Fluency, or lack of it.

Well, I suppose you probably won't be as fluent as you would be if you were doing a language not ab initio, but it's worth pointing out that the year abroad will probably build your fluency significantly.

how am i going to get to A2 german in one year? it took me 5 years with spanish lol. though i do suppose ill have a lot more german lesson time than i ever did over those 5 years spanish which was maybe an hour a week.

Hi.

I was just wondering if it was considered very abnormal to not be fluent like a native in a language after doing a degree in it. I started a Japanese degree, ab initio in the language with the idea I would obviously be fluent in it at the end. Now I'm going into second year but I just don't see how it is possible to cram all the needed vocabulary in my head in 3 years. Especially with all the other history and literature units, dissertation ect you do at the same time.

Maybe I am just not good linguist

Jaded

Also, when universities say you should be fluent by the end of the degree, they're usually referring to the common European languages such as French, Spanish, Italian and German. I'd imagine Japanese is much more difficult.

That's not really true. I'm studying Japanese as well and I've met all the fourth years here and they are pretty much fluent in Japanese and can speak with all japanese people just fine. Sure japanese is harder (I'm doing Japanese with Spanish) but doesnt mean you wont be any less fluent! I guess it depends on how much work you put into it and what university you go to and how their course is set out!

Also, i guess it depends what you're definition of "fluent" is too. Like for example I'm (hopefully ) going to study French and Russian (ab initio) at uni in Autumn '07 and I totally expect myself to be MUCH more fluent in French than in Russian by the end of it. Although in the prospectus they claim that both subjects end up with the same worth at the end of the degree (I guess it's because you do roughly double the course units in the ab initio subject)

Yeah, I see what you're saying. But Italian is generally considered to be a much easier language than Russian is - especially as you have background knowledge in another romance language (French). With Russian you have to learn a completely different alphabet and a grammar which is very intricate, complex and which has six cases, so a lot of time initially is spent learning these basics. I'm not saying that Italian ab initio at uni is easy - far from it, I imagine it's very difficult - but I think there are few who would argue that picking up Italian from scratch is more difficult than picking up Russian from scratch simply because of the differences between the two languages - they're just totally different.

Also, i guess it depends what you're definition of "fluent" is too.

I'm doing French and Spanish, I'm end the end of 3rd year and most people on my course are nowhere near fluent. I suppose it doesn't help that all the classes are in English and they discourage Erasmus but most people would struggle to hold a basic conversation. It all depends what you personally put into it, if you do the bare minimum of work and just go to lectures you won't become fluent. I'm sick and tired of people telling me how 'lucky' I am they I speak both languages reasonably well, it's because I put in 10 times more effort than anyone else. I meet up with native speakers once a week to practise, I go to conversation groups, watch foreign TV while they're watching Eastenders or at the pub. When I suggest finding an exchange partner they look at me like I'm crazy, oh no, we don't want to actually SPEAK this language we're learning! I was one of the only ones to go on Erasmus.

It's a bit pathetic really, they're just fooling themselves into thinking they will be able to speak the language when they graduate when in reality their level is really basic. I've been in Spain for the year and I still don't consider myself truly fluent, I can't even imagine if I'd stayed there for the whole degree.

Think of the degree as a guide to follow, do all the work, all your reading but most of the language work will be done on your own, especially with a language like Japanese. You have to be really dedicated and do some listening and reading work every day.