that information anywhere and read a post on the TES forum saying the changes WOULD affect 2012 students. Very confused!!

[glittersticks]

(Original post by pintsizedblondie)
I am starting a Primary PGCE course at the University of Hull in September of this year, so just to clarify none of the changes will affect me regarding the QTS tests, ie I will still get unlimited resits and take them during my course? I thought I had read as such on the TES website, but since this has been archived I can't find that information anywhere and read a post on the TES forum saying the changes WOULD affect 2012 students. Very confused!!

Only trainees starting a course that begins after July 1st 2013 will be required to pass the skills tests before starting their course. However, to answer your question - any entrants after 1st September 2012 will have only 3 attempts to pass the tests - this also affects any teachers on existing teaching degree courses who will not take their skills tests until after this point (if they've had previously unsuccessful attempts these will not count towards their total).

If anyone's interested they can read the government's guidance here which explains it a little better: http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/...4001/qts-tests

[balloon_parade]

They aren't really all that bad. As long as you prepare thoroughly you should be fine, the people I know who have failed numerous times are the ones who think they don't need to practice. Sometimes it's just silly things you've forgotten, I'd definitely recommend the Jim Johnson 'Achieving QTS' Skills tests books, especially for the Maths test if you're rusty!

[glittersticks]

(Original post by balloon_parade)
They aren't really all that bad. As long as you prepare thoroughly you should be fine, the people I know who have failed numerous times are the ones who think they don't need to practice. Sometimes it's just silly things you've forgotten, I'd definitely recommend the Jim Johnson 'Achieving QTS' Skills tests books, especially for the Maths test if you're rusty!

Thanks for the tip, I might look into those books. I think you're right, it's about being familiar with the format of the tests and having practice as well as knowing the facts.

[Missyme73]

(Original post by glittersticks)
Thanks for the tip, I might look into those books. I think you're right, it's about being familiar with the format of the tests and having practice as well as knowing the facts.

Hi .... You can also have a go at the tests online on the TDA site. This will give you an idea of any gaps in your knowledge and what to brush up on! I wanted to take the tests prior to starting in Sept 2012, but this is not an option! £9000 is a lot to pay if you fail! However, the tests are nothing too difficult and with a little revision should be passed fairly easily!

[glittersticks]

(Original post by Missyme73)
Hi .... You can also have a go at the tests online on the TDA site. This will give you an idea of any gaps in your knowledge and what to brush up on! I wanted to take the tests prior to starting in Sept 2012, but this is not an option! £9000 is a lot to pay if you fail! However, the tests are nothing too difficult and with a little revision should be passed fairly easily!

Yeah, I've tried a few of them. They seem okay although the mental maths one is a bit tough simply because I find it hard to do a question when it's read out to me. If I jot it down the first time it's read out and ignore the second reading that seems to work better.

Also, you wouldn't have to pay £9000 per se. There are 3 points of fee liability: 25% paid in September, 25% in January and the remaining 50% in the third term (March/April). So it's more like £2250 if you took them in the autumn term - still a lot, though O.o.

I'm a little nervous just because of the format of the tests, but obviously would-be teachers should be able to pass these. It's just a question of practice, and hopefully the resit limit will make people bear in mind that a little revision goes a long way.

[Missyme73]

(Original post by glittersticks)
Yeah, I've tried a few of them. They seem okay although the mental maths one is a bit tough simply because I find it hard to do a question when it's read out to me. If I jot it down the first time it's read out and ignore the second reading that seems to work better.

Also, you wouldn't have to pay £9000 per se. There are 3 points of fee liability: 25% paid in September, 25% in January and the remaining 50% in the third term (March/April). So it's more like £2250 if you took them in the autumn term - still a lot, though O.o.

I'm a little nervous just because of the format of the tests, but obviously would-be teachers should be able to pass these. It's just a question of practice, and hopefully the resit limit will make people bear in mind that a little revision goes a long way.

Ah right, I thought student finance ust paid the whole £9000 in one go. I know student loans/grants are paid in 3 parts ... I hope it's split equally though and not as you describe the fee payments.

