The Student Room Group

You want to abolish the Welfare State?

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Reply 20
Original post by Kibalchich
What is the % of welfare budget lost to fraud in the last year? Anyone like to have a guess?


I bet it's nothing compared to tax evasion by wealthy people and corporations.
Original post by Kibalchich
What is the % of welfare budget lost to fraud in the last year? Anyone like to have a guess?


I've heard it's fairly low, possibly even <1%
Touch benefits and London will end up on fire again


Doesn't that illustrate how dependent people are?

Hardly an advert for keeping them.
Touch benefits and London will end on fire again
Reply 24
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
I would suggest they rely upon private charity.


So in times such as these where people have less to give to charity and the charities can't afford to support these people you're fine with them starving?
Original post by PythianLegume
I've heard it's fairly low, possibly even <1%


Yeah. It's around 0.8%. You're more likely to be under / overpaid your benefits.
Reply 26
Original post by PythianLegume
I've heard it's fairly low, possibly even <1%


0.7% according to the DWPs own figures, that's down 0.1% on the year before.

http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/nsfr-final-291112.pdf
Original post by amholcroft
I bet it's nothing compared to tax evasion by wealthy people and corporations.


You can't use that logic around here... the rich kids won't stand for it.
Reply 28
Anyone want to have a go at what % of benefits go unclaimed?
Reply 29
Original post by Izzyeviel
You can't use that logic around here... the rich kids won't stand for it.


TSR certainly leans to the right... I thought students were usually left wing or was that left behind when they stopped giving grants to working class?
Original post by Martyn*
You want to abolish the welfare state? You want to reduce it? Than what system are you going to put in its place? What measures are you going to take to ensure that everyone gets a job? How will you ensure that workers get a pay packet that they can live on without help from the tax payer?


I think the best thing you could say about the welfare state is that it's treating the symptom, rather than the problem - which is state-capitalism. If you got rid of the economic privileges which create large concentrations of wealth then the poor wouldn't need hand outs to survive and the few who would would be able to get them from their friends and family, mutual aid organisations and charities.
Reply 31
Original post by PicardianSocialist
I think the best thing you could say about the welfare state is that it's treating the symptom, rather than the problem - which is state-capitalism. If you got rid of the economic privileges which create large concentrations of wealth then the poor wouldn't need hand outs to survive and the few who would would be able to get them from their friends and family, mutual aid organisations and charities.


Are we living in the USSR?
Original post by Kibalchich
Anyone want to have a go at what % of benefits go unclaimed?


I believe it's billions. And it's more than what's lost in fraud and error.
Reply 33
Original post by OU Student
I believe it's billions. And it's more than what's lost in fraud and error.


Yep.

Taking all six income-related benefits together, there was between £7.52 billion and £12.31 billion left unclaimed in 2009-10; this compared to £40.56 billion that was claimed and represents take-up by expenditure of between about 77 per cent and 84 per cent.

http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/income_analysis/feb2012/tkup_full_report_0910.pdf
Original post by Kibalchich
Are we living in the USSR?


Conflicting definitions. From the Wikipedia page for state capitalism:

Wikipedia page for state capitalism


State capitalism is usually described as an economic system in which commercial (i.e: for-profit) economic activity is undertaken by the state, with management and organization of the means of production in a capitalist manner - maintaining the conditions of wage labor arising from centralized ownership, even if the state is nominally socialist.

Alternatively, state capitalism may be used (sometimes interchangeably with state monopoly capitalism) to describe a system where the state intervenes in the economy to protect and advance the interests of large-scale businesses.


I'm using the second definition. Sorry for the confusion.
Reply 35
and for a bonus point, what is the national ratio of jobseekers to job vacancies?
Reply 36
Original post by PicardianSocialist
Conflicting definitions. From the Wikipedia page for state capitalism:



I'm using the second definition. Sorry for the confusion.


The second defintion is more properly called "capitalism".
Original post by Kibalchich
and for a bonus point, what is the national ratio of jobseekers to job vacancies?


I know on the Reed website it tells you how many people have already applied, in London it's common for every job to be 100+
Reply 38
Original post by Izzyeviel
I know on the Reed website it tells you how many people have already applied, in London it's common for every job to be 100+


Yep. Nationally its 5 jobseekers for every vacancy.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/labour-market-statistics/january-2013/table-a01.zip
Original post by amholcroft
So in times such as these where people have less to give to charity and the charities can't afford to support these people you're fine with them starving?


The outcome is not relevant to me.

I don't think you can justify what I view to be an immoral means, regardless of the ends.

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