The Student Room Group

When Scotland are independent, will effect the universities system?

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Reply 20
Original post by Sir Fox
"Scottish public spending totalled £63.8 billion last while tax revenue was only £53.1 billion even when a geographic share of North Sea oil is included."


These "facts" (False statements) are %110 incorrect! Sadly, when the Sottish people are fed a diet of propaganda by the BBC, Daily Mail, Sun and Daily Record they vote according to the wishes of their newspaper owners they buy into all of this rubbish.

Lets not forget that 16 & 17 year olds WILL be given the ability to vote, despite all of Cameron's wishes and why not? They can learn to drive, get married and start a family? Why are they not able to vote for goodness sake?!
Reply 21
Original post by The Jacobite
These "facts" (False statements) are %110 incorrect! Sadly, when the Sottish people are fed a diet of propaganda by the BBC, Daily Mail, Sun and Daily Record they vote according to the wishes of their newspaper owners they buy into all of this rubbish.

Lets not forget that 16 & 17 year olds WILL be given the ability to vote, despite all of Cameron's wishes and why not? They can learn to drive, get married and start a family? Why are they not able to vote for goodness sake?!


Ah, a fine rebuttal, with many well sourced facts of your own.
Original post by Sir Fox
"Scottish public spending totalled £63.8 billion last while tax revenue was only £53.1 billion even when a geographic share of North Sea oil is included."

You mean the 10 billions Scotland gets more from London than it pays in taxes?

You mean the billions it gets from the banks? Scotland runs at a deficit, yes, but so do Wales, Northern Ireland and England. It is disingenuous to portray the monetary relationship between Scotland and the UK as a simple story of money heading North when the proportion of UK taxes raised in Scotland is greater than the proportion of UK expenditure spent on Scotland. While there is a certain amount of redistribution through the tax system (from London and the SE to everywhere else rather than England to Scotland), the deficit is ultimately plugged by borrowing, so it's not really a case of raiding the treasury to make up the difference.

It's equally disingenuous to talk about the "millions upon millions" that Scots are allegedly pumping into London, mind you.
Reply 23
Original post by Kaiser MacCleg
It's equally disingenuous to talk about the "millions upon millions" that Scots are allegedly pumping into London, mind you.


You are exactly right. More like edging on BILLIONS!
Original post by Slumpy



London subsidises the whole of the UK, not the other way around.


Bear in mind that those statistics conveniently don't include revenues from North Sea oil/gas.
Original post by The Jacobite


Lets not forget that 16 & 17 year olds WILL be given the ability to vote, despite all of Cameron's wishes and why not? They can learn to drive, get married and start a family? Why are they not able to vote for goodness sake?!


Because they are stupid.

IMO, the voting age should go back up to 21.
Nationally scotland WILL have to reapply for all memberships of any groups of countries (possibly not the common wealth) which it was previously part of under Great Britain. NATO, UN, WTO, EU ect...

Technically Scotish universities can set any price they want for foreign students regardless of nationality as they wont come under EU regulation. Then again this is going to screw over scotland meaning it would be possible for all other EU members to deport any Scottish students who don't have visas. This includes Britain and also could extend to any other Scottish nationals in the EU. Many of these people are OAPs and retired in southern countries who put extreme burdens on foreign health systems and create no benefit to their economy. This is just one of the many implications of a Scotland who isn't part of the EU
Reply 27
Original post by The Jacobite
When Scotland are independent, how do you think this will effect the universities system? As it stands, obviously Scotland is widely regarded as the better education provider in general and this is why English students are more likely to enroll at our Unis rather than their own.

Will the English have to pay even more when studying at our Unis or will the fees stay the same?


English (and other British) fees would go down to zero to be in line with the other EU countries (assuming Scotland get into the EU), which is in line with Scottish fees. It's only a loophole that allows Scottish universities to charge more to other Brits than from France, Germany etc.
Original post by Hopple
English (and other British) fees would go down to zero to be in line with the other EU countries (assuming Scotland get into the EU), which is in line with Scottish fees. It's only a loophole that allows Scottish universities to charge more to other Brits than from France, Germany etc.


On average it takes 6 years for a country to gainful entrance to the EU through the application process. This excludes the time before they actually use to prepare their application.
Reply 29
Original post by The Jacobite
Not necessarily. You're forgetting that the reason our education system is better accross the board is because we choose to invest in it, similarly to both Wales and Ireland. Something that England hasn't and never intends to to do.


Are you just trolling or are you utterly deluded? The only other country in the world that can compete with England's universities is the United States.

One word: Oxbridge.

And if you want to say that your education system is better across the board you'll need to provide citations to prove it.
Reply 30
Original post by Barden
Bear in mind that those statistics conveniently don't include revenues from North Sea oil/gas.


You can take into account practically anything and still discover London subsidises everywhere. Obviously this is no more a slight on Scotland than it is on the North of England, Wales, the SW of England, etc.
Reply 31
Original post by Octohedral
Do you really believe that independence wouldn't be disastrous for both countries?

What would either of us really gain from it? We would have to share armed forces (or else I'm afraid neither of us will be any sort of global power any more) - we need the deep harbours in Scotland for submarine bases and you need our submarines, as a basic example. The navy is already critically low on ships. Implementing any change would be magnified threefold in cost due to bureacracy. The entire idea is based on an anger passed down through so many generations that it has become meaningless, and a slightly dubious belief that you can survive indefinitely on north sea oil and gas.

