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Who do you respect more, a bin man or a maths professor?

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Original post by The Nerd King
x


ahh caught out by a troll - well wont again

Original post by MJK91
Bah humbug, anyone can learn to take an engine apart and put it together again with enough effort. It's a bigger, more complex version of putting blocks together as a child.

How many people could design an engine with enough effort without intelligence? Not many.


by that same argument i can put a nuclear generator together, just pass me an instruction manual and give me the parts.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by silverbolt
by that same argument i can put a nuclear generator together, just pass me an instruction manual and give me the parts.


I think a little common sense goes a long way. A car engine is infinitely more simple (and smaller!) than a nuclear reactor.

EDIT: To clarify, not one single person can put a nuclear generator together. It requires a team of very well educated people. The same cannot be said for a motor engine.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by MENDACIUM
While i agree that society has jobs and roles, and we must have humility to respect everyone, as we are all dependent on one another, i am not so liberal as to say that i respect those who work at strip clubs.

Women who do that devalue themselves, sell themselves, build up the idea that women are sex objects and so on. Not to mention the men that cheat and go to such clubs.

I won't abuse anyone who does, but respect is something earned.


People who don't have advanced skills just do those menial jobs. Women's jobs rely on their appeal to men because that's where their strengths lie on the most basic level, just as men's most basic strengths lie in doing jobs like being bin men.

Women are as much sex objects to men as men are garbage clearing machines to women.
Reply 83
Original post by Dragonfly07
People who don't have advanced skills just do those menial jobs. Women's jobs rely on their appeal to men because that's where their strengths lie on the most basic level, just as men's most basic strengths lie in doing jobs like being bin men.

Women are as much sex objects to men as men are garbage clearing machines to women.


I believe neither men or women should be exploited for their body and objectified as sex objects. Woman are objectified far more. I do not like strip clubs, or women exploiting themselves for money.

We usually talk about freedom and choice, but women who often go into prostitution and dubious activities like stripping often do it because they have no other choice. I do not feel women should feel like they have to go down this route.

Women should be integrated into the real world, doing real jobs, and sought after for their minds.

Men are indeed strong, but they are not exploited for their strength but the job they do. Women are exploited solely to objectify themselves in these strip clubs -that's their job. So the analogy is not quite parallel.
Original post by MJK91
And yet his profession implies he is not ambitious.


His profession could imply that either he is not ambitious, or that he's doing the job because he hasn't found another yet/is waiting for the right opportunity/whatever. It's not exactly easy to walk straight into your dream job, as I hope you're aware.

Hell, I'm going to spend this summer cleaning toilets. Does that mean I'm not ambitious? I'm not even sure there's a correlation there, let alone a strong one.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Rascacielos
His profession could imply that either he is not ambitious, or that he's doing the job because he hasn't found another yet/is waiting for the right opportunity/whatever. It's not exactly easy to walk straight into your dream job, as I hope you're aware.

Hell, I'm going to spend this summer cleaning toilets. Does that mean I'm not ambitious? I'm not even sure there's a correlation there, let alone a strong one.


I suppose if you could back it up with statistics showing that a large proportion of binmen are trained in other professions but can't find jobs, then that'd be a great argument.

As it stands, I find it unlikely. Happy to be proven wrong, though.
I don't care who the person is. I still respect people of all occupations by default - unless they're *******s by personality.
Original post by MENDACIUM
I believe neither men or women should be exploited for their body and objectified as sex objects. Woman are objectified far more. I do not like strip clubs, or women exploiting themselves for money.

We usually talk about freedom and choice, but women who often go into prostitution and dubious activities like stripping often do it because they have no other choice. I do not feel women should feel like they have to go down this route.

Women should be integrated into the real world, doing real jobs, and sought after for their minds.

Men are indeed strong, but they are not exploited for their strength but the job they do. Women are exploited solely to objectify themselves in these strip clubs -that's their job. So the analogy is not quite parallel.


We both know that everyone who does menial jobs does it because they have "no other choice". I mean who wants to be a bin man?

And no, men are probably more exploited for their strength than women are exploited for their appearances.

I can only list a few professions where women can legally work as what you'd describe as "sex objects" (including stripping and porn), but the number of professions where men are exploited for their strength for minimum wage jobs is ridiculous.
Reply 88
Original post by MJK91
I think a little common sense goes a long way. A car engine is infinitely more simple (and smaller!) than a nuclear reactor.

EDIT: To clarify, not one single person can put a nuclear generator together. It requires a team of very well educated people. The same cannot be said for a motor engine.

And indeed it takes teams of engineers to build a motor engine.
Reply 89
Original post by Dragonfly07
We both know that everyone who does menial jobs does it because they have "no other choice". I mean who wants to be a bin man?

And no, men are probably more exploited for their strength than women are exploited for their appearances.

I can only list a few professions where women can legally work as what you'd describe as "sex objects" (including stripping and porn), but the number of professions where men are exploited for their strength for minimum wage jobs is ridiculous.


I would rather someone being exploited for doing hard labour, i.e strenuous activities as you mention, then being gawped at for removing their clothes and being objectified. Even if a man is exploited for his strength to do tiring cheap labour, it is different for a woman to turn herself into a real-life sex toy. A woman is more than that. I just don't see women like that, and i truly do not want to.

A bin man has an important job in society, and they aren't exploited or objectified for what they are i.e a man or a woman sexually.

A stripper on the other hand, clearly knows their role is to be a sex object, to be objectified, and so on and so forth.

I jut do not have a favorable opinion or view of people who undertake such jobs. My respect for a woman who emptied bins would be sky-high (depending on the kind of person they were) whereas my respect for a woman who stripped and sold her body would not be so high.

