Universities should take birthdays into account.
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There is clearly a problem in our education system if this many supposedly intelligent people are failing to grasp a basis social trend. It doesn't matter whether you know 100 August babies that got into Oxbridge - there is statistical evidence to back up this claim and that fact that you are a summer baby who is successful makes no difference. Unless you provide opposing evidence, it seems stupid to dismiss it on the basis of a few anecdotes. I think something should be done about it before students reach university level though. I would suggest that part of the reason those summer children fall behind is because they feel like they are not as able as their more developed peers so they lose the incentive to work in school. After they reach a similar level of ability as the autumn and winter borns, it is this that will hold them back.
Original post by Bloxorus
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22469216?ocid=socialflow_facebook_bbcnews
After reading this article and being August born myself it really does seem unfair that autumn born children have a substantial advantage over summer born children.
In my opinion the month of the year you are born in should be taken into account when applying for university.
Discuss.
Posted from TSR Mobile
After reading this article and being August born myself it really does seem unfair that autumn born children have a substantial advantage over summer born children.
In my opinion the month of the year you are born in should be taken into account when applying for university.
Discuss.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Having a late august birthday definitely disadvantaged me in primary school. However once I'd got to GCSEs I'd definitely overcome it. I'm taking my A levels now and it has absolutely no effect on my academic ability - I perform better than a lot of my friends who are older than me and it would be very unfair on them if I got extra marks. Only area where I would say it is a disadvantage is size. I'd be about average size if I were in the year below, whereas I'm certainly on the smaller side of people in my year. I definitely think being bigger could help in certain social situations. However obviously there is no way the education system can stop some people being taller than others.
Oh and also I think most 11+ grammar school tests do take into account age and adjust for the age difference.
Original post by ChemistBoy
I refute your large statistically relevant study with my hand-picked anecdotal evidence.
What have you to say to that, sir?
Obviously a summer baby.
What have you to say to that, sir?
Obviously a summer baby.
Funny that most posters on here are doing it too; counts for something.
October
Original post by tory88
The fact is whenever they were born they will receive the same level of schooling. I haven't noticed any link amongst my peers between intelligence and birthday.
I'll tell you who has noticed a link, it is (Tory favourites) the Institute for Fiscal Studies, the Institute of Education, the Department of Education, the Economic and Social Research Council, and the Nuffield Foundation.
What these divvies did, instead of conducting a straw poll among your mates, was to conduct a 5 year longitudinal study based on multiply sourced, quantifiable, objective data. They wrote their findings up here: http://www.ifs.org.uk/comms/r80.pdf
I was born in August and so was my twin brother (of course). I'm very academic, passed GCSE's with flying colours and now studying A-levels, whereas my brother failed basically everything at school. It is nothing to do with the month you were born in. Biggest load of bull s**t i've heard if you ask me
Original post by ArtGoblin There is clearly a problem in our education system if this many supposedly intelligent people are failing to grasp a basis social trend. It doesn't matter whether you know 100 August babies that got into Oxbridge - there is statistical evidence to back up this claim and that fact that you are a summer baby who is successful makes no difference. Unless you provide opposing evidence, it seems stupid to dismiss it on the basis of a few anecdotes.
I think something should be done about it before students reach university level though. I would suggest that part of the reason those summer children fall behind is because they feel like they are not as able as their more developed peers so they lose the incentive to work in school. After they reach a similar level of ability as the autumn and winter borns, it is this that will hold them back.
There is clearly a problem in our education system if this many supposedly intelligent people are failing to grasp a basis social trend. It doesn't matter whether you know 100 August babies that got into Oxbridge - there is statistical evidence to back up this claim and that fact that you are a summer baby who is successful makes no difference. Unless you provide opposing evidence, it seems stupid to dismiss it on the basis of a few anecdotes. I think something should be done about it before students reach university level though. I would suggest that part of the reason those summer children fall behind is because they feel like they are not as able as their more developed peers so they lose the incentive to work in school. After they reach a similar level of ability as the autumn and winter borns, it is this that will hold them back.
It's painful it really is. Reading through the replies I can see why people like Alan Sugar (this is sort of related don't worry) get pushed onto the general public so much, someone provides a rigorous study showing how ones childhood circumstances is liked to likely success later in life.
"Nonsense, that Alan bloke was a poor and now he's a millionaire"
I honestly can't tell if people simply don't understand, were summer born and are trying to show off, or were autumn born and are protecting their advantage.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Bloxorus
I didn't do so well in my A levels when I was 17, perhaps because I'm a summer baby..?? SO now at the age of 21 I am sitting more A levels so I can get into uni. Should I be marked down because I'm older!?!? What about people who are held back in school?
I agree with posters saying that just because you know an August born child who's succeeded, it doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else.
But the answer is not to reward people with higher grades, or bring others down - if the problem exists, that would only be masking it and undermine concepts of equal treatment. My solution would be to start school when the child is ready, or change the month boundaries.
But the answer is not to reward people with higher grades, or bring others down - if the problem exists, that would only be masking it and undermine concepts of equal treatment. My solution would be to start school when the child is ready, or change the month boundaries.