Also, it might interest you that a 'friend' of mine is influential in the 'yes' campaign, and their method is to target small groups and appeal to their sense of patriotism, or their selfishness by promising things specific to their needs. It isn't based on a genuine argument. This person admits himself that he has a new power-structure envisaged for Scotland. If you vote yes you will not be helping anyone in the UK who isn't close to Alex Salmond.

/rant (sorry, nothing personal!)


Britain already has hardly any global power anymore and its time to start realising that. You need our deep harbours but we don't want the nukes. Scotland will not need a large army as we won't be fighting in pointless illegal wars.

Scotland doesn't need the oil to survive but the trillion dollars left of it will certainly help us out. Ahh I have a friend who does this and that arguement.. lol. Don't talk about dirty tactics because the unionists and the bbc are worse.

From what I can see independence will be disastrous for the UK and prosperous for Scotland.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 32
Original post by hendycfc

From what I can see independence will be disastrous for the UK and prosperous for Scotland.


I think you're overestimating the importance of Scotland in the grand scheme of things if you'll claim that it's disastrous for the UK. Independence would probably be bad for the UK, but worse for Scotland.
Original post by hendycfc
Britain already has hardly any global power anymore and its time to start realising that. You need our deep harbours but we don't want the nukes. Scotland will not need a large army as we won't be fighting in pointless illegal wars.

Scotland doesn't need the oil to survive but the trillion dollars left of it will certainly help us out. Ahh I have a friend who does this and that arguement.. lol. Don't talk about dirty tactics because the unionists and the bbc are worse.

From what I can see independence will be disastrous for the UK and prosperous for Scotland.


Even if that is true, why would it make you happy that the country next to you comes out badly? Do you not see the implications? We share a tiny island - we are not your enemies. You have no reason to hate the English.

And how can you not see how short sighted it is to willingly give up being a nuclear power? The western world looks stable now, but it's balanced on a knife edge.

Britain is still a global power because we are one of very few countries with a blue-water navy, we speak the same language as two major continents, we are a very developed nation, and we have advanced nuclear weapons. Scotland breaking away to become a utopic hippy nation that wants nothing to do with its only neighbour is, quite frankly, insane and very random.
Reply 34
Original post by Octohedral
Even if that is true, why would it make you happy that the country next to you comes out badly? Do you not see the implications? We share a tiny island - we are not your enemies. You have no reason to hate the English.

And how can you not see how short sighted it is to willingly give up being a nuclear power? The western world looks stable now, but it's balanced on a knife edge.

Britain is still a global power because we are one of very few countries with a blue-water navy, we speak the same language as two major continents, we are a very developed nation, and we have advanced nuclear weapons. Scotland breaking away to become a utopic hippy nation that wants nothing to do with its only neighbour is, quite frankly, insane and very random.


Why am I being accused of being anti-english? I am anti-westminister not anti-english.

Maybe disasterious was an over-statement but the rest of the UK is going to need to change rapidly when it stops being subsidised by Scotland.
Original post by Slumpy
You can take into account practically anything and still discover London subsidises everywhere. Obviously this is no more a slight on Scotland than it is on the North of England, Wales, the SW of England, etc.



True, but the whole concept of one area 'subsidising' another has been debunked in the past. Something along the lines of if you're gonna say that London subsidises the rest of the UK, you might as well say that my parents house subsidises the house next door because my parents earn slightly more.

Or look at it another way: London just happens to be where the big business is at. This is not the fault of the rest of the UK.

Or another way: maybe London subsidises Wales, the SE subsidises N.I., and Scotland subsidises the North of England...
Reply 36
Original post by Barden
True, but the whole concept of one area 'subsidising' another has been debunked in the past. Something along the lines of if you're gonna say that London subsidises the rest of the UK, you might as well say that my parents house subsidises the house next door because my parents earn slightly more.

Or look at it another way: London just happens to be where the big business is at. This is not the fault of the rest of the UK.

Or another way: maybe London subsidises Wales, the SE subsidises N.I., and Scotland subsidises the North of England...


To some extent, I'd agree with that.

And I'm not saying the rest of the UK is at fault, just that if we're gonna be silly like that, we should at least look at where an astonishing amount of the country's wealth is generated.
Reply 37
Original post by Slumpy
To some extent, I'd agree with that.

And I'm not saying the rest of the UK is at fault, just that if we're gonna be silly like that, we should at least look at where an astonishing amount of the country's wealth is generated.


That is expected though considering all of the money is being pumped into London and the South East while the rest of the UK is starved.

Even with this happening Scotland has managed to have a faster growth than the rest of the UK.
Reply 38
My opinion, which I am entitled to btw, is that when Scotland go independent we will prosper and the rest of the UK will suffer.

I only ask all of you one question.. If Scotland sponges off and is subsidized by the rest of the UK (I.E "London"), why are you all so keen to keep us?
Reply 39
Original post by The Jacobite
My opinion, which I am entitled to btw, is that when Scotland go independent we will prosper and the rest of the UK will suffer.

I only ask all of you one question.. If Scotland sponges off and is subsidized by the rest of the UK (I.E "London"), why are you all so keen to keep us?


Exactly.

And they can't state the usual "we're stronger together" especially after them all wrongly stating that Scotland are subsidised by the UK.

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