I agree with you about the tests, it's not necessarily a lack of knowledge/understanding but a case of getting used to the format. I am also concerned about the time allocated. I found it difficult not having the test question on the screen, but then did the test that said with MA. At the risk of sounding dumb, I don't really know what the MA means but the question was displayed on the screen. It is difficult listening to the audio, I jotted down the main info and like you, I either ignored it the 2nd time or double checked my info. I'm sure we will be fine and I intend to sit them asap! I shall revise over the summer... I don't want them hanging over me! Although, if I fail I will have no job to return to until the course finishes ... another slight worry hehe!

[glittersticks]

(Original post by Missyme73)
Ah right, I thought student finance ust paid the whole £9000 in one go. I know student loans/grants are paid in 3 parts ... I hope it's split equally though and not as you describe the fee payments.

I agree with you about the tests, it's not necessarily a lack of knowledge/understanding but a case of getting used to the format. I am also concerned about the time allocated. I found it difficult not having the test question on the screen, but then did the test that said with MA. At the risk of sounding dumb, I don't really know what the MA means but the question was displayed on the screen. It is difficult listening to the audio, I jotted down the main info and like you, I either ignored it the 2nd time or double checked my info. I'm sure we will be fine and I intend to sit them asap! I shall revise over the summer... I don't want them hanging over me! Although, if I fail I will have no job to return to until the course finishes ... another slight worry hehe!

Your maintenance loan/grant payments are split equally into thirds - don't worry. I know what you mean, I think it's best to try and book in for the tests as soon as we get our registration number in the autumn - we'll have enough else to worry about. I think as long as we practice we'll be fine.

[kpwxx]

(Original post by Koldbeer)
Right there seems to be some confusion about the QTS tests so I'll try and clear them up based on what I've read.

The new 'tests' are being introduced from September 2012 and they are indeed 'Enrolling tests' which future students (those starting in September 2013) will need to do before they even start their training.

So what does this mean for 2012 entry students? It means that the QTS remains the same as they are now, the changes are being brought in for students enrolling September 2013. I believe there is no 'cap' (though I'm not 100% certain of that, I'll do more digging to confirm either way) on the amount of attempts for 2012-2013 students, but there is the widely discussed cap of three attempts for the new enrollment tests.

The only thing that 2012-2013 students will have to face is a higher pass percentage, though quite how high I don't think anyone knows yet.

I was also confused about how things worked till I read this on the TDA site:

"trainees starting an initial teacher training (ITT) course from September 2013 will be required to pass the skills tests before starting their course. The pass mark for these tests will be raised and the number of resits allowed will be limited to two. The requirements for candidates starting courses in the 2012 academic year remain unchanged; candidates are required to pass the skills tests in their final year of study (with the current exceptions for those on flexible routes into teaching). However, subject to parliamentary approval of changes to the relevant regulations, the ICT test will no longer be a requirement for achieving qualified teacher status (QTS) from April 2012."

I was reading/posting on TES and I understood that the 3 try limit would be introduced from Sep 2012, leaving us 2012 starters and those finishing longer courses next year in the awkward position of risking the loss of our tuition fees if we don't pass.

Some people have spoken to the TDA on the phone to ask about what happens if someone pays 9k for a PGCE and then fails the test three times (as we don't have the option to sit before we start) and they answered with 'I don't know'. Another case of not considering those caught in the transition I suppose! The same as Student finance next year and bursaries for this year

xxx

[balloon_parade]

(Original post by kpwxx)
I was reading/posting on TES and I understood that the 3 try limit would be introduced from Sep 2012, leaving us 2012 starters and those finishing longer courses next year in the awkward position of risking the loss of our tuition fees if we don't pass.

Some people have spoken to the TDA on the phone to ask about what happens if someone pays 9k for a PGCE and then fails the test three times (as we don't have the option to sit before we start) and they answered with 'I don't know'. Another case of not considering those caught in the transition I suppose! The same as Student finance next year and bursaries for this year

xxx

You'll pass though so don't worry about it! I think if I can pass them all first time then anyone can! Just be prepared!