We are sentient human beings at the end of the day, and i won't abuse anyone for what they do, but if asked on my view with regards to a certain job, i have to be honest and give it. If someone stops being a stripper and reforms, then i have every right to judge them on what kind of person they now wish to become, rather than their past. But as long as they are still indulging in such practices, i simply can not accept it.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by und
And indeed it takes teams of engineers to build a motor engine.


To design, yes. Many people can put together a motorcycle engine, for example, by themselves. My Dad learnt to do it with his bike with just a couple of books, and he's not educated in anything mechanical (and indeed did not get his O-levels)

Someone made the point that a bin man may be able to do it, and I'm saying that doesn't necessarily confer intelligence.
Original post by MJK91
I suppose if you could back it up with statistics showing that a large proportion of binmen are trained in other professions but can't find jobs, then that'd be a great argument.

As it stands, I find it unlikely. Happy to be proven wrong, though.


I'd respect you more if you attempted to prove yourself right. :wink:

In any case, you might well be correct, but respect isn't based on statistics and if the OP had said a 'lazy binman' then I'd be inclined to agree with you. But that was not my interpretation of this thread - and to be frank, the aspirations of the binman didn't even cross my mind as an element of respect when I initially posted. So, to me at least, how much ambition someone has clearly doesn't have a huge role in how much I respect them. A person can be unambitious and have many other respectful qualities. Take my Dad for example - he is happy in his present job and doesn't aspire to qualify any further or go into management of the company, even though both options have been offered to him. I suppose that would mean he is unambitious. Yet he has pulled someone out of a burning house, which I think deserves respect - although of course I'm biased.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Rascacielos
I'd respect you more if you attempted to prove yourself right. :wink:

In any case, you might well be correct, but respect isn't based on statistics and if the OP had said a 'lazy binman' then I'd be inclined to agree with you. But that was not my interpretation of this thread - and to be frank, the aspirations of the binman didn't even cross my mind as an element of respect. So, to me at least, how much ambition someone has clearly doesn't have a huge role in how much I respect them.


I think we both know I am correct purely from observations, but of course that isn't hugely scientific :wink:

I've already said that I don't equate professional respect with that of personal respect. Lots of my friends are manual workers but I still hold them in high esteem. I just think there are more reputable professions, but everyone's entitled to their choice.
I respect the bin man more, he cleans up my crap and takes abuse from people looking down on them.
The maths professor just answers equations all day, contribution to society = nil.
Original post by Blueray2
The maths professor just answers equations all day, contribution to society = nil.


I really hope that's a joke.
I voted Maths professor, for the following reason:

A bin man is certainly useful within society and a necessity, but they do not advance society. If everyone only performed the tasks necessary to run society and not advance it, then we'd still be the same society we were hundreds of years ago. Maths however progresses society, it allows us to move from one stage to some more advance stage which is incredibly beneficial. Think of the things we have to help us now compared to hundred years ago. Computers, mobiles, the internet, medicine etc etc. A lot of major technological advances stem from mathematical theorems developed by theorists which while at the time seemed irrelevant, but become incredibly useful when someone figures out how they can apply to them create some new technology.

Some examples: Non-Euclidean geometry: Developed in the 19th century. Seemingly completely useless to the real world. Developed and incorportated by Einstein into the theory of General Relativity. Now essential to GPS, a system used in many, many technological devices. Also essential to calculating space flight trajectories.

Fourier Transform: Developed in the 1700s. Allows for a mapping of some variable function into a new domain, along with the representation of any function with an infinite series of sins and cosine functions. Now used in practically every area of communication to condense information into a sendable form.
List of applications: Fourier analysis has many scientific applications in physics, partial differential equations, number theory, combinatorics, signal processing, imaging, probability theory, statistics, option pricing, cryptography, numerical analysis, acoustics, oceanography, sonar, optics, diffraction, geometry, protein structure analysis and other areas.

So yeah, without the mathematicians, the world would be a lot less advanced than it is now.
Original post by Blueray2
I respect the bin man more, he cleans up my crap and takes abuse from people looking down on them.
The maths professor just answers equations all day, contribution to society = nil.


Little kid, you have no clue man.
Reply 97
Original post by Blueray2
I respect the bin man more, he cleans up my crap and takes abuse from people looking down on them.
The maths professor just answers equations all day, contribution to society = nil.


Interesting. If you're serious, that's the kind of opinion I intended this thread for, so thank you for your reply.

I don't agree that mathematicians don't contribute (for example, you wouldn't have this computer without Alan Turing), but it's certainly not as direct, and it's a much nicer job, so I can see your point. I'm interested in how many people share it. :smile:


Original post by You Failed
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Really good reply, thanks :smile:
Original post by MJK91
I really hope that's a joke.



Original post by James A
Little kid, you have no clue man.


Sarcasm fail, but read my bellow reply to see what I mean.
Original post by Octohedral
Interesting. If you're serious, that's the kind of opinion I intended this thread for, so thank you for your reply.

I don't agree that mathematicians don't contribute (for example, you wouldn't have this computer without Alan Turing), but it's certainly not as direct, and it's a much nicer job, so I can see your point. I'm interested in how many people share it. :smile:

Really good reply, thanks :smile:


1) If you said he was linked to it, then yes the maths professor would win.
I was showing the mass general view with sarcasm.
2) If you said maths professor teaching future ICT students then yes he would win.

Long term maths guy.
Short term bin man to clean up the immediate mess.
Original post by Blueray2
Sarcasm fail, but read my bellow reply to see what I mean.


1) If you said he was linked to it, then yes the maths professor would win.
I was showing the mass general view with sarcasm.
2) If you said maths professor teaching future ICT students then yes he would win.

Long term maths guy.
Short term bin man to clean up the immediate mess.


/countersarcasmfail

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