University of Nottingham

Nottingham

Nottingham lying about rankings?

The university website claims that Nottingham is a UK top 10 and world top 75 university but I can't find any rankings that put Nottingham this high.

Are they lying?

Source:

Official Website:
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/about/facts/factsandfigures.aspx
(check the title on the homepage for the world rankings claim)

Times HE World Rankings:
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-12/world-ranking

Compilation of UK ranking sources:
http://www.topuniversityleaguetables.co.uk/uk-university-ranking/

Reply 1

Genocidal

They might have been at some point and just didn't bother to change it?

University of Nottingham

Nottingham

Visit website

Reply 2

nulli tertius

Original post by Vadsi

Google is your friend

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/about/facts/internationalleaguetables.aspx

Reply 3

Vadsi

Oh man they are using rankings from 2010 where only the Sunday Times put them in the top 10 and this was for a subject ranking (I don't know which one but it doesn't matter) and not overall. The Sunday Times currently ranks Nottingham at 21.

Conveniently not updating the website to show more favourable results from two years ago (2011 or 2010) is a joke! Not to mention using one favourable, yet outdated, subject specific result as if it is an overall ranking.

On http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/about/facts/internationalleaguetables.aspx they admit that they are actually ranked 15 overall in 2012 but further research shows that this is nonesense as if you look at the average from the UK rankings you will see that The complete University Guide puts them at 19, the Guardian at 26, the Times at 20 and the Sunday Times at 21. Those four combined give a mean average of 21.5.

BTW. Google is not my friend. I value my privacy. I use startpage.com which is basically Google through an encrypted proxy.

Reply 4

nulli tertius

Original post by Vadsi

Firstly you have chosen to ignore the reference on that page to the Shanghai ratings which is clearly where they have pulled their quote from.

Secondly, if you are applying now, where do you think they will be in four years time when you graduate. You you really think that their quality as a university rises or falls by a significant amount over a single year. Do you know that the research component of all UK league tables is based on data collected in 2007 and published in 2008.

Reply 5

Historicity

Original post by nulli tertius

Atleast somebody knows what they are talking about.

Reply 6

Vadsi

Original post by nulli tertius

I have provided sources for my data. Where is yours?

Reply 7

nulli tertius

Original post by Vadsi

I have provided sources for my data. Where is yours?

Original post by nulli tertius

Firstly you have chosen to ignore the reference on that page to the Shanghai ratings which is clearly where they have pulled their quote from.

If you look on the webpage to which you and I have both linked it says this

ranked 9th in the UK by the established world rankings index published by Shanghai Jiao Tong University in 2012

n the Top 1 per cent of all universities worldwide in the QS World University Rankings, with a ranking of 74th in the world ─ an 17-place rise from two years before on the Times Higher-QS Rankings

Secondly, if you are applying now, where do you think they will be in four years time when you graduate. You you really think that their quality as a university rises or falls by a significant amount over a single year.

That is not data that is my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion. Others may judge whose opinion is more believable.

Do you know that the research component of all UK league tables is based on data collected in 2007 and published in 2008.

I will give the data for one UK ranking table.The others are the same but there is a limit to the effort I will go to to correct ignorance.

This is the link to the data on which the 2013 Complete University Guide is published.

http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/key/

I quote from part of it:

Research Assessment (maximum score 4.00)
What is it?

A measure of the average quality of the research undertaken in the university.
Where does it come from?

The 2008 Research Assessment Exercise undertaken by the funding councils.
How does it work?

Each university department entered in the assessment exercise achieved a quality profile which gave the proportion of research in each of four categories from 4* to 1* (with any remaining activity being unclassified). For the research assessment measure, the categories 4* to 1* were given a numerical value of 4 to 1 which allowed a grade point average to be calculated. An overall average was then calculated weighted according to the number of staff in each department. Then a measure of research intensity (the proportion of staff in the university undertaking the research that contributed to the research quality rating) was calculated. About half of universities agreed to release this information; for the other half it was estimated using a statistical transformation of HESA staff data. The two measures were combined in a ratio of 2:1 with research quality more heavily weighted.
What should you look out for?

Universities could decide who they wanted to return for assessment. In some cases, quite good researchers were omitted as a way of getting the best possible quality profile.

This is the timeline of the 2008 Research Assessment Exercise.

http://www.rae.ac.uk/aboutus/timetab.asp

Note the closing date for submissions was 30 November 2007 and the last date for publications to be included was 31 December 2007.

Reply 8

Vadsi

I see the rankings from http://www.topuniversities.com/node/4274/ranking-details/world-university-rankings/2012 are showing more favourable results for Nottingham. I can't find a direct source for the Shanghai ratings (perhaps you can).

So this is one ranking list which perhaps entitles Nottingham to state themselves as a top 75 internationally (even if the others don't favour them so well) but what about the national rankings? I still cannot find a source which lists them as a top 10 in the UK.

Reply 9

nulli tertius

Original post by Vadsi

http://www.shanghairanking.com/Country2012Main.jsp?param=United%20Kingdom

Sometime ago I prepared a list of the 33 top ten universities for law

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1994014&p=37456205#post37456205

Reply 10

Vadsi

I see about the research assessments but even though the last data was published in 2008 it is still the most current and applies to all current rankings.

I'm much more concerned about where the university is getting it's information to make it a top 10 in the UK for 2012?

Surely when comparing British universities to other British universities the domestic data is more reliable.

Reply 11

Vadsi

So the Chinese list is the only source that puts Nottingham in the top 10 when all the British sources put at 21.5 on average.

Surely British sources are more qualified to assess British universities. It's the lack of transparacy that fails Nottingham above anything else.

Reply 12

Dragonfly07

They probably are one of the top ten in one small aspect that they don't mention. Definitely not overall ranking though.

Reply 13

~Wiggle

Damn! and I even applied there

Reply 14

Vadsi

Original post by ~Wiggle

Damn! and I even applied there

Well, I'm not saying they're a bad university and I don't think the rankings from all sources are damaging but rather how they are only picking rankings which favour them as a top 10 university.

Reply 15

rmhumphries

Original post by Vadsi

Well, I'm not saying they're a bad university and I don't think the rankings from all sources are damaging but rather how they are only picking rankings which favour them as a top 10 university.

Oh no, a university uses statistics selectively to make them look good. The scandal! All universities will do what they can to look good.

Reply 16

nulli tertius

Original post by Vadsi

None of them are transparent. They all use selective data as a marketing tool. That is why the government had made them publish a Key Information Set http://unistats.direct.gov.uk/

That information itself can be misleading (for example most law students don't care about total recruitment but about solicitors' training contracts and pupillages) but even where universities know the information is unrepresentative, they still publish it. They can't help themselves.

One post-1992 university publishes its wonderful stats for legal employment. What it doesn't mention is that it has a very successful line in degrees for mature students. The chances of a 21 year old with a degree from there getting a training contract are slim to nil.

Singling out Nottingham for doing what they all do is unfair.

Reply 17

alexs2602

Original post by Vadsi

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2012 #72

Not to mention rankings are rough at best, often with universties ranked higher or lower than you would expect them to be. Look at Lancaster, Loughborough, Glasgow especially in the complete university guide.