[pintsizedblondie]

I've read on the Government website it's 2 attempts you get not 3. There's still some stuff on there that makes me unsure about whether they're bringing it in to effect in 2012 or 2013 though!

[glittersticks]

(Original post by pintsizedblondie)
I've read on the Government website it's 2 attempts you get not 3. There's still some stuff on there that makes me unsure about whether they're bringing it in to effect in 2012 or 2013 though!

It's two resits, three attempts.

[Shelly_x]

Seriously people read the link glittersticks posted!
Yes there is a limit for 2012 entry people:
"The number of resits allowed will be limited to two per subject from 1 September 2012. This will apply to existing trainee teachers, as well as those who are applying to ITT providers for courses that will begin from 1 July 2013. Previous unsuccessful attempts by any existing trainees will not count towards this limit; any test they take from 1 September 2012 will count as their first attempt."

For those entering in 2013:
"Anyone applying for an initial teacher training (ITT) course which starts after 1 July 2013 will be required to have passed the skills tests before starting the course"

If you fail the tests after three attempts then you get a two year ban on taking them again, and thus achieveing QTS:
"Candidates who fail after two resits in either numeracy or literacy will not be able to take any more skills tests, in either subject, for 24 months from the date of the second resit. This gives candidates a reasonable time during which they can become proficient at the skills assessed in the tests before further retakes."

[Shelly_x]

(Original post by kpwxx)
I was reading/posting on TES and I understood that the 3 try limit would be introduced from Sep 2012, leaving us 2012 starters and those finishing longer courses next year in the awkward position of risking the loss of our tuition fees if we don't pass.

Some people have spoken to the TDA on the phone to ask about what happens if someone pays 9k for a PGCE and then fails the test three times (as we don't have the option to sit before we start) and they answered with 'I don't know'. Another case of not considering those caught in the transition I suppose! The same as Student finance next year and bursaries for this year

xxx

If you fail the tests three time then you won't be allowed to retake them (and therefore achieve QTS) for two years.

[kpwxx]

(Original post by Shelly_x)
If you fail the tests three time then you won't be allowed to retake them (and therefore achieve QTS) for two years.

Yeah, thanks

I am glad that they've announced it will be a two year ban, rather than lifetime. I can see the merit in limiting resits but after two years + someone could have vastly improved their skills... I think in general the new system is good because it will encourage people to really try and actually improve the skills rather than keep resitting till they get lucky. It's only unfortunate for those in the crossover who can't sit before starting.

I'm also presuming that provisions are already/will be made for those with specific needs, for example I saw someone speaking with dyslexia whose working memory meant they couldn't process the mental maths questions fast enough (they'd forgotten the next numbers by the time they did the first calculation) despite being in a job where they do high level maths.

xxx

[beckye]

I don't know anyone who has failed the tests more than once, they aren't too tricky. The hardest thing I found was the mental arithmetic. I struggle with maths and had to re-take my GCSE to get onto the course and I passed my QTS maths

[pintsizedblondie]

Sorry if I'm being thick here, but how can you have two resits and three attempts?

[kpwxx]

(Original post by pintsizedblondie)
Sorry if I'm being thick here, but how can you have two resits and three attempts?

You sit the test, for free, and if you fail it you're allowed to try again twice more for a fee each time.

Two resits, three total attempts.

Xxx

[vcherry]

Hi,

Im wondering if anyone can help me.

I am due to take my skills test this week and next week, but for some reason i can not access the practice tests online anymore. When i know they were available to do online in the last few months :s

Really panicing because i dont want to go into my tests without practicing them!

Ahhh help.

[kpwxx]

(Original post by vcherry)
Hi,

Im wondering if anyone can help me.

I am due to take my skills test this week and next week, but for some reason i can not access the practice tests online anymore. When i know they were available to do online in the last few months :s

Really panicing because i dont want to go into my tests without practicing them!

Ahhh help.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/...evelopment/qts

Click numeracy or literacy skills test on the list, each page should have a link to the relevant tests.

I assume they are up to date, though it's hard to tell with the government destroying old websites without replacing them properly. I hate this new site layout too.

Xxx