Please stop the murder of healthy badgers!!!

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Thanks for signing guys, almost 1000 new signatures in 3 days.

I'm sure Krebs would be turning in his grave. 10 years of research and the government and media cherry pick sentences to suit it to themselves. Krebs proved that culling was not the answer. Culling works in the area of the cull, however it increases the prevalence of TB in adjacent areas. This is due to badgers (possibly infected) escaping the cull, and also due to badgers then re-entering the areas after the cull. In short, the culling forces movement in badgers which in turn increases the prevalence of bovine TB in areas with no cull. Vaccines are not completely viable as they are also expensive, but so is culling Britain's biggest predator. Defra has invested over £16 million on research into badger vaccines since 1994 and over £23 million in cattle vaccine research. Sounds pricey, but if we consider the cost of culling in the most recent culling proposal: policingcosts have been estimated at £500,000 per cull over four years as well as £100,000 a year for a pilot cull. If it takes nine years to reduce the occurrence of TB in cattle by 16% and the two pilot culls proposed are done each year in one area, that nine years could cost £3.8 million pounds (including only eight years of policing costs). Should culling prevent the transmission of bovine TB and nothing alters in these two environments, to reach 100% disease free in two areas alone will cost more than £23.8 million pounds based on the above costs alone. What we should be investing our money and research into is more routine TB testing, being more rigorous in TB surveillance and regulations. Investing in an oral vaccine for badgers and a vaccine for not only cattle, but for other species that are affected by the disease, would be a suitable choice. We need to ensure we can get all farmers on board with the vaccine.

Reply 42

3 Phase Duck

Was this petition created by Dr Brian May as in Dr Brian May guitarist from queen?

Also I signed. :smile:

Reply 43

amymcclung

That's disgusting using taxpayers money for such a pointless act! No wonder the economies in tatters!

Reply 44

Naivasha

Vaccination in itself will not solve the problem of TB, it needs to be a mix of culling and vaccination. All other nonendangered species are culled annually, badgers are in greater number than foxes but are still protected species so why can't this be lifted as clearly numbers are at a healthy level? They not also spread TB but take healthy lambs and I have seen one eat the udder of a sick but alive ewe and leave the rest of her, even a fox wouldn't do that.

I enjoy seeing wildlife out in the fields, but I do not like seeing healthy cattle being taken off for slaughter as they are a inconclusive reactor and when I have seen 150cows in one herd go over a year that is not right to me. People claim its the farmers fault for not managing the herd correctly, when a farmer loses a cow they are not given that cows value in compensation, nor are they compensated for the calf being carried or loss of milk production, so overall they suffer a large loss, so why would they not try everything to stop the badger getting in?

Alternative solutions to culling as everyone knows are badger and cattle vaccines. Problems: badger vaccine isn't 100% efficient and works best on the inaccessable cubs, cattle vaccines don't work with the current test and under EU law can't be administered. As Sophmay said above, why can't we research more rigorous testing and monitioring. Testing is done annually on clear herds and 2 monthly on infected herds and premovements are required, how can that get more rigorous without costing millions to kill more cows.

Badgers will not be exterminated, not even the farmers want that, but they do need to be controled. If the pilots fail, then people know for furture, but no TB eradication has been managed without some sort of wildlife control.

Reply 45

TheRandomer

Original post by 3 Phase Duck

Was this petition created by Dr Brian May as in Dr Brian May guitarist from queen?

Also I signed. :smile:

Thank you

Yep, Brian May from Queen - he is co founder of 'Save Me', an animal rights group which is largely concerned with stopping the badger cull at the moment.
Please spread the word about the petition to your friends and family, too!

Reply 46

deFossard

Will not sign this, because the badger population is wildly out of control. It is the highest it's every been, and they do not have any natural predators; thus it is up to humans to control their population. They should not be a protected species by any reasoning whatsoever, considering their currently vast population.

A vaccine is the most desirable option for stemming Bovine TB, but one hasn't even been developed yet. Culling is an immediate option and must be undertaken on a large scale quickly to stop this problem.

Tell me, what on earth is wrong with appeasing farmers? Are farmers an evil pressure group all of a sudden? They are exceptionally poor, have a tough life in a country which generally doesn't care in the slightest about agricultural life - despite sentimentalising it so much - and they put food in your bloody stomach. You should show their demands some respect.

Culling needs to be undertaken whilst a vaccine is developed. Worked for New Zealand.

Reply 47

TheRandomer

Original post by deFossard

There is a vaccine available, actually. It needs work but there is something that can be given at the moment even if its not perfect. See what they're doing in Wales.
Concerning the farmers, new statistics suggest that there aren't enough restrictions in place with the movement of cattle etc and some that were declared 'TB free' actually weren't. There are in fact plenty of farmers who have signed this very petition so it's not all complete nonsense if even they agree with it, is it? A paper published by DEFRA themselves also showed (though they did not explicitly compare the numbers themselves - they are biased) that cattle death by TB is actually fairly low compared to other causes including mastitis.
If you don't want to sign that's fine, but please read some of the research and try to see where we're coming from with this. Many very intelligent, high profile figures are involved with this campaign - Sir David Attenborough, Dr Brian May and Bill Oddie included - so you can't say it's just a load of animal rights tree huggers :wink:

Oh lastly - if they don't have natural predators then why did badgers not 'take over the world' before we were interfering with them? Their natural predators are things like wolves but we went and killed all of those off didn't we? If you remove so many badgers all you're left with is a population explosion of rabbits, foxes etc. Think about it!

