Why the benefits system is unfair

[...] Is it fare that somebody on benefits can take home the same, or more than somebody who's working?

And I'm not claiming higher wages. The same can be done by lowering benefits to below mimium wage.

It is unfair that someone can take more home more in benefits than if they worked. But that rarely ever happens. Of course, it is much easier for you to blame the unemployed than to take into account the high cost of childcare, council tax, transport and utilities, all of which most people have absolutely no control over whatsoever. Not to mention employers who refuse to pay a living wage, which has to be topped up by the state, and whose idea of flexible working is to offer zero-hour contracts.

We spend far, far more on employment benefits than unemployment benefits. (I would love for you to provide an explanation for that). The fact is work does not always pay, especially at the bottom of the job market, and the answer is not to lower unemployment benefits below minimum wage, because what people receive is already below minimum wage anyway. Someone on Jobseeker's Allowance gets either £1.50 or £1.90 per hour depending upon their age (i.e. for a 37 hour week). You need a reality check about what it is actually like claiming benefits and trying to get social housing at the moment.

Reply 81

Tiger Rag

22

Original post by evantej

You need a reality check about what it is actually like claiming benefits and trying to get social housing at the moment.

Agreed. I am in the middle of trying to find somewhere to live. Because I'm under 35, I am expected to share, despite having a disability which makes sharing a house impossible. (I have quite bad sensory issues)

I've been on benefits on and off since leaving uni in June 2010. I hate it. The people who sort out benefits do so illogically. I claim ESA and for the first 13 weeks was meant to be paid £56.25. I was paid £56.25 for 22 weeks (got back pay; but that's not the point) and it took someone 10 days to decide that they were going to send me a form to check whether I can work or not. I sent it off 3 weeks later (we're now on week 5) and the wait was awful.

I don't want to be on benefits. I want to work; but when the people who are meant to be helping back to work accuse my GP and consultants of being liars and telling me to "get over" my sensory and communication problems, I felt as though I had no choice but to go on to ESA.

Reply 82

nohomo

5

Original post by MatureStudent36

Is it fare that somebody on benefits can take home the same, or more than somebody who's working?

.

It depends on the effect of somebody's job - whether their job has a good or a bad effect. I'd rather pay somebody to sit on benefits than to work in an abattoir.

Reply 83

evantej

18

Original post by dragonkeeper999

There is a difference - my parents have actually deserved the money they were given. They worked hard and got a job within a month. The people I am complaining about have not earnt a penny in their lives - they laze around at home watching TV and spending taxpayers money on cigarettes and drugs. I've seen it happen - I haven't had quite the well-off upbringing you seem to think I have had.

Come back to this discussion when you have learned not to generalise and actually paid some income tax and national insurance, okay?

Reply 84

Tiger Rag

22

Original post by dragonkeeper999

However, there is widespread misuse of the benefits system - people lying about not having jobs because they're paid in cash, people having tonnes of kids because the state will support them and buy them a nice house for it, people never working or even trying to work at all in their whole lives!

Your evidence for this is where, please? And no, Daily Mail doesn't count as evidence.

However, then reduce it so that they are starting to struggle. Put the pressure on for them to get a job. After half a year, it's ridiculous that someone has not been able to get a job of some kind, so cut the benefits further. Eventually, they will no longer be able to afford their lifestyle, have to downsize/ move into cheap rented accommodation, have to get a job in order to survive.

Excellent idea. :rolleyes:

There are more people than jobs out there at the moment. Many people can't get jobs because they're too old (these people are in their 50s) or overqualified.

n alternative is to limit what they can spend the money on. Give them shopping vouchers for major supermarkets for their food, gas/ electricity bills, a small amount of actual cash for use as they wish. This would prevent them spending it all on smoking/ drugs/ sky TV/ expensive luxury holidays, and so allow the government more control over how benefits are actually spent.
(However, for those who are unable to work because of disabilities, I would not impose this system - they should still receive a disability allowance/ fixed amount of money.)

Contrary to what the Daily Mail tells you, we don't all spend out money on smoking, drugs, Sky or expensive holidays. Most people on benefits are actually struggling.

Reply 85

MatureStudent36

5

Original post by OU Student

Your evidence for this is where, please? And no, Daily Mail doesn't count as evidence.

Excellent idea. :rolleyes:

There are more people than jobs out there at the moment. Many people can't get jobs because they're too old (these people are in their 50s) or overqualified.

Contrary to what the Daily Mail tells you, we don't all spend out money on smoking, drugs, Sky or expensive holidays. Most people on benefits are actually struggling.

I'd support you in the statement that most people on benefits are struggling. And these will be the ones that will find work and benefits have acted as they are meant to be. A safety net. But yes, there are people that see benefits as a lifestyle. I don't need the Dail Wail to tell me that. I have eyes in my head and can see it

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 86

Tiger Rag

22

Original post by MatureStudent36

I'd support you in the statement that most people on benefits are struggling. And these will be the ones that will find work and benefits have acted as they are meant to be. A safety net. But yes, there are people that see benefits as a lifestyle. I don't need the Dail Wail to tell me that. I have eyes in my head and can see it

Then surely you'd know that these people are the minority?