I don't think months make a significant difference, especially not when you are 17/18.
Not sure if anyone has said this already but there's a lot to read so I'll say it anyway.
Employers aren't going to take birth month into consideration, so really I don't see that it'll help. An employer is going to take whoever is the better candidate and not account for age.
Employers aren't going to take birth month into consideration, so really I don't see that it'll help. An employer is going to take whoever is the better candidate and not account for age.
I don't think when you're born makes a huge difference, because you still have the same amount of time in formal education. However, I must admit that the older students (Sep-Dec) in my year are generally more mature than the "summer babies".
On the other hand, two of the cleverest people in our year were born in August (it's a small year group), and alternately a few of the ones with birthdays in September are in the lower sets and ability groups.
To be honest, I think the difference between what the students achieve based on their month of birth is so small it's practically irrelevant. I doubt it would rarely affect their exams by a whole grade.
On the other hand, two of the cleverest people in our year were born in August (it's a small year group), and alternately a few of the ones with birthdays in September are in the lower sets and ability groups.
To be honest, I think the difference between what the students achieve based on their month of birth is so small it's practically irrelevant. I doubt it would rarely affect their exams by a whole grade.
Original post by sugar-n-spice
It's painful it really is. Reading through the replies I can see why people like Alan Sugar (this is sort of related don't worry) get pushed onto the general public so much, someone provides a rigorous study showing how ones childhood circumstances is liked to likely success later in life.
"Nonsense, that Alan bloke was a poor and now he's a millionaire"
I honestly can't tell if people simply don't understand, were summer born and are trying to show off, or were autumn born and are protecting their advantage.
"Nonsense, that Alan bloke was a poor and now he's a millionaire"
I honestly can't tell if people simply don't understand, were summer born and are trying to show off, or were autumn born and are protecting their advantage.
I hope you're not actually comparing the effects of being born a few months younger than some of your classmates to the effects of childhood circumstances
Original post by justinawe
I hope you're not actually comparing the effects of being born a few months younger than some of your classmates to the effects of childhood circumstances
Obviously not, my first post in this thread, read the bold
Original post by sugar-n-spice
I don't think that it is right to give lower grade boundaries to those born later in the year because there are other things which also affect academic performance probably more severely, but it's interesting how people are willing to let a few anecdotes disprove a whole study, so much for being scientifically minded. The latest study corroborates previous indications that being born later in the year is a disadvantage, it's like pretending the sky is purple because you don't like the colour blue.
I would need a similar study which investigates the effect of social inequality and gives the data in a way which I could compare with this.
Original post by cambio wechsel
I'll tell you who has noticed a link, it is (Tory favourites) the Institute for Fiscal Studies, the Institute of Education, the Department of Education, the Economic and Social Research Council, and the Nuffield Foundation.
What these divvies did, instead of conducting a straw poll among your mates, was to conduct a 5 year longitudinal study based on multiply sourced, quantifiable, objective data. They wrote their findings up here: http://www.ifs.org.uk/comms/r80.pdf
What these divvies did, instead of conducting a straw poll among your mates, was to conduct a 5 year longitudinal study based on multiply sourced, quantifiable, objective data. They wrote their findings up here: http://www.ifs.org.uk/comms/r80.pdf
The study I'd seen acknowledged a link at the beginning of education, but ceded that the older you got the less pronounced the link became and that there was little separating the two at university. It is my understanding that the primary data was key stage 2 exam results, which are a long way off from university.
Original post by Bloxorus
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22469216?ocid=socialflow_facebook_bbcnews
After reading this article and being August born myself it really does seem unfair that autumn born children have a substantial advantage over summer born children.
In my opinion the month of the year you are born in should be taken into account when applying for university.
Discuss.
Posted from TSR Mobile
After reading this article and being August born myself it really does seem unfair that autumn born children have a substantial advantage over summer born children.
In my opinion the month of the year you are born in should be taken into account when applying for university.
Discuss.
Posted from TSR Mobile
The biggest load of tripe I've read today. The outrage on this forum speaks volumes...
These results are interesting. I was one of the youngest in my year at school at since in Scotland you can start University after 5th year at secondary school, I was only 16 when I started my degree.
I don't think the age difference is a significant factor in terms of academic achievement but I do think at this age a year can be a big difference in terms of maturity and life experience.
I wouldn't have picked the same course a year later and perhaps would have made a more measured decision as to where and what to study.
The same thing holds true for athletes as well. The age difference at that stage of their development is a huge factor and you find that a lot of professional sports people were among the oldest in there year as this obviously gave them an advantage in terms of their physical development.
It isn't out of the question that the same could be true of academic development also.
I don't think the age difference is a significant factor in terms of academic achievement but I do think at this age a year can be a big difference in terms of maturity and life experience.
I wouldn't have picked the same course a year later and perhaps would have made a more measured decision as to where and what to study.
The same thing holds true for athletes as well. The age difference at that stage of their development is a huge factor and you find that a lot of professional sports people were among the oldest in there year as this obviously gave them an advantage in terms of their physical development.
It isn't out of the question that the same could be true of academic development also.
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