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 48

TheRandomer

People keep mentioning 'oh we'll just give the cull trials and go and see what happens'. If you know anything of the situation then you will understand that we have plenty of previous experience - the krebs trial being the most prominent example

Reply 49

Naivasha

Original post by TheRandomer

Krebs showed that there was an decrease incidence in the cull area, but an increase outside the area. When Tb was nearly eradicated in 1980s badger population was at its lowest, badger becomes protected and numbers increase fast, TB incidence increase, its now at a very high level and badger population in the south west is the highest of anywhere in Europe. They do need thinning, but not eradicating.

This trial uses natural boundaries to prevent the spread of badgers to outside areas and with vaccination around the area should help stop that increase without having to kill additional badgers in the surrounding areas.

Reply 50

FrogInABog

Original post by TheRandomer

Vaccination is a perfectly viable option, and is likely the only real solution. We need to vaccinate both cows AND badgers, protect our beautiful wildlife and take some meaningful action on this. Not just let the government go ahead with a POINTLESS cull, just to appease the farmers.

Just to pick up on this point, EU law prevents cattle from being vaccinated against TB because tests can't tell the difference between a vaccinated animal and an infected one.

Personally, I think we need to explore all possibilities in tackling TB, including culls and vaccinations. It is important that we come up with an effective, good value way of dealing with it, because it can be absolutely devastating when it hits a herd. From what I've seen, culls have been shown to be somewhat effective, so I would probably advocate a mixture of different measures, including limited culls, improving the separation of herds and wildlife (although this is quite difficult if they spend much time outside), and research into new vaccines. There obviously isn't a single quick-fix solution, so a dynamic approach would be essential.

Reply 51

TheRandomer

Original post by FrogInABog

I think this is a misunderstanding, there is a lot of red tape involved but we are actually permitted by the EU to do it. There would purely be restrictions in places for exporting things to the EU, I believe. The anti-cull groups visited Brussels back in October / November to discuss this situation. DEFRA are trying make people believe it isn't possible, that's all.

Reply 52

Naivasha

Original post by TheRandomer

We are not permitted. EU Directive 78/52 EEC, 1977 Article 13. It quite clearly states cattle vaccination is not allowed in an eraditcation plan of TB let allow try sell milk or meat of vaccinated cattle. There are plans to try change this, however this will take several years to pass and then to impliment and see the results, by which time hundreds of thousands of cows will be slaughtered affecting peoples liveilihoods, and seeing first hand the impact of TB on farms and the farmers (including one suicide) we can't wait till then.

Reply 53

TheRandomer

Original post by Naivasha

From the meetings they said 3 months, not years. They said it could definitely be done, but like I said, red tape! I'll try and find the article for you if you're interested. What DEFRA are telling people is just pure propaganda.

Reply 54

Naivasha

Original post by TheRandomer

Thank you, I would like to see the article as I have an academic not just personal interest in the badger culling. They have already been trying to change for as long as the debate has been going on, even if it takes 3 months the actual TB cattle test still needs further work as the current one won't work with a vaccine. At the end of the day it will take a combined effort of wildlife control and vaccination, no other country has managed TB eradication without wildlife control measures.

Reply 55

TheRandomer

Original post by Naivasha

It isn't a scientific paper but an article which details what happened with regards to the EU visit. http://www.brianmay.com/brian/brianssb/brianssboct12c.html
It is the post from Oct 21st that is of interest.
If you truly feel that it will require at least SOME vaccination to eradicate bTB, and agree that a cull alone will have little effect, can I also urge you to write to the government expressing this view, as no one is seriously considering vaccination at all at this point.
Nevertheless we can certainly vaccinate badgers if not cattle right now, and why this is being overlooked is beyond me.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 56

Rgman27

Original post by Studentus-anonymous

I could read a million 'scientific papers' all carried out and interpreted by biased sources one way or the other, but I'm pretty confident that the badger as a species is secure, so that line of argument is dead on arrival.

Lesson of the day:

Don't talk about subjects that you have no clue about.

Reply 57

Naivasha

They are considering it. I live just outside the cull area, and DEFRA have been trialing vaccination around my area for over a year and will continue for another 5years to work out the logistics of it all and how effective it will be, but again the time issue comes into play, however if it works, it will be used alongside culls to prevent the migration of badgers spreading tb and in buffer zones where TB is not prevalent.

Reply 58

Rgman27

Original post by Naivasha

Thanks for the information. It is an interesting read.

Reply 59

TheRandomer

Original post by Rgman27

Thanks for the information. It is an interesting read.

No problem :smile:

there's a lot of interesting posts on his 'soapbox', and it's a good place to get news if something new happens. The BBC don't seem to be reporting on it at all anymore..