Reply 87

Fullofsurprises

20

Original post by MatureStudent36

I'd support you in the statement that most people on benefits are struggling. And these will be the ones that will find work and benefits have acted as they are meant to be. A safety net. But yes, there are people that see benefits as a lifestyle. I don't need the Dail Wail to tell me that. I have eyes in my head and can see it

Having checked out the level of benefits, I have no idea how people manage to survive on them for anything longer than weeks. They appear to be set close to destitution level.

Reply 88

Llamageddon

18

There are winners and losers in every scenario. You want something to be fair to all? Then tell me, what do you propose and how would you implement it?

Would the new system be devoid of any perverse consequences?

Reply 89

dragonkeeper999

17

Original post by OU Student

Your evidence for this is where, please? And no, Daily Mail doesn't count as evidence.

Excellent idea. :rolleyes:

There are more people than jobs out there at the moment. Many people can't get jobs because they're too old (these people are in their 50s) or overqualified.

Contrary to what the Daily Mail tells you, we don't all spend out money on smoking, drugs, Sky or expensive holidays. Most people on benefits are actually struggling.

If you actually read my other posts, you will see that I know people just like this. No, no 'official' evidence, but it's common knowledge.
They can get jobs at any age, provided they are in good health. Might not be the dream job, but at least it pays them money. I've already said that those who are disabled or otherwise very ill should not be forced to work.
People who are 'overqualified' is a load of rubbish. They just don't want to take the jobs that are actually available to them.
Some people on benefits, who actually 'deserve' to be on benefits, are perhaps struggling. However, the widespread misuse of the system means that people are claiming benefits they don't qualify for, for example not declaring 'cash jobs' as well as the obvious criminal activities. This is not only common knowledge, but the government is aware of the situation and is supposedly trying to reduce it. It is also reported in the news - not just in the daily mail.

Reply 90

Tiger Rag

22

Original post by dragonkeeper999

People who are 'overqualified' is a load of rubbish. They just don't want to take the jobs that are actually available to them.

Can you tell that to my dad who has been trying for the best part of 2 years to get a new job? Bearing in mind he'll do almost any job he can. (and has done - his current job he got through his father-in-law)

There is such a thing as being overqualified - some employers won't take on people with degrees because they know that as soon as a better job comes along, they'll take it.

Reply 91

Kibalchich

Original post by MatureStudent36

Yet working class wealth has also decreased.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/threatened-isolated-under-siege-the-uks-working-class-today-2302850.html

Well, depends on what you mean by working class. That article has a fairly limited definition.

My point was that there has been a transfer of wealth upwards.

Reply 92

Quady

20

Original post by OU Student

There is such a thing as being overqualified - some employers won't take on people with degrees because they know that as soon as a better job comes along, they'll take it.

(top tip, don't mention the degree then...)

Reply 93

CEKTOP

13

Original post by OU Student

There is such a thing as being overqualified - some employers won't take on people with degrees because they know that as soon as a better job comes along, they'll take it.

Don't put the degree on the CV and tailor it to the job you're hoping to get, include experience you never had, nobody ever bothers to check your references when it comes to a minimum wage job.

Reply 94

Tiger Rag

22

Original post by Quady

(top tip, don't mention the degree then...)

How do you explain what you've been doing for the last 3 years if you didn't work during your degree?

Reply 95

CEKTOP

13

Original post by OU Student

How do you explain what you've been doing for the last 3 years if you didn't work during your degree?

You shovelled **** on a farm in the middle of nowhere for £7 an hour and this equipped you with skills necessary to perform menial jobs and increased your physical stamina. You may even include a reference with a phone number nobody will ever call.

And in the case of your father, I guess he got his degree a long time ago so it's not an issue at all.

If you chicken out you can just say that you were unemployed.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 96

orange9

5

this country has been shockingly badly run in recent years, and the current government has had to try and make the best of a pretty desperate situation, the benefits system is a bit of a mess as with many things labour left :biggrin:

Reply 97

Tiger Rag

22

Original post by CEKTOP

You shovelled **** on a farm in the middle of nowhere for £7 an hour and this equipped you with skills necessary to perform menial jobs and increased your physical stamina. You may even include a reference with a phone number nobody will ever call.

And in the case of your father, I guess he got his degree a long time ago so it's not an issue at all.

If you chicken out you can just say that you were unemployed.

My father doesn't have a degree.

Reply 98

Quady

20

Original post by OU Student

How do you explain what you've been doing for the last 3 years if you didn't work during your degree?

What the guy below you said.

You worked the bars of Australia, were a carer for your dying mum, were trying to make it as a pop star...

And yeah, you were referencing your dad, his degree is in the dim and distant past.

Reply 99

CEKTOP

13

Original post by OU Student

My father doesn't have a degree.

That's even better. He can easily land a job as a picker for a supermarket chain or an amazon job but these are physically demanding and for this reason are often avoided by the native population of the UK.

Why the benefits system is unfair

Quick Reply

Related discussions

Latest

Trending

Trending

Articles for you